Penalty for paper partnership return filed in December

Penalty for paper partnership return filed in...

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It appears I have screwed up an filed a paper partnership tax return in December 13 when it should have been in by October 13.  There are 3 partners so I now face a £400.  Mea Culpa.  However, as I understand it to be able to file a partnership tax return online I need to purchase third party software - HMRC software does not allow for submission of partnership tax returns.  Is that correct?  In which case it does seem a bit unfair to pay £400 for someone at HMRC to enter this info into a computer - which is what they would have done had it been received 2 months earlier anyway.  Am I way off track?  Has anyone successfully appealed this penalty? I cannot expect my clients to pay it. Thank you

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By pauld
03rd Feb 2014 12:46

basics

You seemed unaware that a penalty would be due until it was issued and you do not have any software to file returns online.????????

If I was you client, I would expect you to pay the fine and then I would be changing accountants as this is very basic knowledge for anyone in practice.

I cannot think of any 'reasonable excuse'? but I do agree that it is unfair that HMRC do not have partnership return software. Perhaps it's worth an appeal on that basis in that you intended to submit it online but only became aware that you could not use HMRC software after the paper deadline date.

 

 

 

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By Howard Marks
03rd Feb 2014 16:11

Pay & apologise

Appeal will come to nothing - the deadlines and filing requirements are there for all to see.

 

Smooth it over with your clients before you lose them.

 

Andica or some other file-only service would've been your solution in Dec.

 

I'd love to say these things happen but they really shouldn't i'm afraid so take it on the chin and mop up asap.

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
03rd Feb 2014 16:19

Look on the bright side

Unless I have missed something, if there are 3 partners, the total penalty is £300, not £400.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By amosprophet
03rd Feb 2014 19:37

not quite right here

Unless I am wrong, the rule is that the penalty is "per return" so

3 partners plus the partnership return = £ 100 * 4 = £ 400?

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Replying to Ruddles:
By aiwalters
03rd Feb 2014 19:45

are you including the partners' personal tax returns?

amosprophet wrote:

Unless I am wrong, the rule is that the penalty is "per return" so

3 partners plus the partnership return = £ 100 * 4 = £ 400?

are you including the partners' personal tax returns? If you are, the penalty would be £600; £300 for the partnership (£100 per partner) plus £100 each for personal tax returns

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Replying to Ruddles:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
04th Feb 2014 12:59

You are wrong

amosprophet wrote:

Unless I am wrong, the rule is that the penalty is "per return" so

3 partners plus the partnership return = £ 100 * 4 = £ 400?

The partnership penalty is per return. It is just that the per return penalty is £100 for each partner of the partnership. The partnership has no separate legal status for tax purposes (even if it is an LLP) so the per return penalties are levied on the partners themselves. 3 partners = 3 x £100 for this single return.

As has been pointed out, they would have £100 penalties each if their individual returns were late. This seems unlikely in the circumstances. The partnership return was ready to file in December but the OP was unable to file it online. The personal returns were presumably ready at the same time, and the OP was in a position to file those online.

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By pauld
03rd Feb 2014 17:52

£400

Is there a penalty for the partnership as well as the 3 partners, so £400?

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The triggle is a distant cousin of the squonk (pictured)
By Triggle
03rd Feb 2014 18:18

.

It is £100 per partner as Euan has said, so £300.

Edited - original comment would have applied if you hadn't filed anything.

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By halblackburn
04th Feb 2014 11:53

In future submit by post a paper partnership tax return with estimated figures well before October (signed by the relevant partner).  When the final figures are available submit by post an amended paper partnership return.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
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By ACDWebb
04th Feb 2014 12:42

Of course the trouble with that is

halblackburn wrote:

In future submit by post a paper partnership tax return with estimated figures well before October (signed by the relevant partner).  When the final figures are available submit by post an amended paper partnership return.

HMRC would be well within their rights to not accept the estimated return as not being a correct return, so you would be back where you started
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By pauld
04th Feb 2014 13:13

Nominated partner

System seems very unfair. A nominated partner has to be chosen and it is they who signs the Return. In a fair system, surely it should just be the nominated partner that receives the one and only penalty. Sounds like just another money making scheme for HMRC.

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By Ian Lawrence
10th Feb 2014 13:30

Thanks for all your comments (except the " I would be changing accountants as this is very basic knowledge for anyone in practice" not really helpful Pauld).  I will pay the fines and move on.  My client (and indeed generally all my clients) is very happy with me, I have been in practice 12 years, this is my only partnership (most of the rest are companies) and I have been open and honest with him. But next year the partnership return, complete and final, and on paper, will be into HMRC by 31st October :-)

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
10th Feb 2014 14:03

Or buy the software

Andica would have charged you just £14.95 + VAT for the software for one partnership tax return.  That's what we did to file a Trust tax return at the last minute, but we had to pay them all of £19.75 + VAT!

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