Pay Date for payrolls under RTI

Pay Date for payrolls under RTI

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My client told me paydate is 23rd of the month. However, I only received his payroll this morning, so I felt obliged to change payroll date to 24th.

I think the payroll should have been run on Friday 21st, with a payroll date of 23rd. Are there going to be penalties next year with small companies not always paying on the day HMRC would expect?

Replies (13)

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By andy.partridge
24th Jun 2013 09:38

Why should there be?

Are you thinking that HMRC demands that employees are paid on the same day each month?

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
24th Jun 2013 10:05

Unlikely

HMRC will know immediately if the FPS has been filed after the pay date specified in the submission, but they would have to conduct a PAYE inspection at the client's premises to discover if the employees had been paid before or after the specified pay date.  They would also know immediately if the specified pay date fell on a non-banking day such as Sunday or even, Saturday, and might be suspicious.  For that reason, we have changed the pay dates on all our end of month payrolls to the preceding working day, so it will be 28th, rather than 30th, June.

In your case, you should enter 24th as the pay date and file the FPS today.

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By Moonbeam
24th Jun 2013 11:00

I did think HMRC expected same payday each month

If HMRC don't expect the same payday each month (allowing for bank hols and weekends) then why do they ask that we use this same day each month? Yes, I know they say the payday is the date companies contract that staff will physically be paid on. Many of my clients don't seem to know what they've agreed in this area, and the date of payment appears to be when they are in the office.

I have filed the FPS dated 24th today, but my question was whether HMRC will take a dim view of the date of payment varying by more than just the odd weekend dates on a regular basis.

Euan has said "unlikely" and that is good enough for me!

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Stephen Quay
By squay
24th Jun 2013 13:48

Payroll Payment Dates

We ask our clients for the date the payroll will be paid and this goes on the payslips so yes, the payment can vary each month by a day or two and is quite acceptable. We try to run the payrolls a few days before this date to eliminate any queries that may arise. As soon as we receive client confirmations the RTI submissions are then made.

We attended an HMRC seminar a month  ago and raised the question about RTI submission dates and pay dates. We were told that so long as the RTI submission was already made it didn't really matter whether the actual payment was made before or after the payslip pay date.

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Replying to Glennzy:
By JCresswellTax
25th Jun 2013 13:28

WHAT????

squay wrote:

 We were told that so long as the RTI submission was already made it didn't really matter whether the actual payment was made before or after the payslip pay date.

 

Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of RTI???

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Replying to johngroganjga:
Stephen Quay
By squay
25th Jun 2013 16:10

Payroll Payment Dates 2

You run the payroll, set the payslip date and submit the FPS. HMRC told us so long as the FPS has been made they didn't see it as problem if the payment was made on a date different to the payslip date.  Naturally we tell our clients not to pay before the date on the payslip but it doesn't appear to make a lot of difference to HMRC if it's paid a day or two early or late so long as the FPS has already been made.

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Replying to CoastalAcc:
By JCresswellTax
26th Jun 2013 09:17

When and how exactly

squay wrote:

HMRC told us so long as the FPS has been made they didn't see it as problem if the payment was made on a date different to the payslip date.  

When and how did HMRC relay this piece of info to you?

We went on two separate HMRC courses on this and also a Rebecca Benneyworth course and have always been told that the payment date must be the same as the payslip date.  Apparently this will be used for Universal Credit purposes.

So either you have been given incorrect advice by HMRC or the advice has changed.  This is VERY IMPORTANT.

Can you clarify further please?

Thanks.

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By andy.partridge
25th Jun 2013 16:32

Frankly

That sounds hogwash.

Yet maybe there is something in it. Maybe HMRC are beginning to realise that this is a rule that is unworkable and are softening us up for a rule change.

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Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
25th Jun 2013 16:48

Hash Tag

The hash tag includes information on the date of payment, so in the relatively unusual case of a payment being made by BACS it would generate a compliance failure if payment doesn't happen on the day reported. HMRC would know about the compliance failure (in theory) because they automatically cross-reference hashtag info from Bacstel-ip with RTI FPS submissions. In practice I'm suspicious that there will be so many such failures that chasing them all is a task that is beyond even HMRC.

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Stephen Quay
By squay
26th Jun 2013 14:12

Payroll Payment Dates 3

It was an HMRC RTI seminar for agents. However it was very informal (only 4 attendees) and in retrospect it was said by the HMRC lecturer as an off the cuff remark when I prompted the question. Perhaps in the light of what has been said here it appears it should not been said at all and certainly cannot be taken as authoritative. We shall continue to tell our clients to pay on the payslip date as we have always done. Maybe then universal credits will stand a chance. 

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By tonycourt
26th Jun 2013 16:18

Matching dates

I apologise now for my ignorance on RTI, but it’s not something I have much to do with. However, for reasons too convoluted to go into here I'm very interested in the quirks and problems that crop up with it. To that end:

Does anyone know what the scale of penalties for late filing of FPS's will be from April 2014?

I'm not clear how HMRC "will know immediately if the FPS has been filed after the pay date" unless payment is being made by BACS (and so is hash tagged) - can anyone explain?

Playing Devil's advocate here - As far as I know while employers must provide a pay statement (s.8 Employment Rights Act) on or before payment of salary etc, which must include certain information, the date of payment isn't a requirement. Naturally any employer in their right mind will want to at least indicate the pay period and in practice the payroll software will requiret you to specify the pay date. This will provide income details for the right period for UC purposes. What I'm getting at is that perhaps what the HMRC bod was saying to squay was that matching of the date of pay and the date on the payslip wasn't anything they have authority over. All they are interested in is that (ignoring any concessions) the FPS is made on or before payment to the employee is made. 

  

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Replying to clara-casa:
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
26th Jun 2013 16:06

Matching dates

tonycourt wrote:

I'm not clear how HMRC "will know immediately if the FPS has been filed after the pay date" unless payment is being made by BACS (and so is hash tagged) - can anyone explain?

Because HMRC knows what day of the month it is and the payment date being a mandatory field in an FPS, even HMRC's programmers should be capable of designing a compliance test to check if the FPSs they receive contain payments on an earlier date.

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By tonycourt
26th Jun 2013 16:21

Light bulb!

Thank's Euan - of course, I wasn't thinking straight, In a late FPS situation unless an employer enters a false payment date he'll be caught bang to rights!

Edit - My comment isn't intended to encourage provision of false data to HMRC!

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