P111D expenses and partnership

P111D expenses and partnership

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Where do I enter P11D expenses on the self assessment return? I am not employed or self employed but I have partnership profit in 2013/14. Expenses are circa 10k and I submitted a S335 claim back in July. There is nowhere in the partnership section to enter expenses? Thanks in advance.

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By Accounting-rookie
27th Dec 2014 23:03

Not employed?
P11d?

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James Reeves
By James Reeves
28th Dec 2014 01:46

Partnership profit

To fill in the SA104F or SA104S partnership form, you must copy in your share of the amounts from the partnership statement which was included in the SA800 partnership return submitted for the year. You may need to make certain adjustments (basis periods, overlap relief, losses b/fwd etc) but all partnership expenses will have already been included in those figures so no further entry is necessary on your personal return.

If you have not received a partnership statement, you will need to obtain one from the partner who was responsible for submitting the partnership return.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Dec 2014 09:56

P11D

If you're not employed, you shouldn't have a P11D.  They're only for employees.

If you have a P11D, you must be employed.

You need to rephrase the question as it currently makes no sense.

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By DKB-Sheffield
28th Dec 2014 13:09

Suggestion...

Hi,

Firstly, were you a partner or were you employed by the partnership?

As everyone has said, you will only have a P11D for employment. Expenses from the partnership would have been taxed or disallowed under the partnership profits (and therefore, the partnership statement) on the SA104 pages.

A suggested scenario would perhaps be where you are employed as a director of a limited company and only received BIK (hence the P11D). In that case, you would be "employed" just without any other remuneration and a separate "employment" should be "created" on the return for reporting of the expenses/ benefits.

In addition, you state that you made a s335 claim (I assume under CITR scheme?). What period does this claim relate to? If it is a prior tax year (which I am pretty sure it must be), the claim is for the prior tax year and would not be entered on this year's return.

Please clarify as follows:

1. If you are a partner or employee in the partnership
2. Where your P11D came from (i.e. the employer)
3. What year your s335 claim related to and whether this claim is the £10K in question
4. Any other info you may feel relevant.As it is, we currently have little to go on in providing any information other than "what-if" advice.

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By Hillyard
28th Dec 2014 17:38

DKB

. I was a partner for the period 

2. The P11d was submitted by the 'responsible' partner

3. My mistake - a typo s/be s336 claim. It was for the £10k amount and tax year in question

4. My share of profits ~ £10k

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RLI
By lionofludesch
29th Dec 2014 10:36

No P11D

Sorry, Hillyard.  You shouldn't have a P11D  Your "responsible partner" has made a mistake in submitting one.

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By neileg
29th Dec 2014 14:12

Mmm...

It is possible that you were both employed and a partner in the same year with a part year applying to each of these. This would explain having a P11D and a partnership share and mean that you would have an employment page with earnings and P11D benefits and a self employment page with your partnership share.

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By King_Maker
29th Dec 2014 14:24

Salaried Partner?

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By DKB-Sheffield
29th Dec 2014 17:24

@ Hillyard

Okay...

1. If you were not employed at any stage in the year to which you are referring, lionofludesch is correct, you should not have received a P11D

2. If you were employed (i.e. not a partner) at any time in the 2013/14 tax year (which I assume is what neileg is suggesting), you will have received wages through PAYE and will have either a P60 or (I hope to be more likely) a P45 to show this (if this is the case, see the "If you were employed..." section below).

Assuming you were just an employee

3. For a standard partnership, you should not have been an employee and partner at the same time. If the partnership is actually an LLP things may have been different but, we must assume that your not mentioning an LLP means that it isn't.

4. So assuming you were simply a partner, your expenses have been reported through a P11D incorrectly and hence, your "responsible partner" (or perhaps we should say "irresponsible partner") should correct this with HMRC (I am assuming you are not the only one for whom the mistake was made)

5. Do not enter the P11D anywhere on your tax return.

6. From a tax perspective, assuming all of the expenses included on the P11D were included on the s336 (e.g. £10K P11D = £10K s336), and assuming HMRC have accepted the claim, the tax office are not looking collect any additional taxes in this regard.

7. If there is a variance between P11D and s336, the removal of the P11D by the "responsible partner" will correct this (it would always be worth a quick call to HMRC to check the P11D and s336 claim are no longer on your record - although, do give it time for processing to occur and for the records to update).

8. The correct allocation of allowable and disallowed expenditure is the responsibility of the partnership. These figures are used in calculating the taxable profit. Your share of that profit is the £10K you alluded and it is this which is recorded on your tax return partnership pages.

9. In practice, if you have "withdrawn" disallowed expenses, these may be reflected in your capital account so, as an example, your partnership profit allocation is £10K (CR your capital account by £10K), you withdrew £2K in disallowed expenses (DR your capital account by £2K) leaving £8K in your capital account.

If you were employed during the period...

10. Things will be slightly different as you will have employment pages in your return to match the values on your P45 or P60 and the reporting of expenses on a P11D may be correct.

11. The P11D should only account for expenses throughout the period of employment and hence, if you ceased to be employed ion 31/08/2013 and became a partner on 01/09/2013, your P11D should contain figures from 06/04/2013 - 31/08/2013 only.

12. You would record the P11D and employment income on the employment pages of the return and the £10K partnership profits on the partnership pages.

13. I will say that, the above is in theory. I do not believe you were employed. Nor do I believe, if you were, the £10K in expenses payments on the P11D include any less than a full year of expenses payments.

Limitations...

14. In my posts and those of others, we are working on assumptions and simplified figures. we do not have access to your P11D, accounts, returns or any other documents which would be necessary to provide an accurate or indeed fundamentally correct answer. To that extent, I would advise you to take all of the information you have and seek advice from an accountant. The partnership's accountant would likely be the best option (assuming he/ she is not acting as the "responsible partner").

15. Furthermore, if the partnership does not have an accountant, I would suggest it highly appropriate that you get one as, the apparent fundamental (and somewhat basic) error made by the "responsible partner" would not fill me with confidence when you get to some of the finer parts of partnership accounting.

Hope this helps

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