How do you file your book-keeping records?

How do you file your book-keeping records?

Didn't find your answer?

I thought I'd throw this question out and hopefully get some good responses back.

I just wondered, if you do book-keeping for clients, how you filed it?

Let's say you do the VAT for the client - do you file each quarter separately, say in a lever arch file?  Which order - paid order if it's cash accounting or numberical order whichever VAT scheme you run?

How about purchases invoices - paid filed in a lever arch file in order of payment?  Order of supplier?

How about outstanding sales/purchase invoices - lever arch file in name order?  A-Z file?

I just want to get a consistent filing system for all my book-keeping clients - and of course be able to teach it as well!

All comments, as ever, gratefully received.

Replies (59)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By cparker87
30th Aug 2012 18:01

Incredibly frustrating

Whilst enduring the nightmare of auditing as a junior one of the most hated and frustrating areas was the accounts department's filing system of whatever company I had the misfortune to visit.

I hated them. Alphabetical, date paid, date received, paid unpaid and other variations thereof.

In my opinion I think the above are a nonsense and are attempting to do the work the accounts package should do!

My adopted and recommended method is simple. File in numerical order. Allocate each received purchase invoice an internal serial reference number (sales side should do this as a matter of course) and use that as its identifying number on your accounting system. Any issues with a sale or purchase, check the system, get the number, pull it out of the file - easy!

I reckon factors such as what VAT Return it went on, when it was paid, what date it was received should be dealt with in the accounting records.

Thanks (3)
Replying to bigdaddy:
Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
04th Sep 2012 09:15

PL filed in sequence of received invoices

cparker87 wrote:

Whilst enduring the nightmare of auditing as a junior one of the most hated and frustrating areas was the accounts department's filing system of whatever company I had the misfortune to visit.

I hated them. Alphabetical, date paid, date received, paid unpaid and other variations thereof.

In my opinion I think the above are a nonsense and are attempting to do the work the accounts package should do!

My adopted and recommended method is simple. File in numerical order. Allocate each received purchase invoice an internal serial reference number (sales side should do this as a matter of course) and use that as its identifying number on your accounting system. Any issues with a sale or purchase, check the system, get the number, pull it out of the file - easy!

I reckon factors such as what VAT Return it went on, when it was paid, what date it was received should be dealt with in the accounting records.

 

Exactly. One file only for all purchase invoices, filed at the point of receipt with a unique number attached, indexed by that number. Verification and reconciliation becomes easy-peasy, and the accounting system tells you where to look when you want to find an original document. The accounting system is the place for aged creditors, payment lists etc. Nothing to stop a diligent manager from referring to the originals (and marking the originals as paid) when signing off payment because they're so easy to find.

The other trick an accountant showed me (you probably all know this one) is to file them in reverse order in the lever arch, ie newest at the top. That makes the filing task trivial, and makes no difference to finding them. Start a new file as often as necessary and label the files with the sequence numbers.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Wanderer:
avatar
By User deleted
04th Sep 2012 09:52

Depends ...

TomMcClelland] [quote=cparker87 wrote:

 

Exactly. One file only for all purchase invoices, filed at the point of receipt with a unique number attached, indexed by that number. Verification and reconciliation becomes easy-peasy, and the accounting system tells you where to look when you want to find an original document. The accounting system is the place for aged creditors, payment lists etc. Nothing to stop a diligent manager from referring to the originals (and marking the originals as paid) when signing off payment because they're so easy to find.

The other trick an accountant showed me (you probably all know this one) is to file them in reverse order in the lever arch, ie newest at the top. That makes the filing task trivial, and makes no difference to finding them. Start a new file as often as necessary and label the files with the sequence numbers.

... if you are keeping the books for you or for the client.

As has been said, in a busy business, much easier to flick through all invoices from one supplier that are all together, rather than having to go back and forwards to the system to find the reference numbers, and flick back and forwrds to the file to find the invoice (or risk being shot by the environmentalists and print the list out (not to mention increasing costs in terms or ink and paper). Then, if you have to pull a batch to copy, you have the hassle of refiling sequentially again afterwards.

I think any business big enough to use the sequential system should have the invoices scanned so the need to go to hard copy is minimal (assumig the hardcopy is not shredded once scanned).

Of course, using internal reference makes life harder when a supplier makes a query based on their invoice number. Although you can enter the invoice number as an additional reference, that is more keying, plus, in SAGE at least, many preview pages don't show the additional reference field!

I personally do not hold with one size fits all, each business should have its system tailored to balance the needs of the business with the needs of the accountant. I think accountants or bookkeepers that impose a system on a client to fit their needs are not best meeting the needs of the client. What works for the accountant is in respect of backroom compliance work, and the day to day coal face needs of the businees are paramount, not the needs of the accountant/bookkeeper, and the system should be tailored around the businesses needs accordingly.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By taxhound
30th Aug 2012 18:39

agree with cparker

Alphabetical filing drives me crackers.

I use VT.  For purchase invoices I write the number allocated by VT onto the invoice and file in numerical order.

For items not entered via the purchase ledger, I file using the payment reference number that VT gives the payment (and yes, there are gaps in the numbering, eg when a batch of purchase invoices is paid, or when salaries are paid there will be nothing in my file for this entry, although it can obviously be checked elsewhere).

This takes less time than alphabetical filing and I find it easiest to find documents this way.

 

Thanks (1)
By petersaxton
30th Aug 2012 20:04

Alphabetical for me for supplier invoices

I prefer alphabetical filing for supplier invoices because so many queries are supplier based and it's good to have all the invoices together.

Sales invoices I file by invoice number. There doesn't seem the same number of queries relating to multiple sales invoices.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Cheshire:
avatar
By Witch-Queen
31st Aug 2012 16:57

Filing

petersaxton wrote:

I prefer alphabetical filing for supplier invoices because so many queries are supplier based and it's good to have all the invoices together.

Sales invoices I file by invoice number. There doesn't seem the same number of queries relating to multiple sales invoices.

I totally agree with Peter, this is the easiest way to find anything in the future should there be a querie.

I despair of people who allocate each document a number then file in that order. It is impossible to quickly lay your hands on something later without first interrogating your computerised accounts for that reference. What a waste of time.

I also file supplier invoices alphabetically, with each seperate suppliers invoices in date order, with statements in front of their invoices for the year. You can then find anything you might need in seconds. I file sales in invoice number order and remittances alphabetically. Petty cash and credit card receipts are filed in strict date order.

I have been through several VAT spot checks with clients and the inspector has always complimented the filing and the speed at which anything they want to see can be found

 

Thanks (3)
none
By Tailored_Accountancy
30th Aug 2012 21:01

Agree with cparker and taxhound
We used to file alphabetically or in date order but this just gets out if hand with lots of purchase invoices.

We now allocate a "P" number to each invoice entered or cash payment made (started at "P1"), and pass back full A4 lever arch files to the client at periodic intervals. We then have a divided file for bank statements, vat returns, payroll, customer invoices etc

Sarah

Thanks (2)
Giraffe
By Luke
30th Aug 2012 21:18

Exactly the same as tailoredaccountancy
We use P numbers too. We use VT and use the P number in the description. It is always easy to find a queries invoice.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By jaybee661
30th Aug 2012 21:24

Thanks to everyone so far...

... so do you have one lever arch file per year, per quarter or just until one gets full?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Cardigan
30th Aug 2012 22:06

Similar to above

If I am posting invoices in bulk, I gather all that month's invoices together and put them in supplier alphabetical order. The reason I do this is to spot duplicates or obvious errors. If there is a statement, I put that in front of the invoices. The alpha order goes from the back to the front of the file as that is the order I input the invoices into the accounting package. I number the invoices in the top right hand corner in red starting from 1, 2, 3 etc. (I don't restart the numbering at the new year. I just keep going.)

I then put a coloured divider at the end of that month and start the process again. If an invoice arrives late, say a July invoice arrives in Aug, I will file it with the Aug invoices. It's not an exact science but the dividers help if you are looking for an invoice.

I keep going with the same lever-arch until it gets too full.

Some exceptions:

If there are a lot of invoices or I get the invoices sporadically, then I will file them as a I get them and number them as above.

If it is a small client, I file them according to the VAT period rather than per month.

This is the system I was taught all those years ago on my first week as a trainee accountant and it was the most useful piece of training I got.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By girlofwight
30th Aug 2012 22:46

Numbers
Like cparker and taxhound, I prefer a internal reference number, and file in that order.

Sales invoices by their own number.

Purchase invoices and odds and ends, including misc income, on a simple start at 1 numbering system.

Petty cash summarised once or month or quarter, and the summary gets a place in the number system.

These days everything is scanned, sometimes individually, sometimes in small batches, and the scanned PDF is prefixed by said number.

Simples....

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
31st Aug 2012 00:06

Files and numbers

"so do you have one lever arch file per year, per quarter or just until one gets full?"

I'd have one or more per year.

I don't put numbers on supplier invoices so that makes up for the time spent filing alphabetically.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Healthpay
31st Aug 2012 09:14

Paper?

I scan everything and rely on the software to support finding things, then chuck everything in a big box.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Matthew Shaw:
avatar
By Cloudcounter
31st Aug 2012 09:56

Almost the same

woodworm wrote:

I scan everything and rely on the software to support finding things, then chuck everything in a big box.

I scan everything and rely on the software to support finding things, then chuck everything in a big bin

 

 

Thanks (1)
Replying to Matthew Shaw:
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
31st Aug 2012 11:55

Your Clients needs our very different to Practices Need

Hi 

I think you need to ask your client that you are preparing your books for.   Every client finds different ways useful.   

The main point is that you find a system that suits you both, other wise a client can become very annoyed when their filing system does not allow them to work easily with it. 

I agree with Peter for most clients.  The majority of  queries for business are Supplier based. I also keep a Accounts file by month includes all compliance work , bank recs, Vat Returns , Payroll Journals and the monthly management accounts .

  So to file in a number order is not helpful to most businesses.  I know it is for us, but we need to remember the most important point is that the client can use and it is not delaying their administration department.  

I think you have to remember that it is your client that is using the system all year around, so the filing system must suit the type of queries that business receives as it is not always the same for every business. We have a discussion with each client prior to setting up the filling system. It also depends on the Volume of paperwork how workable a system maybe.

  Some we file in  the Financial year Suppliers A to Z and in strict date order for that Financial year and numeric order for Sales

We very rarely file using a number added and this is  not useable for most businesses.  Any queries are mostly by supplier  date and Invoice Number, which is inputted to our bookkeeping system, putting a another number on that the majority of users  will not use. To me that is double work , when is so easy with computers now to put their supplier activity or any activity in Date, Supplier , highest value extra or what ever criteria you want to set.  For petty cash yes it is worth developing a number system. 

The reality in business most  will only scan or PDF anything that they regard as extremely important.    They want to spend the time on correct entry to a accounts system to produce accurate P& L for decision making , then spending the time scanning. 

 

Kind Regards Sarah Douglas Douglas Accountancy and Bookkeeping Services Glasgow      

 

Thanks (1)
By ShirleyM
31st Aug 2012 09:19

@woodworm

You sound like some of our clients ... except they don't bother with the scanning!

Thanks (1)
By petersaxton
31st Aug 2012 09:29

So small

The bookkeeping work I do is so small that it's not worth the hassle of scanning or having sophisticated systems for file retrieval.

I scan if I have to email something but usually I will just file paper.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By jaybee661
31st Aug 2012 12:24

I must admit...

... it's really for US doing the book-keeping for clients, so 99% of the time the client will call us to request a copy of an invoice or to look into something for them...

Thanks (0)
Replying to Matthew Shaw:
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
31st Aug 2012 12:46

Bookkeeping In House

Hi Jaybee 

I know want you mean, it does depend on the volume of paperwork.  I will keep a quarter for  some clients files as it would take up way to much space so they do take have to come and get the paperwork , hence what I meant the system needs to work for both. 

Kind Regards Sarah Douglas Douglas Accountancy and Bookkeeping Services Glasgow 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By jaybee661
31st Aug 2012 15:55

... also no numbering system on Xero...

... as brilliant as Xero is, it doesn't give a 'number' to each transaction so I guess filing them in number order, as suggested earlier, can't really work...

Thanks (0)
By ShirleyM
31st Aug 2012 16:07

@jaybee

You can still number the documents yourself and enter the number into part of the description.

In the bad old days when we used Sage we used to do that, rather than use the software generated transaction numbers, because Sage assigned new transaction numbers when you archived off old years.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By chatman
01st Sep 2012 10:52

Scan them all

I scan everything and bin the originals.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By zebaa
01st Sep 2012 13:14

Scan & bin for me too. Saves so much space, just have to  keep multiple backups, on at least two systems ( ie cloud & device). 

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
01st Sep 2012 14:14

Permission?

Do you get the clients permission?

Thanks (0)
Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
avatar
By chatman
01st Sep 2012 19:32

Client's permission for destruction of records

petersaxton wrote:

Do you get the clients permission?

Yes. Wouldn't dare otherwise.

Thanks (0)
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
03rd Sep 2012 00:47

Scan and Bin

Hi 

Whilst I have no problem with Scanning , other then it is a pain and it takes up billable time.  I will scan if a client is giving me bother though.  

I would question like Peter, do you have the clients permission to scan and bin.   I would be pretty annoyed as a client if you did that to my records. I admit I may be misunderstanding you though.

I must admit I hate trawling through emails , online accounts for invoices , scans .  I like the original paperwork. To this day I have not come in to contact with an accounts department that accounts are right when using this system .  Nine times out of 10 items are missing when they are trying to use scan systems.  It is alright for a few invoices but not large  volumes.  

Also scanning to me is just all part of same thing as suppliers emailing you an invoice.  Lets be honest it is the best excuse for not paying sorry I did not receive your email, and no I will never acknowledge a email receipt from someone it just annoys me as I may not read it in detail at that point .

I send by clients PDF invoices but then I end up sending the original on request from the client. The PDF invoice just lets them know the invoice is coming 

Emailing invoices  is basically just asking your client to cover the print and cost of the paper for your invoice.  Not everyone likes viewing everything on screen.  It has never sat well be me printing off one of my suppliers invoices and I am covering the cost. They should should give me a discount at the bottom if I agree to do the printing.  

Why not,  the likes of BT and O2 do for example if you take online accounts.

What I am trying to say is I am not totally convinced by scanning , unless you have the money to implement an expensive , very fast system to use. 

Kindest Regards Sarah Douglas Accountancy and Bookkeeping Services Glasgow  

 

 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By jaybee661
01st Sep 2012 19:14

I am not a fan of scanning either...

... mainly because a client often asks for things like previous meter readings on a gas bill - unless you've scanned all 7 pages or so of each gas bill you're not going to have it... it doesn't sit well with me either the thought of shredding all my client's paperwork.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Healthpay
01st Sep 2012 19:21

7 pages/

Why not scan all 7 pages! I always do...

Thanks (0)
avatar
By zebaa
02nd Sep 2012 20:13

permission - yes

In answer to the question about permission, the answer is yes. And yes to all 7 pages too. Perhaps one day I will come across someone who desires paper records so much they will be happy to pay the extra so they can lovingly store them. Or maybe not.  

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Cloudcounter
02nd Sep 2012 22:27

We have

the client's permssion to scan

the client's permission to shred

a client who is quite content, as we are, to work from pdf  scans

no filing cabinets

Scanning isn't for everybody, but just because you don't like it don't decry it for everybody else.

The main client for whom we scan gets about 1000 invoices per month, for two small shops.  If we didn't scan, there would be serious issues with storing the volume of paper.  He's delighted to get a dvd once every six months instead of  reans if unwanted paper

And no we don't have an expensive or very fast system, nor do we waste loads of chargeable time scanning.  Nor do we have closed minds

Thanks (2)
By petersaxton
02nd Sep 2012 23:34

Do you mean Sarah?

"Scanning isn't for everybody, but just because you don't like it don't decry it for everybody else."

"Nor do we have closed minds"

I think Sarah is showing that she thinks about the practical problems with scanning.

I do very little bookkeeping but whenever I have done I have found that clients have not been systematic at naming scans and splitting scans. I have printed scans to ensure I have my records available for fast access while clients keep the originals. If there is a problem with quantities I would suggest that a heavy duty scanning solution should be found. I would be more than happy to accept scans that have been properly scanned and named. If they were a jumble I would prefer to print the individual documents.

It is important to think about information retrieval. Too many people think that as long as information is in the accounts that is all that matters.

Thanks (1)
Replying to michaelblake:
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
03rd Sep 2012 15:11

It is not about having a closed mind

Hi 

I have no issue about whether companies what to scan or not.  But is must be done  well so that the client can use it easily for queries  and our practice can use it quickly and easily  to produce Management and Final accounts. I do invoice clients for the time on agreement as I believe it does take time to do this well.  

 Not all invoices are  A4 paper as that can be done reasonable quick,  especially catering invoices they never seem to be the same size .  Some are tiny and others are different shapes .  These are the problems I am talking about as people just leave items out because their not as easy as straight forward A4 . An  example is  a scrappy delivery note with important notes written on it about short deliveries, hence the reason for why an invoice remains unpaid.   It might not be important for us. but it is essential for some clients and they may only have the time to scribble something down and then move on.  Yes it does happen because I have completed many a  spot check on clients to see  if their scanning systems are working.    Peter has pretty much raised my point though, if and when I do scan I keep it in great detail and systematic order.   

I certainly do not have a closed mind and I am sorry you have read it that way and felt the need to comment about me having a closed mind.  It is just a difference of opinion.  It was not attack on any practice.   I was just repeating what clients have said out loud about receiving PDF invoices. Hence one of the reasons for not been convinced.    I was not decrying it for everyone else.  Though I do admit  I  do not enjoy  trawling through info on screen it gives me a headache .   I was mentioning the problems that can sometimes happen.   I do scan for some clients but mainly the ones who do not do much retrieval.

But like every thing I do not believe one system fits all  and every client needs to be look at differently. 

Of course it will suit some clients but not all.  As Peter mention about retrieval some of my clients need to look at the invoices on regular basis and this would take longer if the information is scanned by month  as this is not the way they deal with queries. 

I believe that if you want a good system, where is easy to get information, then it must be done well and it does take time.   

Also not everyone likes to view everything on screen.   I think there are many people who do and many that do not . Hence why I have no one uniformed way for all my clients.   They are always offered all options .

 

Kind Regards Sarah Douglas Douglas Accountancy and Bookkeeping Services Glasgow 

 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
03rd Sep 2012 16:00

I generally prefer ...

... alphabetical, as has been said, much easier to find when client 1 calls up and you are in the middle of something (sods law you are halfway through a complicated journal for client 2 and don't want to have to come out to look at a different clients records) and generally query goes like ... we bought X widgets from A Ltd a few months ago, how much did we pay for them? Much easier to thumb through all the A ltd invoices for a period if all together, rather than trial and error interogating the bookkeeping system hoping you find the right invoice (whether scanned copy of hard copy)!

yes, I know some scanning will reference by OCR and you should be able to search for description or part number, but I am with Peter and as a one man outfit, the scanning time outweighs the filing time, especially if you give the client a couple of A-Z expanding files to put the invoices in so they come pretty much ready sorted.

Obviously, if a large client with hundreds of invoices an internal reference may be easier, although most of this ilk will have in house bookkeeping.

That said, my own invoices I reference year/month/sequential number - eg 12/09/001 - but I don't have many!

 

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
04th Sep 2012 08:44

Why include part of date in invoice number?

"That said, my own invoices I reference year/month/sequential number - eg 12/09/001 - but I don't have many!"

I hate that. Invoices have dates so i prefer proper sequential numbering.

I know people don't like to start with invoice number 1 when starting their business in case people realise how new they are but I'm proud to say I started with 1 and I'm approaching 2000 invoices.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
04th Sep 2012 09:16

Peter ...

... I was talking about supplier invoices!

I just post them as they come in, I have few and get 3 or four years in one file, just makes it easier to find them in a hurry, as most of my invoices are monthly ones from the same suppliers it is easier to see my reference than look for the printed date which is never in a standard position.

I would never file sales invoices other than sequentially, and I only really keep them for statutory purposes and for ACCA, I can't recall ever having to go to the sales invoice file in all my years of running my practice. If I want to look at an individual client there is a saved copy in their folder on the computer, or a hardcopy on their file.

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
04th Sep 2012 09:55

 

 

"... I was talking about supplier invoices!"

Sorry.

"I would never file sales invoices other than sequentially, and I only really keep them for statutory purposes and for ACCA, I can't recall ever having to go to the sales invoice file in all my years of running my practice. If I want to look at an individual client there is a saved copy in their folder on the computer, or a hardcopy on their file."

I file sales invoices together. I prepare them in Excel and save a pfd. I give the filename  the invoice number then the client name.

With my own accounts I keep it as simple as possible.

I keep a spreadsheet of the up to date debtors position and I keep a list of sales invoices on the side of Excel with the payment dates along the top and the amounts against the individual invoices. On the right I add the invoice number and take of payments received. This should agree back to my list of debtors.

With my expenses I have a drawer for each VAT quarter and I put every expense document in there. When I do my VAT return I get my sales invoice list from above and split the expenses into months and do an analysed spreadsheet for each month.

I used these analysed spreadsheets and sales invoice lists for my year end accounts.

I also keep invoices latest on top for ease of filing. Most clients don't seem to understand that. If they do they take it to extremes - they only seem to file by the first letter of the alphabet. If they file an invoice from SAXTON and then get an invoice from SMITH they will put it on top which negates the usefulness of filing "alphabetically".

Thanks (0)
avatar
By chatman
04th Sep 2012 10:37

My attempt to convert you to scanning

I send all client purchase invoices to Receipt Bank (www.receipt-bank.com ) in one of their pre-addressed, pre-paid, extra tough plastic bags. Receipt Bank scans them all into a single OCRd (and therefore searchable) pdf file, giving each one a reference number, and lists them all in a spreadsheet with all relevant details, including an attempt at expense-type (you can improve their attempts after their first go), referenced back to the relevant pages of the pdf file.

The spreadsheet can obviously be imported into any bookkeeping programme that supports transactions import, or you can import the transactions directly to Xero, Kashflow and others directly from Receipt Bank's site.

I just sent them 82 invoices from a gas fitter, that looked like they had been stored on the floor of the van for a year. The hardest bit was unscrewing and unsticking them to get them into the pre-paid bag to send them off. I was charged about £25.

Normally, I would get Receipt Bank to send the bag direct to the client, eliminating me from the risky Royal Mail portion of the process. The client can then choose whether to trust standard post or pay the extra for Special Delivery.

Thanks (1)
7om
By Tom 7000
04th Sep 2012 11:47

What the first contributor said ( cparker87). Anything else is nonesense, he wins the prize today

Thanks (0)
Replying to fawltybasil2575:
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Sep 2012 12:19

All things need to be considered.

Tom 7000 wrote:

What the first contributor said ( cparker87). Anything else is nonesense, he wins the prize today

 

I am not sure I agree with this statement.  It does not take into consideration your clients usage of the paperwork .  A number system would not be helpful to most of my clients who use their paperwork frequently.  It would suit 1 or 2 who have little need to go to the paperwork.  This is why I think you should judge on a client to client basis. 

If a supplier rings up they are not going to know your internal number system .  They will always use their invoice number for a query. It is just double work for your clients to keep another number when they also have to keep the invoice number as that is the number all enquiries will use. 

If a client has to do do a lot of Creditors Reconciliation they want to see the real invoice number to match to the suppliers otherwise you could be all day completing a creditors reconciliation in a busy office because all your numbers are different to theirs. 

Its a real bug bearer of mine if I find clients or not completing their creditors recs as you just know the Profit and Loss will be wrong

 

Kind Regards Sarah Douglas Douglas Accountancy and Bookkeeping Services Glasgow

 

 

 

Thanks (0)
Replying to Gone Sailing:
avatar
By cparker87
04th Sep 2012 13:26

.

sarah douglas wrote:

Tom 7000 wrote:

What the first contributor said ( cparker87). Anything else is nonesense, he wins the prize today

 

I am not sure I agree with this statement.  It does not take into consideration your clients usage of the paperwork .  A number system would not be helpful to most of my clients who use their paperwork frequently.  It would suit 1 or 2 who have little need to go to the paperwork.  This is why I think you should judge on a client to client basis. 

If a supplier rings up they are not going to know your internal number system .  They will always use their invoice number for a query. It is just double work for your clients to keep another number when they also have to keep the invoice number as that is the number all enquiries will use. 

If a client has to do do a lot of Creditors Reconciliation they want to see the real invoice number to match to the suppliers otherwise you could be all day completing a creditors reconciliation in a busy office because all your numbers are different to theirs. 

Its a real bug bearer of mine if I find clients or not completing their creditors recs as you just know the Profit and Loss will be wrong

 

Kind Regards Sarah Douglas Douglas Accountancy and Bookkeeping Services Glasgow

 

 

 

 

The accounting system should adequately deal with external references and internal references, after all it is likely to only be an extra field in a database which most accounts packages are based on. This eliminates the issue you stated regarding Creditors Reconciliations.

Even if it doesn't you can ask for date and amount to identify the entry on the system and then refer to the file.

Thanks (0)
Replying to fawltybasil2575:
avatar
By chatman
04th Sep 2012 12:27

Oohh!

Tom 7000 wrote:
Anything else is nonesense
Thanks (0)
avatar
By Rod Wilson
04th Sep 2012 11:47

EcoOffice

We outsource our bookkeeping to EcoOffice and have all documents scanned by a third party.  The documents are indexed and uploaded electronically into EcoOffice.  Each document is then linked to the corresponding transaction and when you drill down to the transaction you can drill down one further level to the document that generated the transaction.  If the document isn't on our system it is automatically downloaded from the cloud.  The cost of scanning, indexing and providing individual pdf's of each document is 4 pence per document.  EcoOffice is a Cloud based system that is accessed by us and our clients.  The bookkeeping cost is very reasonable as it is carried out in the Philippines.  We not only use this for our clients we also use it for our own accounts preparation.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Nigel Wulcko:
avatar
By chatman
04th Sep 2012 12:28

EcoOffice

Rod Wilson wrote:
EcoOffice

Sounds worth a look.

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
04th Sep 2012 12:34

Is somebody else using Tom's account to discredit him?

It certainly doesn't seem a very logical thing to say.

Thanks (3)
Replying to UPEco:
avatar
By chatman
04th Sep 2012 12:49

Hacker Alert.

petersaxton wrote:

Is somebody else using Tom's account to discredit him?

It certainly doesn't seem a very logical thing to say.

Yes, and it looks like they are still doing it at 12:44pm

Thanks (1)
7om
By Tom 7000
04th Sep 2012 12:44

Nope thats me and I am right and I know I am

 

The suplier calls about their  invoice no 238976

straight onto their account on the pc there it is entered with our ref no 67890

on the shelf with 200 files all in numerical order, you have it in 10 seconds.

 

If you dont do this then every time you file something you have to find a file put it in, the file grows it needs more space, if its by supplier and by date order you have to still mess about 

Its all about speed....

scanning and drilling downs good works the same but I would still file and keep originals in numerical order, for the vat man.

Thanks (1)
Torben Halvorses owner of PaperLess Document Management for Sage
By torbenhalvorsen
04th Sep 2012 14:12

Filing bookeeping records

Thanks Jaybee for starting the conversation off, it is interesting to see how clients paperwork is dealt with in a practical way.

Reading through the various comments, here are some PaperLess ideas on the subject:

Filing an electronic document image linked to the transaction record in your accounting system means that you have no need to worry about what order the paper is filed in a lever arch file. So creating the transaction in PaperLess from the electronic document image and posting it directly into your accounting system such as Sage 50 Accounts saves time, no filing needed.

You can view the transaction and the document image together in PaperLess and search the PaperLess Accounting Archive by multiple methods such as date, invoice number, amount, customer, supplier, ledger account etc... No filing order to worry about, just find what you are looking for in seconds.

Open a document image up directly from the transaction line in your accounting system.

Your client can view the document images and transactions online too. Your client never needs to ask you for a document again.

PaperLess Automatic Invoice Recognition will reduce manual data entry by reading the invoices and creating the transaction based on what is read. Better still, PaperLess will check to see if the document is a duplicate invoice (based on invoice number) so you waste less time on client you give you the paperwork twice, or three times.

Expense Claims/Petty Cash that may have loads of small receipts are dealt with easily as they appear as one document with multiple pages attached to the transaction voucher in your accounting system. No need to worry about bulging lever arch files.

Using PaperLess Remote Access your clients can scan and upload documents to you securely OR use the same process to ahve your clients send all documents to a Digital Office who will handle the paperwork uploading to PaperLess and letting you get on with the accounts.

If your clients need to reconcile a statement they can do it via the Internet using PaperLess viewing the transaction with the document image in by supplier in the PaperLess Accounting Archive.

Scan in delivery notes or any type of business paperwork, PaperLess can handle all types of business documents including contracts, leases HR docs etc....Filing the document image is very easy in PaperLess and because you can find the document in multiple ways there is much less to worry about your client being unable to file alphabetically with any consistency for instance.

The ideas are based on using PaperLess in your practice to help you save time, increase profit and reduce risk; and I hope they give you some ideas of what can be achieved using technology that is designed for the purpose.

Phil

Accounting the PaperLess way™

 

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
04th Sep 2012 14:20

How often?

How often does a supplier phone about an invoice number unless it's to chase payment? Don't you keep paid invoices and unpaid invoices in a different file?

How do suppliers get paid? Does the cheque signatory want to see the supplier invoices?

What about a query about the type of expense? Somebody wants to review telephone expenses - how do they get the invoices? Would it be better if they were all filed under BT?

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
04th Sep 2012 14:27

FreeAgent

With FreeAgent you can scan the supplier invoice and upload it to attach to the posting which makes things very easy if the invoices are easy to scan.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Cloudcounter
04th Sep 2012 14:57

It takes something really exciting

to get a discussion going on Accounting Web!!

 

"Which order do you use to file bits of paper?"

Up to 50 already!  :-))

Thanks (1)

Pages