How simple is it?

How simple is it?

Didn't find your answer?

I sent two emails to a client. One had attached the draft company accounts and tax computations and the other had attached the 

draft personal tax return and computations.

In the emails I said:

"I have attached the accounts and tax documents.

Please read the documents. If you have any questions please let me know. If you are happy for the accounts and tax returns to be submitted to Companies House and HMRC please give me permission to submit online."

and 

"I have attached your personal tax return and tax computations.

Can you read the documents and if you are happy for me to submit the tax return online please let me know."

I got one email back replying to my personal tax email saying: "Looks fine".

This morning I phone the client and asked if he had a chance to the look at the accounts. He said he'd sent me an email. I had to point out an email replying to an email about personal tax wouldn't be sufficient evidence that he'd agreed to the accounts as well!  

Replies (24)

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By accountsdragon
13th Aug 2014 09:45

And

If you'd put it all in one email, he would have found that too much at once!

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By ShirleyM
13th Aug 2014 10:08

You did well, Peter

They read one of the emails, which is quite good for some clients. :)

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By User deleted
13th Aug 2014 10:10

Be grateful you got one email back - some clients will wait til you chase them and then go 'oh yes, they're fine, didn't I tell you?' ('No you moron, if you had I wouldn't be wasting my time chasing you!!!!')

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None
By FCExtraordinaire
13th Aug 2014 10:14

Psychic

We are also psychic,  didn't you know....

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Me!
By nigelburge
13th Aug 2014 10:23

But....

you don't really expect a client to actually read what you write to them, do you?

Now you are just being silly!!

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By jimmercy
13th Aug 2014 10:30

I have

a client, she is lovely but she never seems to read beyond the first sentence or line of an email. Solution, if I have more than 1 question I will send 1 email per question - it works!

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By The Innkeeper
13th Aug 2014 10:44

A prime candidate

for the plonkermeter !!!!!!!

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
13th Aug 2014 11:17

The client is always right

"If you are happy for the accounts and tax returns to be submitted to Companies House and HMRC ..."

"... if you are happy for me to submit the tax return online please let me know."

No - he is not "happy" to submit a tax return and crystallise a tax liability.  As you have phrased your questions as a conditional "if you are happy" and as he is not happy, he is right not to reply. :¬)

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Universe
By SteveOH
13th Aug 2014 11:41

Yes, I've had those "Looks fine" emails

I get all my accounts, Tax Returns etc electronically approved using IRIS OpenSpace. But I STILL get the occasional email saying "Yes, all ok".

I then have to send them another email saying "Look you ar****le, why don't you do what I asked the first time, follow the link in the email from IRIS and tick the box that says that you have approved the Return." Or words to that effect :)

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By vince8
13th Aug 2014 11:43

If I was a client

I would not approve (or sign) a draft tax return.

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Universe
By SteveOH
13th Aug 2014 11:46

@jimmercy

I think the reason that some clients don't answer all the questions in an email is because a large percentage of emails are read on a mobile phone and the clients simply don't scroll down enough to read the whole thing.

Your solution to only send 1 question per email is a good one.

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By Tosie
13th Aug 2014 15:44

Standard reply from certain of my clients.

Well is it ok ? If you say so it will be, I have not got a clue .

One even asked why it would not be alright .

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A caricature of SteveJay
By SteveJay
13th Aug 2014 16:47

Speaking as a Client.....

Euan MacLennan wrote:

........."No - he is not "happy" to submit a tax return and crystallise a tax liability.  As you have phrased your questions as a conditional "if you are happy" and as he is not happy, he is right not to reply. :¬)

Tosie wrote:

Well is it ok ? If you say so it will be

Speaking as a Client, the above quotes are the closest. He wouldn't be employing your services if he can answer the question, he would have done the job himself.: 

HOWEVER a question like:

"The attached Business/Personal accounts correctly reflect your Tax situation based upon the information you supplied to me.

If you are absolutely sure you gave me all necessary information please reply to this email including the attachments with it and stating that you authorise me to submit them electronically to the HMRC/Companies House. That email will then count as your signed authority.

The problem for the client is that you know what you want and legally need, he/she doesn't necessarily and the last thing they want to upset their day is their Tax returns.

If you are confident that you have done a good job then tell the client so.

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By petersaxton
13th Aug 2014 16:54

You can never get it right

You may have made a mistake so you are asking more than has the client given you all the information.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
A caricature of SteveJay
By SteveJay
13th Aug 2014 17:13

Mistake!!!

petersaxton wrote:

You may have made a mistake ....

Sorry, this isn't meant as a personal attack just a comment.

 How can you expect a client to spot a mistake that you the professional can't. It's a cop out. If you are not confident to say they are correct based upon the information given, do you really have a right to charge for the job.

Would you employ or pay a plumber who leaves a note for you saying: "I've done the Job, I think it is OK, please switch the water on and let me know if there are any leaks". A client does not expect to have to check the work of a professional they are paying to do a job which they probably don't know how to do.

But maybe I expect too much....

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Replying to johnhemming:
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By User deleted
13th Aug 2014 17:57

Bit different

SteveJay wrote:

petersaxton wrote:

You may have made a mistake ....

Sorry, this isn't meant as a personal attack just a comment.

 How can you expect a client to spot a mistake that you the professional can't. It's a cop out. If you are not confident to say they are correct based upon the information given, do you really have a right to charge for the job.

Would you employ or pay a plumber who leaves a note for you saying: "I've done the Job, I think it is OK, please switch the water on and let me know if there are any leaks". A client does not expect to have to check the work of a professional they are paying to do a job which they probably don't know how to do.

But maybe I expect too much....

If a plumber said 'let me know where the leaks are' then sure I'd not be paying, but I'd assume that they can't see through walls etc. and therefore, while happy that the job they've done is fine, they can't guarantee that there isn't another problem that will raise its head once the original one is fixed. So 'let me know if there any leaks' is fine, and probably just a way of saying 'I'm human, I'm pretty sure I've nailed it but as I've not yet reached divine status I'll accept there's a possibility I might, just might, have erred slightly'

Accountants have to assume that they've been given all relevant info and asking them to check it makes them a, aware that the end product is their responsibility whether they like it or not, and b, consider whether they have actually omitted to advise us of something of vital importance. It's not a cop out.

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Replying to tonycourt:
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
13th Aug 2014 18:02

@Flash

Flash Gordon wrote:

So 'let me know if there any leaks' is fine, and probably just a way of saying 'I'm human, I'm pretty sure I've nailed it but as I've not yet reached divine status

As in divining for water with twitchy sticks?

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Replying to johnhemming:
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
13th Aug 2014 17:59

I agree

SteveJay wrote:

How can you expect a client to spot a mistake that you the professional can't. It's a cop out. If you are not confident to say they are correct based upon the information given, do you really have a right to charge for the job.

The deal is that the client is responsible for providing all the relevant information and the accountant is responsible for including it all correctly on the tax return.

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Replying to johnhemming:
By petersaxton
13th Aug 2014 18:27

Seriously?

SteveJay wrote:

petersaxton wrote:

You may have made a mistake ....

Sorry, this isn't meant as a personal attack just a comment.

 How can you expect a client to spot a mistake that you the professional can't. It's a cop out. If you are not confident to say they are correct based upon the information given, do you really have a right to charge for the job.

Would you employ or pay a plumber who leaves a note for you saying: "I've done the Job, I think it is OK, please switch the water on and let me know if there are any leaks". A client does not expect to have to check the work of a professional they are paying to do a job which they probably don't know how to do.

But maybe I expect too much....

The plumber could just as easily switch the water on themselves.

It's a bit different to two people with completely different backgrounds. One spends every day in the business whereas the other is an accountant. They have different knowledge that can be used before finalising the accounts. Why not make use of all the knowledge available?

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By thomas34
13th Aug 2014 18:17

Not at all simple

in my opinion.

As I understand it Peter is asking his client to read through the SA100 and the accompanying tax computation and approve the documents. I doubt I'd have more than a handful of clients with the ability (or more importantly the inclination) to carry out that task. My handwritten note via snail-mail is "please sign and date your tax return on page TR8 and send back to me" - I have already prepared the return from information given to me.

Using a mechanic analogy (plumber's one above) it's a bit like the garage asking me to check that they'd tightened up the sump plug properly after changing the oil.

 

 

 

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By petersaxton
13th Aug 2014 18:23

Clients are not perfect

I've had clients describe something totally different to what it was in reality. The client thinks they've given all the information correctly but they've made a mistake.

I think it's only sensible to ask the client to review the accounts and see if they can spot something that appears to be wrong.

That doesn't mean I would expect them to do the accounts themselves to check. But surely they could look at the accounts to see whether the sales or directors loan looks reasonable. A client may think they have given all the information but there may be a newly opened bank account they haven't mentioned to the accountant but think they have mentioned it so they wouldn't say they hadn't given all the information. If they looked at the bank balances in the accounts they may realise that a bank account is missing.

I'd really rather try to get the accounts right rather than relying on blaming the client if the accounts turn out to be wrong.

 

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
13th Aug 2014 20:56

Don't ask them to think

Upload the accounts and tax return to Iris OpenSpace this means they get a link to download and an "I authorise" button to electronically OK both documents.  

No brain cells needed and whilst they have to download the document before they can hit the authorise button, doesn't mean they have to read it.

20 years ago I'd have been disgusted with myself for posting this !

 

 

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By Howard Marks
14th Aug 2014 12:21

Don't send one...
...until you've had a reply to the other.

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Replying to davidwinch:
By mrme89
14th Aug 2014 12:27

.

Platform wrote:
...until you've had a reply to the other.

 

You'd be waiting months / years!

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