moving to IRIS

moving to IRIS

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After much deliberation I am thinking of moving to IRIS. 

Currently have about 170 clients and use Taxcalc for accounts and tax.  Like Taxcalc as it is nice and easy to use and is integrated.

Currently have spreadsheets for WIP, timesheets, tasks to do be done each month and a massive spreadsheet with information on each client eg name, tele no, email address, UTR etc.

Use hellosign to electronically send accounts, tax returns and eng letters to clients.

Have template word letters that customise by changing the name and address together with relevant detail of the body of the letter to send out as cover letters with accounts and tax return for clients.

Reason for moving to IRIS is that everything run from the one database

1. Expect accounts and tax return will be much the same process.

2. Can use practice management to keep track of jobs and tasks to be done each month.  Seems can use detailed data mining and can track status of all jobs eg status of all tax returns for the year at a glance.

3. Can use  automail to generate letters at the click a button.

4. Can use openspace to send documents via portal for clients to sign, to upload files to clients and for clients to upload to us.  More secure than email.  Also thinking about using this to send payslips to clients as recently brought the payroll function inhouse having previously outsourced it.

5. Can easily run timesheets and costing reports via time and fees.

6. Can easily set up limited companies directly from Companies House.

I know it is expensive but as with most things in life I believe you get what you pay for and over half the accountants in the UK cant be wrong.

If I can save an hour or two per client each year using IRIS then using it pays for itself.

Am I right taking the decision to move or should I stick with what I have.

Would be interested of hearing from people that have moved to IRIS in the last year or so from a smaller package eg taxcalc, VT, absolute, BTC, etc.  Have you regretted it or would you say go for it.

I expect that the way things are growing will be up to about 300-400 clients by the end of next year.

Replies (71)

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By nogammonsinanundoubledgame
09th Apr 2015 08:26

I have used ...

... Taxcalc, Sage, Iris and Absolute.

Having tried them, I think that integrated databases appear nicer on paper than they work out in practice and are overrated.

I can't afford the time to go into detail right now, but if you are just looking for votes mine would be to stick with taxcalc.  Starting from scratch I would probably go with Absolute.

One question to ask yourself is: If in 5 years time you decide to change, how hard is your existing provider going to make life for you?  To give you one example, suppose you went with Sage, and after 5 years decided to move, then from the point that your sub runs out with Sage you will be denied access to your Sage database, even on read-only basis for historical years.  I don't know whether Iris do the same.  But if potential customers got into the habit of asking these awkward questions BEFORE signing up, it might focus attention on these policies a bit.

With kind regards

Clint Westwood

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By ShirleyM
09th Apr 2015 08:43

We have used CCH, Sage, PTP, TaxCalc, BTC in the past

As above, I think integrated is overrated. I was really keen to start using integrated thinking it would save time, but in reality, it costs time and adds no end of complications. I think there is also the the temptation to think that 'you get what you pay for', so expensive must be better.

It may save a few minutes here and there, but it also costs hours and hours in other ways.

I now use VT and Taxfiler. Both are incredibly quick, incredibly good, and cheap does not equate to 'nasty'. We have our own bespoke CRM. The time saved by truly efficient accounts prep and tax software will save you hours on each and every job. This is lost when you are forced to use integrated as you can't pick and choose the best software. You have to use whatever the integrated software gives you, in order to take advantage of the integration.

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Replying to Paul D Utherone:
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By marks
09th Apr 2015 22:32

thanks shirley

ShirleyM wrote:

The time saved by truly efficient accounts prep and tax software will save you hours on each and every job. This is lost when you are forced to use integrated as you can't pick and choose the best software. You have to use whatever the integrated software gives you, in order to take advantage of the integration.

Thanks for you reply Shirley.

However dont agree with the above.  All accounts and tax packages broadly work the same.  Only time saving is is with integrated packages where you can push the accounts data into the tax program.

When I started out I used VT for accounts and Taxcalc for Tax from purely the reason they were cheap.  However I found VT took time getting the notes sorted so switched to Taxcalc for accounts.  So accounts and tax workflow is now slicker with both on Taxcalc.

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By justsotax
09th Apr 2015 09:15

IRIS is great...unless it doesn't

do exactly what you need it to do (which will happen from time to time)- then suddenly having an integrated system means any 'work around' is challenging at best, and at worst defeats the principle purpose of having an integrated system to save time...  

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By jon_griffey
09th Apr 2015 12:11

PM

If you are using practice management software, then the Iris integrated solutution will make this much slicker.  Events such as filing accounts online etc are updated in PM automatically.

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Replying to jcace:
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By marks
09th Apr 2015 22:37

thanks

jon_griffey wrote:

If you are using practice management software, then the Iris integrated solutution will make this much slicker.  Events such as filing accounts online etc are updated in PM automatically.

Thanks Jon

This is where I see me making time saving.

Currently use spreadsheets for timesheets, jobs in progress and tasks to be done each month.  (For instance most of my Ltd company clients are March year end so spend this morning emailling 50 clients to advise their year end had just past and to hand in their records as soon as possible)

Using IRIS will be able to do and see the above at a click of button (or at least I should) plus dont need to remember what to do each month if set up properly at the start as tasks.

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By egarnham
09th Apr 2015 12:46

I have used IRIS for many years now, and I do find it very good, for example when we complete the tax return form and send to the client we have set up a template within automail so it prepopulates details of the tax liability and POA's onto the letter.  Because everything is integrated we do save so much time.  Very easy to get reports from personal tax as to which tax returns are outstanding.  We only have to update any changes to one system too.

 

 

 

 

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Replying to kestrepo:
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By marks
09th Apr 2015 22:44

thanks

egarnham wrote:

I have used IRIS for many years now, and I do find it very good, for example when we complete the tax return form and send to the client we have set up a template within automail so it prepopulates details of the tax liability and POA's onto the letter.  Because everything is integrated we do save so much time.  Very easy to get reports from personal tax as to which tax returns are outstanding.  We only have to update any changes to one system too.

Yeah this is where will save time.

Know you can set up templates so cover letter can be prepared with name, address, salutation and appropriate tax and POA all pulled from IRIS.

At the moment I have a template letters in word but have to cut and paste name and address, change date, insert tax and POA etc.  Doesnt take long but 15-20 mins per client when you have 170 clients adds up to 40 hours over the year.  

Again like the idea of getting reports to see where we are with everything.  Over the last couple of years had a spreadsheet of all tax returns to be done that updated as they were done.  Given this would update automatically when you filed online means dont need to update manually.  Ok only take a few minutes to do but again adds up to maybe 8 hours a year.  Plus the issues that arise when you forget to update.

One change on one system is a timesaver as well when people move address, become VAT registered, become reg for payroll etc.  Saves having to update a couple of separate spreadsheets.  

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By User deleted
09th Apr 2015 12:49

We have used IRIS ...

... for over 20 years and you couldn't get me to move. It is the only truly integrated system and work-arounds on the rare occasion they are required have never been that problematic.

In my experience the key is in investing in training, so many "problems" people have is that they don't know how to use what they have rather than the product being deficient.

The other key aspect is planning the installation properly. Talk to users, learn how it works and plan how you want to put your data on, it will save hours later if you spend time setting it up right.

Don't forget, it can also handle document scanning and e-mail logging (in and out).

If you are anywhere near West London you are welcome to come and see it in a live environment, just pm me.

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Replying to Finding Accounting:
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By marks
09th Apr 2015 22:50

test

Old Greying Accountant wrote:

... for over 20 years and you couldn't get me to move. It is the only truly integrated system and work-arounds on the rare occasion they are required have never been that problematic.

In my experience the key is in investing in training, so many "problems" people have is that they don't know how to use what they have rather than the product being deficient.

The other key aspect is planning the installation properly. Talk to users, learn how it works and plan how you want to put your data on, it will save hours later if you spend time setting it up right.

Don't forget, it can also handle document scanning and e-mail logging (in and out).

If you are anywhere near West London you are welcome to come and see it in a live environment, just pm me.

I would be getting the open learning module (best to know how to use IRIS to its full potential) and also get IRIS to set up PM exactly how I want it to be set up.  I am not a total novice in IRIS as the 16 years or so I worked in practice I used IRIS to do accounts and tax all the time with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 years.  Though I do know it has changed a lot since last used about 3 years ago.

Thats why posted on here the question to get other thoughts.  I think it would probably take a weekend to put everything on.  Can save time importing Ltd company details from Companies House..

Thanks for the offer of coming to see how it works.  I will be in London next month but only a 2 day flying visit to Accountex so wouldnt have time to see it.

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By MBK
09th Apr 2015 13:32

It seems everyone is either black or white on this

We have around 1,000 clients and I would never go the integrated route - IRIS or otherwise.

Reasons:-

1: Most who use integrated say the benefits are overstated

2: Any time saving you may get from integrated is, I think, outweighed by the time saving you lose from not having the best possible software for each aspect of the practice

3: I don't like the thought of being beholden to a single supplier. If they pi**ed me off it would be almost impossible to move

We find that, with the implementation of a few key disciplines / controls there is no loss of integrity of the data across the various software packages we use.

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
09th Apr 2015 14:40

Undecided

I currently use VT for accounts and BTC for corporate and personal tax, both work pretty well and are easy to learn and straight forward to use.

After a few niggles and issues I decided to look at alternatives and specifically integrated solutions.

I spent 2 weeks reviewing Iris, Keytime and Absolute.

I can see the benefits of each, however in the case of Iris, which is what I spent most of time reviewing, you need to be aware that the way the software works is distinctly different and more complex than Taxcalc (which I have used).

My advice would be to have an online demonstration, get access to the system so you can try it (you can get remote access to a test system) and spend up to a week using it.

Also consider whether Iris is the right package for your business - Iris is a very powerful product and may be overkill for your practice depending on the size and type of clients you have. You would probably never use the bulk of what is available (and you pay for).

I've held off at present as I'm not convinced that the apparent benefits (integration) are worth moving from systems which:

1. Are straight forward to use.

2. I'm very efficient with.

3. Cost less than half the price (not a deciding factor).

Added to this is the down time I would have to migrate and check data, then familiarise myself with the new systems.

If I do change (I plan to review again later this year) I would anticipate 2-3 months of having both systems live and will bank on having at least 50% non chargeable time for a couple of months.

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Replying to Manchester_man:
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By HeavyMetalMike
09th Apr 2015 15:05

I have just left Iris after 7 years.  Support not as good as it was - when it was PTP.

And too pricey.

I've now saved £800 or so and am now in a position  go out 8 times with the Mrs (I refer to my previous query about leaving Iris when some of tightwad accountants were content to spend £20 per couple!!)

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Replying to Manchester_man:
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By marks
09th Apr 2015 22:56

thanks

Kent accountant wrote:

My advice would be to have an online demonstration, get access to the system so you can try it (you can get remote access to a test system) and spend up to a week using it.

Thanks, have had a few online demos and currently got 2 week remote access to test system but have been that busy only really spent a couple of hours looking at it.

There is no way I could spend up to a week just playing about with it.

I will get them to set up the trial again when I am back from holiday next week, then stick a couple of ltd co, sole trader, partnership, tax return only clients on and play about with it. 

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By Hannah Carlisle
09th Apr 2015 15:09

Interesting

Really interesting thread, will keep looking back for answers. 

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By nmprobinson
09th Apr 2015 21:46

MBK...
...what software do you use please?

I'm currently a VT and BTC user with 600 clients. We moved from Iris around 3 years ago.

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By nmprobinson
09th Apr 2015 22:49

BTC...
You get all that with BTC and Taxcalc (I think).

I don't buy into this integrated nonsense.

You don't need Iris for that. For example even now on your spreadsheet why not have all the clients email addresses? Then you can copy and paste those into a year end email template. That would take 5 mins.

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Replying to tom123:
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By marks
09th Apr 2015 23:33

thanks nick

nmprobinson wrote:
For example even now on your spreadsheet why not have all the clients email addresses? Then you can copy and paste those into a year end email template. That would take 5 mins.

I do have all the emails in my master spreadsheet.

I would set up an email template If knew how to do this. Must admit I am a microsoft office novice.  Pivot tables and v-looks ups is advanced in my book.

You may remember it was me who contacted you a year ago to get your web designers details as liked your website.  You then changed your website a couple of weeks later. Like your new website.

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Replying to smdavies:
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By cparker87
10th Apr 2015 00:31

Mail merge

marks wrote:

nmprobinson wrote:
For example even now on your spreadsheet why not have all the clients email addresses? Then you can copy and paste those into a year end email template. That would take 5 mins.

I do have all the emails in my master spreadsheet.

I would set up an email template If knew how to do this. Must admit I am a microsoft office novice.  Pivot tables and v-looks ups is advanced in my book.

You may remember it was me who contacted you a year ago to get your web designers details as liked your website.  You then changed your website a couple of weeks later. Like your new website.

I don't think that you can "email merge" but you can certainly do a normal mail merge from your excel spreadsheet data. Do you have a standard letter requesting information? Might be worth having a quick google. It could save you thousands.

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By marks
09th Apr 2015 23:22

thanks all

Thanks to all for taking the time to reply.

When I started out I used VT and taxcalc as was cheap and did the job for the 30-40 clients I had then.

I moved from VT accounts to Taxcalc accounts about 18 months ago and if was just accounts and tax was needing then would be happy to stay as it easy to use, the simplestep tax process is good and they listen to what you say.  I said to them a month ago that their variance report was wrong in that the % variance denominator was based on the current year rather than the previous year.  They took this on board and have updated now to show the correct variance calculation in the new release that came out a few weeks ago.

However it isnt just the accounts and tax that need to consider but also the following;

1. Timesheets - these can take me a couple of hours each month to  cut and paste onto individual clients cards plus when the job is done you cant just click a button to see the total time on the job to date.  IRIS would sort this problem.  Probably save 25-30 hours each year.

2. PM would be more efficient and wouldnt need to keep spreadsheets of jobs in progress, tasks to be done each month eg payroll, VAT returns, accounts to be submitted, accounts due in 3 months time, accounting periods just finished and make sure they are continually updated as appropriate.  This could save 50-60 hours per year.

3. When finalising the accounts and tax return could click a button a button to do the cover letter in the knowledge that all the details and figures in the letter are correct then push through to openspace for client to electronically sign.  Could also use openspace to upload documents securely to clients eg payslip rather than emailing them.  Clients could also upload documents via openspace rather than emailing over or saving in dropbox or googledoc. This could save maybe 40 hours a year.  Clients currently think I am IT savvy given use Xero, Hellosign, Receipt Bank, GoToMeeting etc.  Client was in the other day and he mentioned that signing everything electronically is so much more efficient and easier than having to come in to physically sign the accounts which is what he did with his previous accounta.t

4. Being able to click a button to get a clear overview of where everything is and what needs to be done.  This would be updated automatically on IRIS with lodging at CH and HMRC.  So means dont need to rely on myself to update spreadsheets.  This might save 20 hours a year.

The above is just off the top of my head savings that I think can be made using a fully integrated system that integrates accounts, tax, PM, timesheets, automail, online correspondence with clients.  

Total saving over year is say 150 hours or say 12 per month.  My employee would save maybe 50 hours per year so between us that is 200 hours which equates to about £10k of chargeable time that we could actually use turnaround jobs quicker or take on more work. I reckon using IRIS we can confortably do 200 clients between us.  If went beyond that I think we will need another employee when we get to about 250 clients.

The additional cost of IRIS over what we pay the now is about £3k (net) which seems to be a no brainer if it all works as it should.

 Sorry for rambling on.

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
10th Apr 2015 01:38

We have used Iris ....

Ditto to what OGA said above.

PM is what makes all the difference and is why I used it when my firm, as it was, had hundreds of clients, and why I still use it today, with less than 30.

A few extra bits that I don't think have been mentioned.

I'm just about to upload tailored electronic checklists, produced automatically from last year's returns, to each personal client's Openspace, they then fill out the details for the current year's data and, once we are both happy with it, I download directly into Personal Tax.

One of the most useful jobs to setup in PM is a "New client" job which makes sure they everyone involved knows what needs to be done to cover all the tasks necessary. This includes the production of Money Laundering checklists and Risk assessments from Automail.

If you employ staff you can also create standard planning and review checklists at relevant stages of the accounts and tax return prep.

Each year the relevant person can be prompted by a task in PM, to send out a tailored reminder to each client for the information you need and this is easily edited at the end of each year's work, ready for next year.

Top tip for anyone using PM, create a new member of staff called Client and, whenever a client is required to do something on a job (eg answering queries or signing the accounts), assign that stage to "Client" this enables you to view one screen for a snapshot of everything that is currently outstanding from all clients in the firm.

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Replying to paul.benny:
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By User deleted
10th Apr 2015 02:03

Cool ...

Paul Scholes wrote:

Ditto to what OGA said above.

PM is what makes all the difference and is why I used it when my firm, as it was, had hundreds of clients, and why I still use it today, with less than 30.

A few extra bits that I don't think have been mentioned.

I'm just about to upload tailored electronic checklists, produced automatically from last year's returns, to each personal client's Openspace, they then fill out the details for the current year's data and, once we are both happy with it, I download directly into Personal Tax.

One of the most useful jobs to setup in PM is a "New client" job which makes sure they everyone involved knows what needs to be done to cover all the tasks necessary. This includes the production of Money Laundering checklists and Risk assessments from Automail.

If you employ staff you can also create standard planning and review checklists at relevant stages of the accounts and tax return prep.

Each year the relevant person can be prompted by a task in PM, to send out a tailored reminder to each client for the information you need and this is easily edited at the end of each year's work, ready for next year.

Top tip for anyone using PM, create a new member of staff called Client and, whenever a client is required to do something on a job (eg answering queries or signing the accounts), assign that stage to "Client" this enables you to view one screen for a snapshot of everything that is currently outstanding from all clients in the firm.

... now why didn't I think of that :o)

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Replying to paul.benny:
By ShirleyM
10th Apr 2015 09:49

Standard stuff isn't it?

Paul Scholes wrote:

One of the most useful jobs to setup in PM is a "New client" job which makes sure they everyone involved knows what needs to be done to cover all the tasks necessary. This includes the production of Money Laundering checklists and Risk assessments from Automail.

If you employ staff you can also create standard planning and review checklists at relevant stages of the accounts and tax return prep.

Each year the relevant person can be prompted by a task in PM, to send out a tailored reminder to each client for the information you need and this is easily edited at the end of each year's work, ready for next year.

Top tip for anyone using PM, create a new member of staff called Client and, whenever a client is required to do something on a job (eg answering queries or signing the accounts), assign that stage to "Client" this enables you to view one screen for a snapshot of everything that is currently outstanding from all clients in the firm.

We've had these utilities for years. It's easy enough for anyone with imagination and a little know-how.

PS. we don't pay Iris prices.

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By User deleted
10th Apr 2015 10:48

But not if ...

ShirleyM wrote:

Paul Scholes wrote:

One of the most useful jobs to setup in PM is a "New client" job which makes sure they everyone involved knows what needs to be done to cover all the tasks necessary. This includes the production of Money Laundering checklists and Risk assessments from Automail.

If you employ staff you can also create standard planning and review checklists at relevant stages of the accounts and tax return prep.

Each year the relevant person can be prompted by a task in PM, to send out a tailored reminder to each client for the information you need and this is easily edited at the end of each year's work, ready for next year.

Top tip for anyone using PM, create a new member of staff called Client and, whenever a client is required to do something on a job (eg answering queries or signing the accounts), assign that stage to "Client" this enables you to view one screen for a snapshot of everything that is currently outstanding from all clients in the firm.

We've had these utilities for years. It's easy enough for anyone with imagination and a little know-how.

PS. we don't pay Iris prices.

... you have no imagination (we are accountants after all :o ) and zero know how. I don't find these things easy, and don't have the time to sit and devise them anyway. Most importantly, I don't have the inclination, Iknow you have programming experience so it may be something you enjoy, I hate that type of thing so IRIS was such a blessed relied when the PM module came along. I want to prepare accounts and tax returns and advise clients, the less effort I need to put in to PM the better (in terms of data collection that is, rather than data interpretation).

The thing with IRIS is a large part of the PM checklists self complete when things are done (tax returns filed, accounts filed, checklists sent, letters sent, etc. etc.)and automatically rollover for recurring procedures, it really it a lot easier than messing around with spreadsheets and templates, plus they are available accross ever user instantly, with the bonus that every report ever generated from IRIS, and that includes e-mails and letters if Automail has been used is 3 click away, from any module, just click view client, communication tab and there they all are (and you can import any other client document so it is available there too (along with notes from telephone calls, filenotes etc.)You don't need any imagination or know how, and the lists can be tailored by partner or manager, in to client groups, you can set a myriad of attributes, like whether they play golf, whether than take up the fee protection, how they found you, what book-keeping system they have and so on and so forth so you can sort them as you need so you can tailor your information to those who need it.

 

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By nmprobinson
10th Apr 2015 01:50

Email merge?
You wouldn't need to do that. Just cut and paste the email addresses into the bcc box. Based on OP number of clirnts this would be fine.

Thanks re website. I do think there are good options for what you need without the expense of Iris - but you seem to have made your mind up.

We did just what you're doing but left Iris 3 years ago.

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By petersaxton
10th Apr 2015 04:18

Integration

I agree with what OGA and Paul say about Practice Management and integration. They use Iris and I use Digita. I know OGA says Digita isn't "true" integration and I understand why he says it but it acts like it's integrated with me subject to sometimes you have to accept the updating integration - but it's a check so that you can see what changes are planned.

My understanding is of Digita.

One big advantage of integration is that you can easily keep timesheets - you mark the time on an Outlook-like calendar - and this means you can check profitability of all jobs immediately at any time. The timesheets are completed in seconds given you can allocate time to clients by quick searches.

I think there's three main differences between Digita and Iris:

1 Re practice management - Iris works better out of the box but it is more rigid whereas Digita is more flexible but needs some thought to get the maximum benefit out of it.

2. Although my experience of Iris technical support is limited to Irisopenbooks, I found that the service was poor. Digita's technical support is first class. I learn what I use regularly but if I rarely use a feature it makes more sense to phone technical support and they will explain how to use the more obscure features. Digita has a detailed support website with a mass of information.

3 Iris is more expensive than Digita which is more expensive than the standalone packages.

What I like about Digita is that you can do anything with it. Top 10 practices use it. If I have the need for something obscure in the accounts Digita can handle it. As I said above, it may make more sense to phone technical support than work it out myself.

Some people say: "My software is so easy that I never need to phone support". That usually means it can't do all the things that Digita can do!

Besides the "basic" Digita Practice Management - which I haven't outgrown - there is an Advanced Practice Management which might be useful for bigger practices.

There's also an Advanced Corporation Tax which can be used and paid for for only a small number of clients if that's all you require it for.

Every year Digita have meetings where their users can attend and get told about their plans for the software. They also have smaller meetings and ask for comments and ideas and put these into action.

I've been with Digita for eleven years and their prices have hardly increased at all. In that time I think they've only made one blunder - their upgrade of Accounts Production to include iXBRL - which slowed the product down and required a lot more support requests. Digita responded quickly and increased the number of experienced technical support personnel - you can talk to the programmers if needed - and prepared plenty of videos to explain the changes as well as quickly producing a upgraded faster product.

I'd love to use Digita more than I do at present but I am concentrating on client work - chicken and egg situation! I would like to have their Data Mining product which would be very useful identifying extra services to offer particular clients and sending targeted information.

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By thomas34
10th Apr 2015 09:31

Iris

If you opt for or stay with Iris you may need to read the small print of their contract. When I had the misfortune to use their tax return product because of them taking over PTP they had an "auto-renewal" clause in their contract (I was happy with the product but not the price).

They needed a 90 day notice of cancellation of the contract or it was deemed to be renewed. I believed at the time (and still do) that the clause was of debatable enforcement but to be safe I cancelled at least 90 days before renewal and repurchased the product at renewal. The sales people at Iris were bemused by my actions but I'd covered myself.

I must agree with MBK that to be beholden to one supplier may not be the best decision in the long run.

 

 

 

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
10th Apr 2015 10:28

RTQ

@marks - I don't think anyone has actually answered your question, i.e. moved from smaller software packages to Iris.

Lots of Iris supporters and plenty of best of breed fans have commented, along with a few who have moved away from Iris.

Wonder if that means something?

Anyway I think this is a moot point as judging from your replies to various posts it seems as though you've made your mind up.

Good luck with the move and let us know how you get on.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By marks
10th Apr 2015 22:30

not yet made up mind

Kent accountant wrote:

Anyway I think this is a moot point as judging from your replies to various posts it seems as though you've made your mind up.

Good luck with the move and let us know how you get on.

Havent made up my mind yet.  

They have given me the price for a 2 user bundle but i just need 2 users for accounts prod, PM and time and fees, dont need 2 users for business tax, personal tax and auto mail as unlikely both myself and employee will need to access this at the same time.  They also have a initial joining fee but I'm not joining a golf club so wont be paying that.

They have given me a price and have given them what modules I am looking for and the price I am willing to pay.

Up to them whether they take my offer or not.

I will also want to fix fees for 3 years as not interested in the situation where 5-10% gets added onto the annual fee without any reason.

Though April is their year end so expect they will be keen to push sales through before the year end.

Failing that can always get a deal next month when at Acccountex.  As all the exhibitiors have offers on their services. 

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Replying to Kevin75:
By petersaxton
10th Apr 2015 23:04

Digita again

marks wrote:

Kent accountant wrote:

Anyway I think this is a moot point as judging from your replies to various posts it seems as though you've made your mind up.

Good luck with the move and let us know how you get on.

Havent made up my mind yet.  

They have given me the price for a 2 user bundle but i just need 2 users for accounts prod, PM and time and fees, dont need 2 users for business tax, personal tax and auto mail as unlikely both myself and employee will need to access this at the same time.  They also have a initial joining fee but I'm not joining a golf club so wont be paying that.

They have given me a price and have given them what modules I am looking for and the price I am willing to pay.

Up to them whether they take my offer or not.

I will also want to fix fees for 3 years as not interested in the situation where 5-10% gets added onto the annual fee without any reason.

Though April is their year end so expect they will be keen to push sales through before the year end.

Failing that can always get a deal next month when at Acccountex.  As all the exhibitiors have offers on their services. 

This is why I like Digita's pricing. You have a price for each program separately. So you could have a two user licence for Accounts Production, Practice Management and Time and Fees and a once user licence for the rest.

It's similar with clients. You can have different bands of clients for different programs. You could have 1,000 personal tax return client licences and only 100 accounts production client licences if that suited you. You don't have to up the band for clients until you start using them and I find that you can save money by natural wastage and not using a client for software until you need to.

The bad news is that you have an initial joining fee which is about the same as the yearly subscription. I would suspect you would make use of technical support more in the first year so it seems reasonable. Not sure what golf clubs have to do with it.

I'm not in any fixed fee deal but I've not noticed prices rising very much.

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Replying to SXGuy:
avatar
By User deleted
11th Apr 2015 00:39

And ....

petersaxton wrote:

marks wrote:

Kent accountant wrote:

Anyway I think this is a moot point as judging from your replies to various posts it seems as though you've made your mind up.

Good luck with the move and let us know how you get on.

Havent made up my mind yet.  

They have given me the price for a 2 user bundle but i just need 2 users for accounts prod, PM and time and fees, dont need 2 users for business tax, personal tax and auto mail as unlikely both myself and employee will need to access this at the same time.  They also have a initial joining fee but I'm not joining a golf club so wont be paying that.

They have given me a price and have given them what modules I am looking for and the price I am willing to pay.

Up to them whether they take my offer or not.

I will also want to fix fees for 3 years as not interested in the situation where 5-10% gets added onto the annual fee without any reason.

Though April is their year end so expect they will be keen to push sales through before the year end.

Failing that can always get a deal next month when at Acccountex.  As all the exhibitiors have offers on their services. 

This is why I like Digita's pricing. You have a price for each program separately. So you could have a two user licence for Accounts Production, Practice Management and Time and Fees and a once user licence for the rest.

It's similar with clients. You can have different bands of clients for different programs. You could have 1,000 personal tax return client licences and only 100 accounts production client licences if that suited you. You don't have to up the band for clients until you start using them and I find that you can save money by natural wastage and not using a client for software until you need to.

The bad news is that you have an initial joining fee which is about the same as the yearly subscription. I would suspect you would make use of technical support more in the first year so it seems reasonable. Not sure what golf clubs have to do with it.

I'm not in any fixed fee deal but I've not noticed prices rising very much.

... this is exactly what you do with IRIS, you have different numbers of users for each module, everyone would have practice management, may be one co sec, etc. You also have bands of clients to a point, then you get unlimited clients. You can also have it hosted by IRIS which may appeal to some.

I reckon with Kashflow or Freeagent and IRIS, if you kept a good eye during the year you could get ltd accounts, CT600 and 2 directors tax returns out in an hour or so, 2 max, depending on disclosures required and complexity.

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By petersaxton
10th Apr 2015 10:31

Integration

With integration it is a lot easier to set up any utilities for all or a selection of clients and sort to check which clients don't have a specific utility.

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By nmprobinson
10th Apr 2015 10:37

Integration
One thing I've learned over the years having used most products - Iris, Keytime, Absolute, now with BTC and VT - is don't get too focused on integration.

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By ShirleyM
10th Apr 2015 10:57

Any decent PM module will have the same utilities

I looked at a few PM modules (both standalone and integrated), to see if they were better than our current system, and they all do those simple tasks like having tailorable check/task lists, requeuing completed jobs, being able to transfer jobs between employees, logging time, etc.

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By petersaxton
10th Apr 2015 12:16

New client

You enter the address once in integrated system.

In standalone you enter it in personal tax, company tax, company secretarial. accounts production, practice management and any other modules you have. 

Same with email address and other information. Same with changes.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
By ShirleyM
10th Apr 2015 12:40

Quite true, Peter

petersaxton wrote:

You enter the address once in integrated system.

In standalone you enter it in personal tax, company tax, company secretarial. accounts production, practice management and any other modules you have. 

Same with email address and other information. Same with changes.

But it only takes a few minutes with our systems, but we save hours on each recurring job by using quick 'best of breed' software.

ps. That's my opinion, and no way would I give up VT or Taxfiler for anything else. I've looked at commercial PM modules, and they are all time heavy in comparison to my own PM. They do have one or two features that would be quicker than my own, but they are things that are used infrequently. The regular day to day stuff is really quick on our bespoke system and it's the frequent and regular tasks where you need the greatest time saving.

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By MBK
10th Apr 2015 15:00

@nmprobinson

Isn't it interesting how opinions are divided?!!

We use:-

Tax - CCH

Accounts - Caseware

PM - Logical Office

Timesheets - PMP (small minority, but brilliant for us, product)

Would love to use products like VT and Taxfiler, but they aren't up to doing the job we need for our client base.

We are totally convinced that we save loads of time (for example) doing accounts in Caseware as opposed to (say) Iris. Based on staff and incoming partner past experiences plus discussions with our friendly local competition. 

The small amount of additional time we spend dealing  with entering the VERY limited data which is common to each part of the software when we take on a new client or there's a change is a minor irritation compared with the efficiency we think we get. and it never actually causes us a problem because we have robust systems which we insist everyone uses.

But I do accept it's horses for courses.

 

 

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Replying to Wanderer:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
10th Apr 2015 16:49

CCH personal tax

MBK wrote:

Isn't it interesting how opinions are divided?!!

We use:-

Tax - CCH

I used CCH personal tax many years ago. Without doubt it was the most buggy software I have ever had to use. It may well have improved since then, of course.

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Logo
By marks
10th Apr 2015 22:41

lots of different views

As with most things in like we all have our own opinions and preferences.

Some people love IRIS.  

Some people love digita, keytime, BTC.

Some people love the best of breed approach.

Unfortunately no one seems to be in my position as in having about 200 clients, have used another software to get up and running as well as spreadsheets/their knowledge of the client for the PM and other stuff that you do.

Just interested in whether anyone in that position has moved to IRIS and saved the average of 22 hours per month per user that the claim on their website.

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
By petersaxton
10th Apr 2015 23:13

About 200 clients and just me

marks wrote:

As with most things in like we all have our own opinions and preferences.

Some people love IRIS.  

Some people love digita, keytime, BTC.

Some people love the best of breed approach.

Unfortunately no one seems to be in my position as in having about 200 clients, have used another software to get up and running as well as spreadsheets/their knowledge of the client for the PM and other stuff that you do.

Just interested in whether anyone in that position has moved to IRIS and saved the average of 22 hours per month per user that the claim on their website.

I've got around 200 clients now but I used to use TaxCalc for personal tax - about 11 years ago so I think there's been big changes - and used Word and Excel for accounts production and tax computations. That would take ages!

Eleven years ago I moved to Digita and it takes me about 15/30 minutes for personal tax and a couple of hours for accounts production and corporation tax. On top of that I have to spend time on preparing an extended trial balance and journals and bank/credit card analysis but I am now moving clients over to Clear Books. A few still use QuickBooks desktop or Irisopenbooks (ie FreeAgent). I would think that I would easily save five hours per week and most likely a lot more but I was working very inefficiently in the past. I spend most of my time in discussions with clients rather than accounts/tax/payroll work though.

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
11th Apr 2015 00:19

200 clients

Well I have around 70 limited companies and do about 100 SATR's each year.

I started with Taxcalc and VT.

I now use BTC and VT.

BTC has a PM module which appears very good, at the moment I use it very little but am looking to use it more over the next year.

It has reports which allow me to view the status of all tax returns and company accounts (latter would be more useful if I used their accounts production module (intend to look at that more closely next week).

Also reports for when vat returns, annual returns etc are due.

I have amended the templates for engagement letters so they match my own, they can then be sent out with a few clicks.

I use IrisOpenspace so little need to print anything.

I do still use spreadsheets but really just to plan work - I like to see a visual of work to be done and when - I set out certain client accounts I want to complete each month and then I request information a couple of months in advance so works flows nicely throughout the year.

Timesheets? - well thats another marmite subject, personally I record my time but only as a means of seeing my recovery rates on each client. A means of making sure I work efficiently and also to bump fees up when needed.

Chargeable time is around 65% which I'm happy with.

Efficiency - pretty happy with it and can see it improving. I'll shortly be approaching my 4 year anniversary and I'm still learning things about running a practice.

Client numbers - gradual growth say 5-10 (net) good clients a year would be nice but not essential, average fee around £750 - £1,500.

I won't be taking on staff, I have occasional help - 2 days a month max.

The more this thread develops the less I feel the need to change what I'm doing.

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
11th Apr 2015 12:06

Users on IRIS

IRIS counts only simultaneous users, not the number of workstations from which the programs can be accessed.  If you can arrange to have not more than one person using IRIS at the same time, you need to pay for only one user.

I am also puzzled by the 'integrated' vs. 'best of breed' comments.  Those of us who use the 'integrated' IRIS software believe it to be 'best of breed'.

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Replying to Wanderer:
By nmprobinson
11th Apr 2015 12:25

"best of Breed"??

Euan MacLennan wrote:

IRIS counts only simultaneous users, not the number of workstations from which the programs can be accessed.  If you can arrange to have not more than one person using IRIS at the same time, you need to pay for only one user.

I am also puzzled by the 'integrated' vs. 'best of breed' comments.  Those of us who use the 'integrated' IRIS software believe it to be 'best of breed'.

I agree that Iris is a good product but it is very rare in any field to have a product that does several things and for all ALL those things to be the best.  Iris is a good product but I doubt the best in all factors.

Having used both Iris and the so called "best of breed" products I must say that I am extremely happy with my switch to BTC and VT.  Not just the cost (which is around a 1/5th of what I was paying) but I believe the overall products are giving me exactly what I need.

We used Iris for several years and I can say from experience we are saving time on accounts prep and tax returns.  Yes we have a small amount of duplication but this is minimal in terms of time.

I felt Iris did too much for what I needed.  Even though I have around 600 clients these are all managed very well using these other systems.

The OP asked for opinions from AWeb users who had switched from the cheaper alternatives to Iris.  I doubt you'll find many that have.  What you will get on here is a broad spectrum of opinion - all probably justified - but ultimately the Iris and Digita users are ones that have been using for many many years.

You seem to have made your mind up and I am sure we are all intrigued to see how you get on!

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By jon_griffey
11th Apr 2015 20:12

Integration is the key

I don’t get this best of breed mantra. The devil in any business is keeping databases up to date. If the client moves address do you really want to be updating it in 6 different programs?  You would need tight controls to maintain integrity of each database.

I love the fact that with Iris, you can post the accounts in accounts production, then open up business tax and the tax comp with the correct profit figure and disallowables is already there.  For a partnership, then press the button and the figures are exported to the personal tax returns.  Who doesn’t want this?

We are in the process of rolling out Iris practice management and early signs are that this is the killer app.  Being an integrated database, you open up a new client in personal tax or accounts production and start posting and they then pop up in PM with the correct year end and statutory deadline etc.  What I am saying is that for a PM system to function properly it needs to see what is going on in each part of the practice. As your practice grows you need to be able maintain control of this stuff and this integration is a godsend.  If you have software from 5 different suppliers you might as well carry on using a spreadsheet if you are going to manually have to update your PM system all the time,

A very powerful part of PM is the data mining function.  I have found this an invaluable  tool for  tidying up the database before implementing PM, such as getting rid of ex clients.  You can interrogate the database with extensive criteria to pull up say limited company clients who have not had accounts done for X years, who have Mr Y as partner, are a client of time and fees, but not business tax who were incorporated before DDMMYY and so forth.  There are numerous ways to interrogate the data moving forwards, such as pulling up a list of clients who have a turnover of over £80K and are not VAT registered.

My view is that Iris is not the cheap option but you need to factor in the time savings. If you are serious about your practice you need serious software which will grow with you.   We reached the point a few years ago when we had to buy the modular licence, i.e. with unlimited clients.  Once you reach this stage there is no marginal cost and so the cost per client starts to fall substantially.

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By nmprobinson
11th Apr 2015 20:53

Time savings...?
Jon. I think we all appreciate Iris is a good piece of software. But so are VT, BTC.

But...I can't back you on the time savings offered by Iris.

In my experience we save time now with BTC and VT.

We do not have 6 databases. We have 1 - BTC.

I think what we all should accept is that we are all happy with our software. It's not an argument that any of us can win!! We are all right.

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Replying to kevinringer:
Logo
By marks
11th Apr 2015 22:10

2nd that

nmprobinson wrote:
J I think what we all should accept is that we are all happy with our software. It's not an argument that any of us can win!! We are all right.

Agree with the above Nick.

We all have our own opinion and experiences so we cant really say there is one system that is the best.

For some VT and taxfiler/taxcalc will be best.

For some VT and BTC will be best.

For some IRIS or Digita.

etc etc.

If taxcalc had some decent PM and timesheet facility then I would stay with them.  As I prefer their accounts and tax package over IRIS.  Find it really easy to use and like the fact you can have multiple years and multiple clients open at any point in time.

But I am at the stage where I need to either save myself time updating spreadsheets or take on another employee.

Also as you get to 200 clients it becomes more difficult to keep a track on account filing deadlines, VAT return deadlines, what payroll still to be done, what stage a personal tax return is at etc etc.

So I am at the stage where I need a fully integrated system that you just update records once and flows through everywhere else and can see at a click the stages of all jobs and what has been filed and what hasnt.  That can do customised letters at a click of a button, has integrated time and fees function and you can upload documents via a portal for clients to sign and share.

Having used IRIS before I believe it is the best in a single fully integrated system.  Some will agree with that others wont.  The thing is no one is right or wrong.

I am happy to pay 4 times what I paying the now as if I can save even 10 hours a month based on what I do the now it will more that cover the extra cost meaning can take on more clients without taking on another staff member.

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Replying to kevinringer:
By jon_griffey
13th Apr 2015 09:06

Sage

nmprobinson wrote:
I think what we all should accept is that we are all happy with our software. It's not an argument that any of us can win!! We are all right.

Indeed.  Hopefully all this debate is very useful for the OP and will help them make the right decision.

One very noticeable thing in this thread though is the lack of anyone speaking up for Sage.

 

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Replying to spilly:
avatar
By DMGbus
13th Apr 2015 13:54

Sage experience

[/quote]

Indeed.  Hopefully all this debate is very useful for the OP and will help them make the right decision.

One very noticeable thing in this thread though is the lack of anyone speaking up for Sage.

[/quote]

I really wish that I could speak up for Sage as then work life would really would be easier, instead we have a jumble of bought-in-by-Sage software products all now carrying the Sage banner linked via Sage Practice Solution.    There is in fact some benefit, since in one or two products addresses will be updated automatically in two out of four or five necessary places by inputting once.    What I perceive the SPS set up is particularly lacking is in "to do" lists / alerts and similar so we have to use MS Outlook and Excel progress / deadline lists to make up for Sage softare (SPS) shortcomings.   When I hear of others saying that their accounts software produces iXBRL data in a one-click process I really wonder is this truly possible? - Sage's programmers clearly lack full iXBRL competence as their output needs time-consuming checking/reviewing/manual input with somethings highlighted in green and others in orange to show where Sage's program is short on functionality.

Personally above is why I personally could not possibly speak up for Sage - I wish things were different, but I have to speak as they are.

Here is a good example of Sage garabage - a company has no secretary so a director signs the directors report - special computer code is required to be input by the user as follows to cope with this:

1024x768

Normal

false
false
false

/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0cm;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}

ROPs – select directors report – find the sig line and then in the grey column change secretary to reportpad (click on + drop down menu)

 

Then go to report pads…

 

Report Pads, select directors report and scroll down to Signatory, click on Signatory…

 

// Warning: please do not remove [def block] and [end block] statements as these control pagination.
[def block]
//[tab 40]
[xbrl "uk-bus:NameEntityOfficer", officer="Director1"]J Smith[end xbrl]
//[tab 40][xbrl "uk-bus:NameEntityOfficer", officer="Director2"]** Name (line 2) **[end xbrl]

//[tab 40 ]
director
[end block]

 

The highlighted text has to be typed in manually – director’s name who signs directors report

My guess is that some practices actually do get on with Sage, perhaps they're happy with what I find unsatisafactory, or just maybe AWeb is more used by smaller practices that don't use Sage as an integrated "solution" as cost-effectiveness is more important than blind allegiance to a single brand.

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By nmprobinson
11th Apr 2015 22:38

Time...
I just can't see how you will save time?

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By BigBadWolf
13th Apr 2015 12:34

Time

You also have to factor in the extra amount time producing a set of accounts in Iris will take v/s Taxcalc, and the amount of time it will take to migrate and implement Iris.

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