Iris Personal Tax and Managed Investment Portfolios

Iris Personal Tax and Managed Investment...

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I have a client who has a managed investment portfolio, where they get a Consolidated Tax Voucher at the end of the tax year. I want to use this to enter the details into Iris, without having to enter every purchase, sale and dividend transaction into Iris.

I have tried the Iris helpline to be advised there is no shortcut and I need to enter every transaction. I cannot feel this is right, and my client is not likely to be receptive to being told how much time I spent re-entering data!

Does anyone else have experience of this and a work around - it must be a fairly common situation?

Alan

Replies (15)

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
07th Nov 2014 17:39

No problem

For capital gains, add an "Other Capital Gain" within Capital Assets for each tax year and complete the details on screen.

For dividends, set up the portfolio as a shareholding with 1 share and then, enter the dividend total with a date of 5 April.

Similar for any interest included on the consolidated voucher.

 

Thanks (1)
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By User deleted
08th Nov 2014 00:43

For Capital Gains ...

... if you do as Euan says and tick the "Broker's schedule" box the acquisition date is greyed out, just put 05/04/XX for the disposal date and the net gain per the schedule> The brokers schedules seem better these days, in the past they were invariably wrong, but the reverse seems true as of late.

Thanks (2)
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By Alan 3969
11th Nov 2014 19:39

Cheers

Thanks very much for the advice. I thought there must be an easier way. Foreign Divi's go in separate for country reporting but I have no problem with that.

Now if only AccountingWeb could keep up wth my typing speed!!

Thanks (0)
Replying to robvaughan:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
12th Nov 2014 11:52

@Euan @OGA

I use IRIS. With your approach, does that mean that you do not enter the individual share sales? I thought they all had to be entered (assuming over the thresholds). It would save some work.

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Replying to DJKL:
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
12th Nov 2014 12:13

That's right

Red Leader wrote:

I use IRIS. With your approach, does that mean that you do not enter the individual share sales? I thought they all had to be entered (assuming over the thresholds). It would save some work.

DJKL wrote:

Re CGT do you not still need to split the transactions into those that were a gain and those a loss?

The Other Capital Gains screen, with Broker's Schedule ticked, asks you for the net gain/loss, the total proceeds and the number of disposals, but no details of individual disposals or a split of gains and losses.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
12th Nov 2014 12:25

Don't use Iris, but generally should not...

Euan MacLennan wrote:

Red Leader wrote:

I use IRIS. With your approach, does that mean that you do not enter the individual share sales? I thought they all had to be entered (assuming over the thresholds). It would save some work.

DJKL wrote:

Re CGT do you not still need to split the transactions into those that were a gain and those a loss?

The Other Capital Gains screen, with Broker's Schedule ticked, asks you for the net gain/loss, the total proceeds and the number of disposals, but no details of individual disposals or a split of gains and losses.

Don't use Iris, but generally should not the tax return have these split so that losses of the year are correctly claimed against gains?

After all boxes 3 (Total Gains) and 6 (Total losses) need correctly completed on the Capital Gains Summary. Only thereafter should losses be relieved.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
12th Nov 2014 15:08

@Euan @OGA

That's great, thanks.

I've been using IRIS for ages but hadn't spotted that option. How did you learn of it?

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Replying to mrme89:
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By User deleted
12th Nov 2014 16:38

A combination ...

Red Leader wrote:

That's great, thanks.

I've been using IRIS for ages but hadn't spotted that option. How did you learn of it?

... of an enquiring mind, laziness, IRIS support and hot tips they give you at IRIS World every year.

I think I probably got bored entering individual transactions and called support and asked if there was a better way!

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By User deleted
12th Nov 2014 16:41

The broker does that ....

DJKL wrote:

Euan MacLennan wrote:

Red Leader wrote:

I use IRIS. With your approach, does that mean that you do not enter the individual share sales? I thought they all had to be entered (assuming over the thresholds). It would save some work.

DJKL wrote:

Re CGT do you not still need to split the transactions into those that were a gain and those a loss?

The Other Capital Gains screen, with Broker's Schedule ticked, asks you for the net gain/loss, the total proceeds and the number of disposals, but no details of individual disposals or a split of gains and losses.

Don't use Iris, but generally should not the tax return have these split so that losses of the year are correctly claimed against gains?

After all boxes 3 (Total Gains) and 6 (Total losses) need correctly completed on the Capital Gains Summary. Only thereafter should losses be relieved.

... that is what they earn their fees for, balancing a portfolio to relieve losses against gains and keep the CGT as low as possible, why duplicate what has already been done? You just need to enter the net figures for each box, that is all that goes to HMRC, you have the detail if they ask, besides, you probably don't have sufficient to break down the gains and losses properly unless you have tracked every holding from day one, logged scrip/rights and bonus issues, share splits and reclassifications, logged dividends received as extra shares properly etc. etc! 

Thanks (0)
Replying to The Dullard:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
12th Nov 2014 16:56

@OGA, that I think is what I was saying

Old Greying Accountant wrote:

DJKL wrote:

Euan MacLennan wrote:

Red Leader wrote:

I use IRIS. With your approach, does that mean that you do not enter the individual share sales? I thought they all had to be entered (assuming over the thresholds). It would save some work.

DJKL wrote:

Re CGT do you not still need to split the transactions into those that were a gain and those a loss?

The Other Capital Gains screen, with Broker's Schedule ticked, asks you for the net gain/loss, the total proceeds and the number of disposals, but no details of individual disposals or a split of gains and losses.

Don't use Iris, but generally should not the tax return have these split so that losses of the year are correctly claimed against gains?

After all boxes 3 (Total Gains) and 6 (Total losses) need correctly completed on the Capital Gains Summary. Only thereafter should losses be relieved.

... that is what they earn their fees for, balancing a portfolio to relieve losses against gains and keep the CGT as low as possible, why duplicate what has already been done? You just need to enter the net figures for each box, that is all that goes to HMRC, you have the detail if they ask, besides, you probably don't have sufficient to break down the gains and losses properly unless you have tracked every holding from day one, logged scrip/rights and bonus issues, share splits and reclassifications, logged dividends received as extra shares properly etc. etc! 

That is what I was saying, surely two entries are needed, one being the transactions that were gains in total and one being the transactions which were losses in total.

The return I used to do which had heavy trading (200-300 sales a year) I calculated the gains/losses on excel, then used If, Then  command to split into Total receipts re gains/ total gains and Total receipts re losses/ total losses, to enter required totals on the tax return.i.e. two lines

Thanks (0)
paddle steamer
By DJKL
12th Nov 2014 12:03

Re CGT do you not still...

 

Re CGT do you not still need to split the transactions into those that were a gain and those a loss?

I used to have one case where we calculated total proceeds /total gains and total proceeds/ total losses, then entered each as a separate line on the return .

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
12th Nov 2014 12:07

Duplicate post, nm

 

..

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By justsotax
12th Nov 2014 16:40

I attach the actual

brokers (pdf) CGT schedule to the submitted TR so the Revenue have all of the share details backing up the summary information.

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
12th Nov 2014 17:35

@DJKL, let me put it this way

IRIS treats the Broker's Schedule as an individual asset with a single overall net gain or loss - the logic presumably being that from the taxpayer's point of view it is a single investment with a funds manager, who then manages the detailed investments without reference to the taxpayer.  IRIS then adds the figures you have entered into the appropriate boxes 30 to 33 on page CG 2 of the tax return, along with any other disposals of property or other assets.  Specifically, a net gain on a Broker's Schedule goes into Boxes 3 & 33 and a net loss goes only into Box 6.

If a major software provider does it that way, I can only assume that it is acceptable to HMRC.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
12th Nov 2014 17:58

I understand but still think not correct

Euan MacLennan wrote:

IRIS treats the Broker's Schedule as an individual asset with a single overall net gain or loss - the logic presumably being that from the taxpayer's point of view it is a single investment with a funds manager, who then manages the detailed investments without reference to the taxpayer.  IRIS then adds the figures you have entered into the appropriate boxes 30 to 33 on page CG 2 of the tax return, along with any other disposals of property or other assets.  Specifically, a net gain on a Broker's Schedule goes into Boxes 3 & 33 and a net loss goes only into Box 6.

If a major software provider does it that way, I can only assume that it is acceptable to HMRC.

It appears wrong to net the gains/losses as described, however  99.999999999 times out of a 100 probably makes no difference to tax payable as losses in year offset prior to b/fwd losses and annual allowance.

I suspect there could be occasions when being able to select which losses to use might be of benefit and just dumping the net loss onto the return might result in this being missed; subscribed AIM shares spring to mind.

I doubt I will ever trust a broker to deal with the matching rules/ CGT correctly.  I recently had to reconcile what one had done re splitting Vodafone / Verizon costfor a client's accounts , I checked it over and over, did it from scratch myself and eventually concluded their figures were wrong. Similarly I used to keep spreadsheets re my SIPP and the cost figures for each holding I arrived at often did not agree with those provided by the broker; scrips/ rights used to really upset their figures, albeit within a SIPP it was not that important.

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