Possible timing issues with First year Tax Return and Company Account submissions?

Possible timing issues with First year Tax...

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I am attempting to file my tax return and first year company accounts jointly to HMRC and Companies House (via HMRC's website).

The accounts run for a period longer than 12 months. My Incorporation date was the 19th March 2014, first Trading date was the 21st March 2014 and the Accounting ref Date is the 31st March.

I believe two period submissions are required; 1) 21/03/14 to 20/03/15 (12 months) and then 21/03/15 to 31/03/15.

On selecting the option to file for the period 21/03/14 to 20/03/15 I am presented with the requirement to complete a P&L for the 12 months ending 31/03/15.

Is there a timing conflict here or am I mis-understanding? Do I need to file separate accounts or is there an easy way to resolve this? Is there a need to file dormant accounts for the 19/03/14 to 20/03/14?

Replies (10)

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By Wanderer
02nd Jun 2015 15:30

You need

One set of accounts to Companies House 19-03-2014 to 31-03-2015 (or in fact abbreviated accounts at 31-03-2015).

Two CT600s to HMRC 21-03-2014 to 20-03-2015 & 21-03-2015 to 31-03-2015.

Thanks (1)
Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
By johngroganjga
02nd Jun 2015 15:43

Full accounts

Wanderer wrote:

One set of accounts to Companies House 19-03-2014 to 31-03-2015 (or in fact abbreviated accounts at 31-03-2015).

Plus, of course, the full version of those abbreviated accounts for HMRC and, presumably yourself and any other shareholders. 

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By johngroganjga
02nd Jun 2015 15:33

You only need one set of accounts - to cover the period from the date of incorporation to the first accounting reference date.

The two submission periods you refer to are for HMRC and the tax returns only - nothing to do with Companies House or the accounts.

Thanks (1)
paddle steamer
By DJKL
02nd Jun 2015 15:39

Is the issue here not that Companies House require one set of accounts covering incorporation ,19 March 2014, to 31 March 2015 whereas for corporation tax accounting periods there is a requirement to submit two forms CT600 covering two periods, the earlier starting on 21 March 2014?

So the starting point surely has to be only one set of accounts from 19/3/14 to 31/3/15, both CT  returns then using an apportionment of the trading period within same to arrive at their respective profits or losses for each accounting period for corporation tax purposes.

I expect someone who uses the joint filing option will be along to assist, I do not make use of the facility myself using one software package to generate accounts and another to generate corporation tax returns so cannot advise on its functions, but maybe it is not designed to work with disparate periods re accounts and tax?

 

Edit- slow again, becoming a habit.

Thanks (1)
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By Myshkin
02nd Jun 2015 16:50

The practicalities Using HMRC website

If you are using HMRC's website for first submission tick "yes" to do you want to use accounts service.  For the second submission tick "no".  On first submission tick "yes" to are you filing more than one return at this time (near the end - can't remember where!).

Figures in the two returns are as described above obviously adding to the accounts you complete in the first submission.  

Easy when you get down to it.

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
03rd Jun 2015 09:17

Ridiculous

It is beyond belief in my view that HMRC and Companies House cannot align so that the default first accounting period for a new off the shelf company exactly matches the corporation tax date.

The inability of HMRC to align with other public bodies such as Companies House, The Student Loan Company, HMRC Tax Credits (!) and HMRC Debt Management (!!!) does not bode well for the successful implementation of Osborne's grand budget vision.

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Replying to mikeyban:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jun 2015 15:52

Said this before, no-one agreed

mr. mischief wrote:

It is beyond belief in my view that HMRC and Companies House cannot align so that the default first accounting period for a new off the shelf company exactly matches the corporation tax date.

The inability of HMRC to align with other public bodies such as Companies House, The Student Loan Company, HMRC Tax Credits (!) and HMRC Debt Management (!!!) does not bode well for the successful implementation of Osborne's grand budget vision.

The requirements are actually mutually exclusive. Even a year isn't good enough. One can be no more than a year, the other must be more than a year.  There's no joined up thinking here.  All they need to do is make the default ARD one month earlier than it is now.  I don't see this as being a huge deal.

Nor is it a huge deal to change it yourself.  Though you do need a certain amount of foresight.

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By mfaraday
03rd Jun 2015 15:00

CT600 / Annual Accounts joint filing to HMRC and Companies House

Thanks for you comments,

As I believe DJKL rightly points out; Companies House require one set of Accounts 19 March 2014 to 31 March 2015, however two CT600's are required to HMRC with different timings.The joint filing option does not appear to manage this correctly with the P&L (for example) requiring completion for the 12 months ending 31 March 2015 ... although I maybe wrong...

Can anyone advise on the use of the joint filing option under this type of situation?

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Replying to LW64:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jun 2015 15:55

Yes

mfaraday wrote:

Thanks for you comments,

As I believe DJKL rightly points out; Companies House require one set of Accounts 19 March 2014 to 31 March 2015, however two CT600's are required to HMRC with different timings.The joint filing option does not appear to manage this correctly with the P&L (for example) requiring completion for the 12 months ending 31 March 2015 ... although I maybe wrong...

Can anyone advise on the use of the joint filing option under this type of situation?

Yes - don't use it.

But if you do, there's no problem.  You're submitting one set of accounts but two returns.  You've no obligation to submit two sets of accounts to HMRC.  You may have to time apportion some things but that's not part of the accounts, it's part of the return.

Thanks (1)
Replying to LW64:
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By Myshkin
04th Jun 2015 09:45

"Joint Filing Option"

"Can anyone advise on the use of the joint filing option under this type of situation?"  As per my earlier reply!  But if there is something you don't understand I have done it a few times on HMRC's web site.  Most people don't use this but have their own software.

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