We are a five person high street accountant in a medium sized town. We predominantly deal with two person limited companies up to £1m. We have bigger and smaller people but that would be our average client. We offer a free initial meeting for new clients. We have had a recent trend of people coming in for free meetings then despite us saying they are general meetings to see how we can help and if we gel, they will ask detailed tax questions. I try and be evasive but when trying to make a good impression its hard to refuse to answer point blank. Often they say they are also seeing other people so I want to look good. However, although we end up securing virtually every client there is a growing trend of people deciding to form their own company or do their own payroll or numerous other things that they have picked our brains about. I would like to give them less info at these meetings but without coming across as unhelpful or worse, knowing nothing about tax.
Maybe its different if people are used to dealing with big budget clients. Even worse is the fact they often mess up doing this work themselves but then seem to think as their accountant we are in some way obliged to sort it out.
Replies (21)
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nature of the beast.
I totally agree and I feel that over the last 5 years this has been happening more and more. I see more people asking for free advice and then filing the returns themselves. I can only see it happening more and more over the next decade as gov agencies market our industry as being easy.
99% of them will find out the hard way why people spend so many years training and keeping updated to do what we do. When they do find out, they'll either bury their head in the sand and go bankrupt or pay a large sum to someone who is qualified to correct their mistakes.
A ready set of anecdotes
I don't mind those that are equipped (with nous and time) to do as much as they would like to do themselves, I think it is only right to balance things with true stories of how clients, who thought they knew what they were doing, getting it very wrong and the cost to them in time and money for putting it right.
MLR Regulations don't allow it
All you need to say is that the Money Laundering Regulations do not allow you to offer specific advice, and thereby effectively act for a person, until you have complied with the ML Regulations.
Therefore, until they become a client, you are only able to offer very general advice.
Not bad
All you need to say is that the Money Laundering Regulations do not allow you to offer specific advice, and thereby effectively act for a person, until you have complied with the ML Regulations.
Therefore, until they become a client, you are only able to offer very general advice.
But that only works if all accountants (that the prospect sees) say the same thing. If the OP is the only one I suspect this would count against them.
My view
If they ask a question then answer it. But don't let the meeting descend into a free for all.
The one's that want to do DIY will do so regardless of how much information you give them.
Concise answers
1. Give the prospect a potted version of the answer,
2. let them know there is more to the subject than they have time for today,
3. give them confidence that you can help them, and
4. if it is important to them assure them you can make it a priority to help them with it at a later date..
Lots of questions...
If they bring out a notebook full of questions that really would be an opportunity for us to say we don't provide answers free of charge or else we wouldn't be able to make a living. We can only answer such detailed questions once they sign up. That answer of mine is in hindsight, as someone did do this to me in my rooky days and I just went right on and answered every question.
Of course if you're honest and trustworthy yourself it's difficult sometimes to be a bit more cagey and I've often found I wasted my time having meetings with people. So I now have a discussion by phone first and then insist on a meeting after that if I think they really mean to sign up. That should weed out a few more timewasters.
If that happens, stop them in their tracks.
Reiterate that the meeting they have booked is only a general meeting to discuss their needs and general advice and if they want a technical meeting to enable them to undertake the work themselves they will have to arrange another meeting that will be chargeable.
Control
Question 1 at the meeting - would you like tea or coffee?
Question 2 - what would you like to get out of the meeting?
If they get out a thick notebook, 'alarm bells'. Tell them this is a getting to know you kind of meeting, essentially that it is one designed to help us both decide if we will be comfortable working with each other in future, but that you are happy to answer one or two questions in the time we have available. Then see earlier answer at 17.20!
Annoying already
If this prospective client has your back up already, it is unlikely that things will improve.
They sound like a nit-picking, penny-pinching type, so might be best to have a serious think if you are their chosen accountant in the end.
I've got no problem with people making sure they get a fair price for accountancy services, just hate the ones that go and get quotes from somewhere else to try and beat us down further.
We know what we offer is well-priced already, and I suspect most of us on AW are the same.
Been there. Still there.
I (partly) blame the internet. People are used to getting information for free.
@hughjoyce I've had people who didn't even come in for a meeting to ask those questions. They just launched into them over the phone! And were annoyed when I didn't answer them. (One of them was about VAT involving at least three different countries.)
I have also had that notebook guy. Meeting at 8am to accommodate him. He wanted me to show him how to do his own tax return. Ha!
In my experience, you do need to answer some of their queries so it looks like you know what you are doing. I usually answer the simple queries, ones where the answer is easily google-able. For anything complicated I usually say that it is something we can deal with and would be delighted to help with if they came on board. I usually tell them the "what" and even the "why" but not the "how".
Another way to sort out the messers is to ask them if they would like a "get to know you type meeting" or a tax consultation. Let them know that the tax consultation costs x per hour. I've done this successfully in the past and at least you get paid for your hour. (It's a bummer dealing with the ML obligations etc if someone comes in for an hour, but you could have a system in place with a receptionist/assistant etc.) If a "get to know you meeting" starts to veer into a tax consultation, you can politely ask if they would like a tax consultation after this meeting. I found that they were happy to pay for it if they got some value out of it. I did this for very simple tax issues and followed up with a quick email immediately after the meeting.
@andy.partridge: I'll be adding those questions to our office procedures manual.
The joys of it!
Note-takers
Just expanding on Notebook guy, whenever a prospect starts taking technical notes I now revert to non-specific advice mode and limit the meeting to 30 minutes.
In my experience the note-takers are the freeloaders!
Heard of an alternative way that someone in our area operates - they charge £100 for an initial meeting which, if the prospect comes on board, is deducted from the first year fees. They've had a fair few takers (not all of whom have been taken on afterwards) and removed most of the curious Georges.
I'm considering adopting this approach but might ask for slightly less as an initial fee - I think £100 *sounds* too much, so would expect some genuine prospects to think likewise.
Those people who see ten firms and then 'know' enough to do it themselves take up far too much time at free initial meetings and £100 wouldn't even cover half of some, so it's a good policy. If every firm did this, it would solve a huge issue for us and probably bring more work whence the inevitable [***]-ups are pursued by HMRC in due course.
What do you want out of this
Question I always try to ask quite early is what do you want of this meeting, at that point you generally put timewasters on the back foot.
If it is a specific piece of advice, the answer is we'll have to get a signed engagement letter in place now, let me take some details for the AML check and for my secretary to type the engagement letter while you wait
Interesting Thread
I deal with similar size clients but find for new start ups the main focus is the meeting is should they be a Limited Co and what my fees will be as most of the businesses are quite straight forward, and I don't I find get drawn into to technical points. What I do too much of is just general chit chat and often have a 2 hour meeting when 1 hour would suffice. I suppose this comes from working alone at home and I just enjoy the interface with another person, but I must try and reduce the time put in on first meetings.
What I really dislike is meeting a new prospect who gives you a sob story about how bad his current accountant is, he over charges never returns calls etc. you then quote them for the work and never back only to be told, "I have decided to stay where I am as he matched your quote".
Oh so the price was the only issue then not the poor service you alluded to at the meeting.
Really boils my blood that but it comes with the game we are in.
Ah yes . .
What I do too much of is just general chit chat and often have a 2 hour meeting when 1 hour would suffice.
Isn't that the double-glazing strategy? Prospects will not have the time or be unwilling to go through all that again with others, so they submit.
Totally agree with you. Some prospects don't understand that better service is likely to cost more. Best quality/lowest price is not a sustainable business model.
The one I smile about is the prospect who complains their accountant is not 'proactive'. 'Is this something you would be prepared to pay more for?' 'Eh?'