Penalty or estimated figures ?

If you have been asking for the information and they could not be bothered, why on earth should you be as to whether they get the penalty. Perhaps receiving it will get them into a proper frame of mind for the future (assuming that you want to keep them as clients)

Send them a letter / email and tell them that in the absence of information from them there is nhow nothing you can do to stop them receiving penalty notices and warn them of the new regime and how the penalties will quickly start to rack up if they continure to do nothing to address the issue

I agree with ACDWebb.  Estimating one or two figures in accounts or tax returns, based on the actual figures for previous years, when they are the only items missing, is probably acceptable, but submitting estimates of everything is pure fabrication and would be completely unprofessional.

We have many clients who for various reasons over the years have not submitted there tax return on time, but we have put in an estimate suggest they pay the tax due and, as long as we then correct this fairly quickly than can not it being a problem. Of course there are those clients who you would never do this for...!

I think it is all about working with your client not against.

It may be about working with your client, but it's a two way street. The OP's client seems to have absolutely no interest in reciprocating.

Presumably you are not advocating submitting estimated returns without the clients approval of same, so the next problem for the OP would be to get that approval.

Historically you might have estimated the liability and got the client to pay so that the penalty was reduced to nothing once the return was eventually submitted. Doing that now of course does not work.

I would think that if you make a habit of submitting estimates in these sort of circumstances and then correcting you run the risk

1. of getting a reputation with HMRC; and
2. of being flagged up as doing this so that the returns are kicked back and not accepted as submitted anyway. Estimates/provisional figures are supposed to have some basis in the reality

As before they sound like D-list clients who one would probably be best shot of anyway. They are making no attempt to meet anywhere close to halfway, so busting a gut for them seems a pointless, and most probably ultimately thankless task

You right about getting rid of D list clients to a degree. Reputation with HMRC is important, but far more supporting helping clients is just as important if not more important. A lot of this is open to opinion and as long as you are on top of things a lot is commonsense - hopefully !

Always look forward to 1st February though !

In OP why is it £500 in penalties and not £400?

thanks

Each partner will get a penalty for late submission of the partnership return.

I would never submit an estimated return without a very valid reason, and laziness, and lack of care about their tax affairs, isn't a valid reason in my book.

I don't think it helps any client to make things up just to get them off the hook they have hung themselves on.

Believe it or not you act for your client and have a duty of care to do your best for him. Whatever happened to professional standards?

have no problem with estimated figures on return....just make sure you make it clear...

when S A first appeared estimates were not allowed if you had time to do the correct figures...however HMRC have encouraged the filing of estimated returns regardless...have even suggested that it should be done to me when I questioned it.

Your get out is that you ran out of time to do it...or you can but the fee is £150.

Agree the tax should be right but draw the line at collecting penalties for HMRC !

the laughable thing is HMRC never check to see if your estimated return is ever corrected.....the whole system is a shambles.

I fully agree Black Knight - no further comment needed !

explained in the White Space, but there are estimates & estimates.

Sure, work with a client, but if they will not work with you, as in the OP's case, then worrying about reputation comes a great deal higher on the list than "collecting penalties for HMRC" .

Not sure if Pawncob is advocating estimates not backed up by anything or not, I assume not with the reference to professional standards. Does your duty of care extend as far as submitting rubbish to HMRC just to save a penalty? Surely not?

I would suggest that your duty is to chivvy them regularly for information and keep warning them of the consequences of burying their head in the sand, doing nothing about the return and the penalties that will inevitably follow.

I suspect that there may be some clients who get a nasty shock this year where we got them out of the penalty hole by getting them to make a reasonable payment  so that there was no net liability and therefore no penalty.