Hi Everyone,
I am interested in applying to the HMRC Graduate Program once it opens up and apart from moving up through the HMRC ranks what other career options would be open to me later on?
Is there a demand from the private sector for Ex-HMRC staff?
Is there anyone on here that is ex-HMRC and went on to start their own practise?
Any guidance would be most appreciated.
Replies (24)
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I don't think HMRC would equip you with the skills and tax knowledge required to open your practice.
But...
But you'd develop the thick skin required to be a traffic warden. And there will always be a demand for them!
Career Path
Most tax practitioners have learned their trade in large Accountancy practices. (I am an exception, having worked in HMCE (as it was then) before moving into the private sector.)
I would comment that staff morale is currently low in HMRC, and it might not be the the best option at the moment.
Is there a sizeable local Accountant with vacancies? That would give you a range of career options, and develop technical and other skills.
I have seen many HMRC employees, at different levels, jump ship and join practising firms. They have always been in demand for their technical knowledge and I can't see why that would change.
I agree however that going straight from HMRC to running one's own practice is unlikely to work.
Why would anyone ...
... want to make a living depriving others of theirs?
My view of ex-HMRC in practice is akin to how lags see coppers in clink!
Yes it's possible but 4 years is not a long time to develop the contacts with clients and work referrers to form the basis of a viable practice. Why not take it a stage at a time? You might love it at HMRC and rise to the top there. Or you might jump ship into private practice and rise to become senior partner of a large firm.
A word of warning
I was attracted by the bright lights of the Civil Service when I was 19 back in 1974. They were advertising Executive Officer jobs using pictures of dynamic looking people standing next to cars as if they were going somewhere.
So I sat through the exacting interviews on my politics etc. Then they gave me a mind blowingly boring job. When I asked for a change a year later I got an even more tedious one. My bosses' attitude to making decisions was - what did we do last year?
There wasn't an ounce of original thought to be had. I was surrounded by very bright people of my own age who were bored to tears, but who had no ambition and seemed destined to spend their days there. So I got a job in commerce as a trainee accountant. My leaving card from the Civil Service was signed by the "escape society". Lovely people though they were, it was stifling not being encouraged to use any initiative.
My friends from the Civil Service (all now retired on large pensions) tell me that things tightened up since I left and that people are expected to use their initiative now.
All I can say looking at HMRC from the outside is that anyone with initiative has left to join an accountancy practice, leaving the also rans doing an impossible job with unreasonable demands placed on them by the nitwits who run the show.
Why not start off in private practice and keep any eye out in case HMRC starts recruiting people who are allowed to think for themselves. (Don't hold your breath on this one).
I would be slightly more positive
Having looked at the website re the graduate programme they appear to be indicating that the trainee would be put through professional exams, albeit they do not seem to state which.
In addition the minimum starting salary at circa £27k possibly rising to near £40k during the four year training period and if successful then a salary of nearly £47k thereafter does not look that bad. (graduate at say 22, may be on £47k by age 26)
The graduate entry programme is at a level above Executive Officer (used to be Tax Officer Higher Grade in HMRC in the 1980s when I applied but did not join) so not sure how "boring" the programme would be.
I would do a bit more digging about the actual qualifications that would be on offer before rejecting the idea.
Surely you jest
In addition the minimum starting salary at circa £27k possibly rising to near £40k during the four year training period and if successful then a salary of nearly £47k thereafter does not look that bad. (graduate at say 22, may be on £47k by age 26)
"Does not look that bad". I hope that's sarcasm... not many practices will take school leavers/graduates and pay them anything like that. I'd watch paint dry for £47k... (in fact at 22 I'd have watched paint dry for £27k).
Cutting the mustard ?
You should apply for the Fast Stream. If you get accepted for that at HMT or HMRC then you'll be offered really stretching opportunities (like working on new tax laws/policies) that wont be available outside. And being a Faster Streamer will open doors outside that may have been closed before.
.
Sheesh they let "freshouts" lose on working on new tax laws and policies?
That perhaps explains a huge amount.
Practise -v- Practice
A great many HMRC staff eventually join the other side where they are always in demand, but relatively few start their own practices, (Please get the spelling right if you're thinking of going into business - you've repeatedly used the verb 'practise' when your context required the noun 'practice')
Though they undergo rigorous training and face stiff examinations, HMRC staff don't generally end up with recognised chartered qualifications and have to undertake farther training and exams if they want to progress in the outside world.
Farther -v- Further
FARTHER - (Adverb) 1) to or at a greater distance in space or time; 2) in addition;
- (Adjective) 3) more distant or remote in space or time; 4) additional.
Admittedly, 'farther' is more commonly used in its literal sense of 'more far', but as the above extract from Collins Dictionary confirms, it's equally legitimate in the figurative sense to mean 'additional'. So what's the problem?
I think it depends on your subject area and University
I think salary expectations post University are influenced by both subject area and the calibre of the institution you attended.
A fair number of graduates from "top 20" universities (If you trust the Times etc lists) start at around the £25k mark even outwith London. My son (age 22) has just left an old Scottish University and started in July as a software developer with a large employer at £25k plus benefits. His former flatmate, who graduated last year, also Computer Science, started on £25k last year with a different company and I have heard is now earning circa £45k age 23; these salaries are in Scotland not London.
I maybe phrased things poorly, the £47k is AFTER completing the 4 years training not as a graduate entrant and the scheme appears to not be open to school leavers just to graduates; whilst is states minimum 2:2, I suspect few without a strong 2:1 will get selected.
Go for it
I know somebody who is currently on the graduate program. He is enjoying it and all his study leave is paid. In house training is excellent and exam fees are all paid for.
He is doing the CTA exams as well as the internal exams.
You will be a very attractive proposition for many accountancy practices and then who knows.
I got rejected
I planned to join HMRC some time ago. Unfortunately despite ACA/CTA I don't hold a degree and so they would not even consider my application.
I often think it would be lovely to be on the other side. It would be so easy. Never wrong. Unaccountable. Lovely.
Be wary about the advice here. Most of them have never passed an exam or have any qualifications. They claim it would be "so easy" to work in HMRC. At HMRC you will have proper training and a good grounding to further your career with a proper professional accounting firm. The experience you gain with HMRC will be invaluable.
Starting with HMRC
Admittedly a while ago since I was at HMCE, but it was a good start into tax , and I started on a fast track programme too, with twelve others of similar age (mid twenties) . I was not a graduate but I had had 6 six years working experience as a manager in a large company, so I was treated as being at the same level.
We were all, with the exception of one, headhunted after finishing exams to go out to accountancy firms, and our experience working for the `other side' was seen as invaluable. 29 years later when I tell clients that I am ex Inland Revenue it is still seen as an asset. I am still in practice, but still working for other firms as well as running my own; I find the environment working for other people is less isolating, and ideas come better when you can discuss the cases. I did not start my own practice until I had been in tax for twelve years, and even then had a lot to learn about running your own business. Don`t rush in, and good luck!