Ben Smith, AccountingWEB UK
Replies (26)
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Game of cat & mouse …
@bensmithsift
Less running around like headless chickens and more thought at the outset to outwit these people
Diving straight in without thought and working like beavers is not the answer – stand back and out think them – then apply a solution
You know what tools you have in your armoury – mainly data about users. Such things as their historic profile, when they joined the site, number of posts made by each member, probably IP and so on …
Therefore use these attributes to design a flexible blocking mechanism that will allow existing users to post whilst at the same time reducing the spammers to a minimum - some are always going to get through, but the volume should be easily manageable
Furthermore, this would be a pretty secure background task that would serve your purposes and also not pass member details onto a 3rd party - who could do goodness know what with the Aweb member user base details (frankly trust Mollom about as far as one can chuck them! and who refuse to respond when asked to remove entirely an individual users details from their systems)
A catch-all solution such as the one employed is really not the answer and as for Mollon regarding its system as pseudo AI (learns as it goes) – well it must be either retarded (non-pc) or a very slow learner and Mollom on this basis Aweb should ask for your money back because you have been sold a pup!
Reference – entered Molloms URL here to see whether they block their own system when posted, because they seem to block everyone elses
URL = was molloms own url www mollom com - but refused to post with the url
Seems that MOLLOM doesn't even REGARD ITS OWN URL AS SAFE - WOW !!!!
So much for a learning system !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If ever there was an indictment against this CR**P company (Mollom) then this is it
My thoughts ...
it would be advisable to categorise members into different classes:
members whose details have been verified, ie. those who have provided verifiable personal details.long term members who have posted regularlynew members who have provided verifiable personal details long term members who don't post frequently and cannot be verifiednew members who have provided no verifiable information
The only ones that need automatic monitoring are the latter two. If those members get annoyed by the monitoring they will have the option of providing verifiable information and so move to one of the other categories.
Thanks for the update
Thanks for the comprehensive update. It's good to know what is being done and have an avenue to alert early to ongoing problems.
I don't know if JC is offering to design a "flexible blocking mechanism" for the site, since they clearly think such things are a snap to put together. However, I would echo their comments on Mollom. It wouldn't even let me post a link to another page on this very site yesterday. That's just silly. If Mollom is incapable of recognising any links as safe (and the fact their own page is blocked would indicate that was so) then it is undoubtedly time to look for an alternative solution. I will be seeing a friend whose job is in IT security tonight, so I will see if they have any good suggestions on that front.
Few points …
@stepurhan
Firstly a systems analyst doesn’t actually need to know anything about the underlying program language – so defining the right approach has nothing to do with actual coding
Secondly, believe Aweb are using Dupral (open-source? CMS – php & MySQL as standard db, Linux/Apache) which is a ‘lego’ approach bolting together 3rd party modules, thereby de-skilling the actual development process. In theory an api could be written in any language and once approved could just be exposed to the CMS user base for inclusion in their own use of the system
Once the rules had actually been defined (analyst), developing a api would be a relatively speedy process (using VS I could probably do it in 10 days - 2 weeks, depending upon hurdles/restrictions imposed by Dupral, although as OS these should be minimal), nevertheless the approval process may inevitably take longer
Develop these things every day, so work from own knowledge and don’t have to ‘phone a friend’
Dupral source code available from github
It is important to get this right. There is no quick solution.
The devil, as ever, is in the detail. If you developed in it every day, you'd know it was Drupal, and not Dupral, and that it is well known as a bit of a pig and very slow to develop in.
Niche interest
My watch stopped working.
The jeweller was mystified and told me about the craftsmanship of the piece and the sensitivity of the components. The makers had been making good quality watches for generations and have an enviable reputation. He told me how their marketing was clever too and how being a globally recognised brand added value.
I bought it to tell me the time. It doesn't.
Quite right …
@Tim Vane – thank you for picking this up - you are quite right - typo
Thought I specified ‘.. using VS ..’, nothing about developing in Drupa, although could be mistaken
Furthermore ‘.. these things ..’ refers to api’s in the aforementioned language not Drupal – apologies for not spelling it out
As you say ‘.. The devil, as ever, is in the detail ..’
White list of members
Why haven't you considered having a white list of some members? Say anybody with one years membership and 10 normal posts.
Explain - Member Management Logic
@bensmithsift
Sorry I am being so dim but for my benefit, could you please explain the meaning of the following
‘.. Most of your suggestions so far are more inline with member management logic ..’
Because I am afraid I don’t have a clue what you are talking about & it sounds more like 'marketing speak' to fob one off, than anything else
Assuming it to be in line with @peter suggestion - then why has it never been implemented - after all this 'new' site has been running now for a number of years and yet the concept seems to have come as a surprise to Aweb
Seems logical
@bensmithsift
Sorry I am being so dim but for my benefit, could you please explain the meaning of the following
‘.. Most of your suggestions so far are more inline with member management logic ..’
Because I am afraid I don’t have a clue what you are talking about & it sounds more like 'marketing speak' to fob one off, than anything else
Assuming it to be in line with @peter suggestion - then why has it never been implemented - after all this 'new' site has been running now for a number of years and yet the concept seems to have come as a surprise to Aweb
Seems pretty obvious really. You suggest a rule based system. Is that not what a logic system is based on? Calling it member management logic doesn't seem a big leap.
Member management logic
It sounds like a phrase that somebody would use if they wanted 10 different users to think he agreed with their 10 different suggestions.
I don't see why Ben can't talk in terms of specifics. It's not like it would matter if spammers knew that Sift was doing something that improved the site experience like using a white list.
Be fair, Peter
If Sift reveals too much people might realise that Sift doesn't know as much as they would like us to think they do.
Maybe
Sift's policy is that they can at least fool OGA, FT, Marion and cheekychappy and with the rest of the members they can try to confuse them with gobbledygook or accuse them of being unreasonable.
Please leave me out of this ...
... I am getting irked with keep being dragged in to this b*llocks and with continued contumelies.
Well maybe you should be careful about what you say
... I am getting irked with keep being dragged in to this b*llocks and with continued contumelies.
The first time either of us mentioned the other was you:
"Peter .. i am worried about you, you seem to be turning in to Victor Meldrew, and insulting everyone constantly is not becoming.
Sift are having problems, they are trying to sort it so we can use their FREE service as we wish, so give them a chance and stop throwing your toys out the pram."
@Tim Vane – why should anyone lie? ……..
@Tim Vane - Apart from your apparent misinterpretation of the post
Quote – ‘.. using VS ..’
This is supposed to be a professional forum and not some Twitter lookalike – so with reference to the paragraph in your post
‘.. If you developed in it every day ..’
Perhaps you would be so good as to explain the meaning of the above paragraph and why you believe anyone would lie about a such a matter, unless of course it is a reflection of one’s own approach in professional life
No, that came after ...
... you called me and others an idiot! That was not an acceptable post to me.
And my post was a light-hearted way of saying calm down it's not that important, not an insult.
It makes me proud
Being called an idiot by Peter has long been a badge of honour.
I call myself an idiot!
Called you an idiot?
Can you link me to the post? No, forget that!
Can you tell me what time and in which thread it was?
I really don't remember call you an idiot.
Do you mean me?
I don't think I said you did, but if you haven't I'm hurt to have been omitted. Go on, do it . . . just for me this once.
No - a straight forward "No" triggers a block!
I don't think I said you did, but if you haven't I'm hurt to have been omitted. Go on, do it . . . just for me this once.
No, not you. Whatever we are talking about!
I didn't call you an idiot
... the one you quoted of mine.
If you think I did call you an idiot please provide the quote.