Lunch Expenses

Lunch Expenses

Didn't find your answer?

I know this is a simple question, but I am finding it difficult to find a simple answer......!!

Can a sole trader/consultant claim for lunch whilst travelling to a business meeting. I have found conflicting advice and would be grateful if some of you more experienced practitioners could provide me with your view.

Thank you.

Replies (16)

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By vince8
24th Aug 2012 07:37

Get the other party to pay?

We all need to eat to survive but see here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM37660.htm

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By Steve Kesby
24th Aug 2012 10:07

Don't believe all you read...

... in HMRC's manuals.

If a self-employed person is travelling away from home/their ususal place of business and their travel costs are allowable then any reasonable expenses they incur on food or drink on the journey or at the place they've travelled to is specifically allowed by S.57A ITTOIA 2005, assuming the other conditions of S.57A are met.

This was previously an extra-statutory concession and HMRC mention neither the ESC or the statutory provision in their manuals.

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By Helen Crowley
28th Aug 2012 14:40

Agree with Steve but it IS in HMRC's manuals!  You just hadn't read on far enough BIM 37670 reflects the legislation that Steve Kesby is referring to. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim37670.htm 

BIM37670 - "But extra costs may be incurred wholly for business purposes where a business is by its nature itinerant (for example in the case of commercial travellers), or where occasional business journeys outside the normal pattern are made. You may allow a deduction for reasonable expenses incurred in these circumstances." "" 

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By Steve Kesby
28th Aug 2012 15:00

That wasn't there last week!

I looked for something that said it in HMRC's manuals, but failed to find it.  Thanks Helen for uncovering it.

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Replying to petersaxton:
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By Helen Crowley
28th Aug 2012 15:19

Hidden well!

It is misleading of HMRC to put it under the heading of itinerant trades though when it also applies to traders working outside of their normal pattern though.

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By zarathustra
28th Aug 2012 15:01

Tea trolley?

What about if the client is out of the office at 11.00am when the tea trolley comes round (as used to happen at one place I worked!).

Can he buy a latte and sticky bun from Starbucks, and offset it against tax, even if he is working in his own town?

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By petersaxton
28th Aug 2012 15:10

Perk?

I don't see why an employee would be able to get a taxable deduction in these circumstances. Everybody is entitled to the same treatment but going to Starbucks isn't the same.

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By User deleted
03rd Sep 2012 15:16

Just to clarify

So whenever travel is allowable so is subsistence?

Take for eg. a self-employed joiner. Works at different premises each time he gets a new job. His cost of running the van (travel) goes through the business. Would you then advise him to put the cost of his lunches out through the business? 

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By Steve Kesby
03rd Sep 2012 15:34

I'd say...

... on your description of the facts, that both conditions A and B of S.57A are met.  As long as the costs are reasonable and are on buying lunch away (rather than purchasing the ingredients for a packed lunch prior to travel), I can't see why they shouldn't be claimed.

That being said though, the FTT in Kenyon disallowed accommodation costs (a subsistence expense if it's not a travel expense) whilst allowing travel expenses. Probably wrongly decided in that respect though, and it did concern pre-2009 expenditure.

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By David Gordon FCCA
03rd Sep 2012 17:42

going to starbucks
Gooing to Starbucks is not a benefit it is a penance. A painful fashion accessory like winkle-picker shoes. A person who does so, probably also believes in organic sugar.

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By jiatbanus
03rd Sep 2012 18:39

Lunch "expenses".
Ahrgg! Is it not the 21st century. Only HMRC could continue to see lunch as a perk (that they themselves would not have to suffer.) And only this profession would see only tradesmen and salesmen as likely to travel commercially. HMRC staff, like MPs, will get an (tax free) allowance. Like the P11D salary level of £8500 being frozen in time. Why bother. As an Accountant Consultant I travel between 30k and 50k miles each year in the UK. It's time they all got real and stopped playing games with petty tax rules. (Apologies to Helen and Steve who might still enjoy delving into the mysterious manuals). By the way - Google works for me! It saved me hours this morning when setting up the Adobe trust settings on my new computer so that I could do battle with the HMRC crap CT600 filing, (via Accountingweb no less!)

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By jiatbanus
03rd Sep 2012 18:48

PS
Iris staff seem to be doing a good job pre-selling RTI to it's customers. It's a BENEFIT! It going to SAVE you doing a year end payroll filing. I think HMRC should just directly collect the receipts from our sales etc., deduct all necessary payroll and other taxes and "credit" our account with what's left. Oh! With no right of appeal. Maybe, like "them" we can all have a HMRC Credit Card (with no supervision on use).

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By BabsHarris
17th Sep 2012 19:15

Just checking.....

So if my client leaves home in the morning and gets home for dinner in the evening he/she can buy lunch and set as expenses?  What happened to the 'take your own packed lunch' expectation from HMRC?  I seem to be coming to this all late!!

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Replying to TheLambtonWorm:
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By Helen Crowley
18th Sep 2012 11:10

Two conditions must be met;-
“Subsistence expenses57A    Expenses incurred by traders on food and drink

(1) In calculating the profits of a trade, a deduction is allowed for any reasonable expenses incurred on food or drink for consumption by the trader at a place to which the trader travels in the course of carrying on the trade, or while travelling to a place in the course of carrying on the trade, if conditions A and B are met.

(2) Condition A is met if—

(a)a deduction is allowed for the expenses incurred by the trader in travelling to the place, or

(b)where the expenses of travelling to the place are not incurred by the trader, a deduction would be allowed for them if they were.

(3) Condition B is met if—

(a)at the time the expenses are incurred on the food or drink, the trade is by its nature itinerant, or

(b)the trader does not travel to the place more than occasionally in the course of carrying on the trade and either—

(i)the travel in connection with which the expenses are incurred on the food or drink is undertaken otherwise than as part of the trader’s normal pattern of travel in the course of carrying on the trade, or

(ii)the trader does not have such a normal pattern of travel.” 

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By jiatbanus
19th Sep 2012 09:21

Lunch expenses
That's enough. I'm leaving the planet. Add that to all of the other stupid discussions on miniscule tax rules with the added charges to NI, then posh cars - or just cars - and you can feel the grip of anti business HMRC throughout the system. Oh! and so long as the rules don't impact on THEM. THEY don't have to claim back OPEs. They get ALLOWANCES! Time to change and time to simplify.

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By dominovision
01st May 2014 11:24

Lunches..

What if you are travelling overseas and lunch (usually not claimable) is more expensive than in your base location?.

e.g in Paris Lunch (soup+cake) in a takeaway place is around £12 versus £6-7 in London

Can you claim the difference? i.e £6 as a non taxable benefit.
 

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