PAYE for a babysitter?

PAYE for a babysitter?

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An ordinary parent paying a babysitter can presumably avoid registering for PAYE on the basis that they'll never pay anyone over the lower earnings limit. But what about if that parent also had a nanny and therefore their own PAYE scheme? Technically that would mean that every time they arranged a babysitter, unless paid via an agency, they'd have to get a P45/P46, issue a payslip, and potentially deduct income tax and (probably fairly unlikely) NI as well? 

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By chatman
29th Aug 2014 10:13

Not an employee

I would have thought a babysitter would fail the employment mutuality-of-obligation test, and therefore not be an employee.

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By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:02

(No subject)

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
29th Aug 2014 10:51

Self-employed child-minders

So are you saying there is no such thing as a self-employed child-minder? Once they have taken responsibility for children, they are obliged to fulfill that responsibility until the children are collected. How is an ad hoc arrangement for a baby-sitter different from this.

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By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:02

(No subject)

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Replying to Ian McTernan CTA:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
29th Aug 2014 11:08

So many self-employments don't work?

Portia Nina Levin wrote:
Is WHERE they look after the little darlings.
On that basis, a lot of self-employments don't work. Many take place on client premises. Many will involve some control over the hours worked (due to requirement to work in office hours, or with certain employees). If I hire a caterer for a party, does who also does the serving themselves, does the fact they have to be there for the duration of the party make them a temporary employee?

EDIT : Your link actually acknowledges careworkers visiting the home can be self-employed by the way.

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By chatman
29th Aug 2014 10:57

I don' t think there is mutuality of obligation

You have no obligation to offer him/her work; (s)he has no obligation to accept work. Therefore not an employee.

Good point on the absence of control though; might fail that test too!

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By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:02

(No subject)

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By chatman
29th Aug 2014 11:07

They don't seem to disagree. Not according to the page you linked to anyway.

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By whatdoyoumeanwashe
29th Aug 2014 11:07

I have to say, if I got a text from a babysitter whilst my wife and I were out enjoying a nice meal to say "I've got your kids out of bed and taken them back to my flat" I'd probably call the police.

This suggests the obligation to offer/accept work is irrelevant to the situation whilst the work is actually happening:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/esmmanual/esm0543.htm 

"The issue whether the worker is required to accept work, if offered, or whether the engager is obliged to offer work as available is irrelevant to the question of whether a contract exists at all during the period when work is actually being performed - see Stephenson v Delphi Diesel Systems at paragraph 14."

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By whatdoyoumeanwashe
29th Aug 2014 11:09

Stephurphan, they don't HAVE to be there - if they phoned you 30 minutes before the party and said they were sending someone else in their place, equally capable to do the work, you probably couldn't, and wouldn't complain. It would be different if a babysitter did that, unless it was done via an agency.

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By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:04

(No subject)

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By whatdoyoumeanwashe
29th Aug 2014 11:13

Let's play nicely please!

I think it's telling of an over-complex tax system that what ought to have been a basic question doesn't seem to have a definitive answer!

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By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:04

(No subject)

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By whatdoyoumeanwashe
29th Aug 2014 11:33

I would tend to agree with you, if they're coming to your home and aren't allowed to leave until you return. My question wasn't really about employment status, it was about PAYE: And so that means if you happen to also have a nanny, you'd be required to pay them via PAYE, even if it was only £20, yes?

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By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:05

(No subject)

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
02nd May 2015 13:05

(No subject)

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By whatdoyoumeanwashe
29th Aug 2014 11:55

For the same reason I don't do extra accounting in the evenings!

Still got to do her a payslip though and file RTI, even if there is no tax or NI deducted. Admin gone mad?

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