Quick fire round - opinions please?!

Quick fire round - opinions please?!

Didn't find your answer?

Despite being previously told how to do something (verbally and backed up with a fantastic email sent at 1.36am on 11/8) i've just spent 63 minutes correcting client errors in the books that were easily avoidable.

I work on fixed fees and hardly ever bill for additional work.

I'm due to leave in an hour to get on a flight and this has really put me back (and quite frankly p*ssed me off!!)

Soooo...shall I bill for the lost hour?

Answers by 1.30pm please.... :-)

Replies (27)

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By mrme89
07th Nov 2014 12:39

I don't think you can bill at this stage. 

 

You should have pointed out the errors and gave the client the opportunity to amend. If they didn't want to amend it themselves, you could have quoted for the hour. 

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Replying to michal19:
By Howard Marks
07th Nov 2014 12:42

Even though....

mrme89 wrote:

I don't think you can bill at this stage. 

 

You should have pointed out the errors and gave the client the opportunity to amend. If they didn't want to amend it themselves, you could have quoted for the hour. 

 

The VAT's due in today? (been requesting info for 5 wks and only rec'd half of what I need anyway)

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Nov 2014 12:45

Probably not this year

You agreed a fixed fee for this year. Unless you gave clear conditions they have failed to meet, you have to honour that.

Make it clear that, in future years, the fixed fee will be dependent on the book-keeping being up to snuff. Detail the problems with this year's accounts as examples of what would give rise to an extra bill next year.

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Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
07th Nov 2014 12:53

Not worth the hassle for an hour's wasted time

But tell the client you spent over an hour correcting basic errors in their system.  You will not be charging on this occasion, but will charge for such corrective work at £x per hour if it happens again.

Also mention that receiving VAT return records hours before the filing deadline is far too late and may result in the return not being filed on time in the future.  Spell out when you expect to receive the records in the future.

That way you keep the moral high ground and avoid wasting more hours arguing with the client over a surprise bill.

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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 12:54

Only an hour

Do people really charge for odd hours like this?

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Nov 2014 12:57

Why stick at hours ?

buttinski wrote:

Do people really charge for odd hours like this?

I wouldn't.

Where will it all end ?  Billing by the second ?  Stop the clock before I sussle my coffee and start again when I put the mug down ?

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
By mrme89
07th Nov 2014 13:04

1 Hour?

lionofludesch wrote:

buttinski wrote:

Do people really charge for odd hours like this?

I wouldn't.

Where will it all end ?  Billing by the second ?  Stop the clock before I sussle my coffee and start again when I put the mug down ?

 

1 hour?

 

1 hour per quarter because the client is crap means you have lost half a day over the year. 

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
By mrme89
07th Nov 2014 12:58

Yes

buttinski wrote:

Do people really charge for odd hours like this?

 

A fixed quote is just that. A fixed fee for a fixed service. If the client doesn't hold up to their end of the bargain, they need to be given the opportunity to do so or say it's outside the agreement and there will be an additional fee. 

If you don't do this, they just won't bother in future because they know full well you will do it for free.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Nov 2014 13:02

Only an hour

buttinski wrote:

Do people really charge for odd hours like this?

If the job was only expected to take an hour, that is doubling the time needed for it. The fixed fee agreed on the expected hour of time needed is therefore likely to be half of what it should be. So an hour may or may not be a significant increase in the work dependent on expectations.

So if, as a percentage, the extra hour is a significant addition to the required time to do the work, then an extra bill is not unreasonable surely.

Just out of curiosity, how many free "only an hour" would you give a client before billing?

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By Howard Marks
07th Nov 2014 13:10

Only an hour???

Just to point out - the fantastic email I sent them back in Aug at 1.36am was 3 hrs later than i'd planned to go to bed as I was correcting mistakes at that point too not to mention flying out on holiday 4 hrs later!

 

Obviously only I know the situation intimately but this client bloody well deserves to be billed believe me.

 

Can feel a disengagement coming on....

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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 13:11

If my suppliers

treated me the way that some of you appear to treat your clients, they would soon be on their bikes.

 

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Replying to MDK45:
By mrme89
07th Nov 2014 13:18

Bike

buttinski wrote:

treated me the way that some of you appear to treat your clients, they would soon be on their bikes.

 

Respect works both ways. 

 

Why should a client expect to receive additional services they:-

(1) Haven't paid for

(2) Need because they can't be bothered to stick to their end of the bargain

I wouldn't go into Curry's, buy a TV remote for £20 and expect to come out with a 50" TV worth £800.

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Replying to EasyMTDVAT:
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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 13:29

More likely Halfords

mrme89 wrote:

I wouldn't go into Curry's, buy a TV remote for £20 and expect to come out with a 50" TV worth £800.

Not wishing to sound too much like a earlier contributor, but this analogy is both flawed and ridiculous.

Just remember who the customer is - if you don't want him/her then show him/her the door.

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Replying to Vaughan Blake1:
By mrme89
07th Nov 2014 13:32

?

buttinski wrote:

mrme89 wrote:

I wouldn't go into Curry's, buy a TV remote for £20 and expect to come out with a 50" TV worth £800.

Not wishing to sound too much like a earlier contributor, but this analogy is both flawed and ridiculous.

Just remember who the customer is - if you don't want him/her then show him/her the door.

 

But you might want them as a client.

 

It's about them sticking to their part of the agreement or paying for additional services and time that is outside the scope of that agreement. 

 

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 13:35

Well

mrme89 wrote:

 

 

It's about them sticking to their part of the agreement or paying for additional services and time that is outside the scope of that agreement. 

 

Good luck with that one - I'm out!

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Replying to paul.benny:
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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 14:28

Crikey

stepurhan wrote:

buttinski wrote:
mrme89 wrote:

It's about them sticking to their part of the agreement or paying for additional services and time that is outside the scope of that agreement. 

Good luck with that one - I'm out!

Not planning to answer my question then? (or at least say why you think it isn't a relevant question)

stepurhan wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many free "only an hour" would you give a client before billing?
To run with mrme89's analogy, a customer goes into a shop to buy the big TV. They demand a load of extras thrown for no further cost. If it's just an upgraded remote (little extra time) then it might be worthwhile for the supplier to just include it. If they demanded a full set of surround sound speakers and a top-of-the-range BluRay player, would the shop really be being unreasonable and customer-hating to say no?

Alternatively, a customer comes in to buy the cheap toaster. They demand a coffee maker, sold at the same price, be thrown in free. Unreasonable to object?

If an extra (be it remote control or time) is inconsequential compared to the main sale agreed, letting it pass unbilled might be good customer service. If it is a large proportion of the main sale, then not billing becomes a bad commercial decision.

You must be bored - how many hours a year do you waste on this sort of nonsense?

Don't tell me - it is your time to waste - which is different to a client wasting it.  But time is time!

I will answer your question - I don't know the number of hours, but I do know that I spend whatever time is necessary to do (what I believe to be) a good job.

EDIT: I know that you tend to talk down to people, but please don't talk to me as though I am a five year old.

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Replying to MDK45:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
07th Nov 2014 14:40

different in reality

buttinski wrote:

treated me the way that some of you appear to treat your clients, they would soon be on their bikes.

Bear in mind that people only tend to post the problem cases on here. The 95% of clients that are a pleasure to work with don't appear in cases cited here as there's no problem. Also people tend to vent here when they would normally be more restrained and circumspect when dealing directly with the client.

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 14:46

I agree

Red Leader]</p> <p>[quote=buttinski wrote:

treated me the way that some of you appear to treat your clients, they would soon be on their bikes.

Bear in mind that people only tend to post the problem cases on here. The 95% of clients that are a pleasure to work with don't appear in cases cited here as there's no problem. Also people tend to vent here when they would normally be more restrained and circumspect when dealing directly with the client

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By Howard Marks
07th Nov 2014 13:33

BILLED

I'm not having it!!!!

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By andy.partridge
07th Nov 2014 14:28

I would . . .

. . . see how I felt about it when I got back, de-stressed and rational.

The likelihood, if it were a 1st offence, is I would remind the client of their responsibilities in agreeing to the fixed fee. Any subsequent offences 'may' be chargeable and at a premium rate.

It's always worth a try to educate them instead of souring the relationship with a momentary loss of temper

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By andy.partridge
07th Nov 2014 14:48

If I had a client that said I tended to talk down to them and to stop talking as though they were a 5 year old, I would show them the door.

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Replying to indomitable:
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By sosleepy
07th Nov 2014 14:50

Why?

andy.partridge wrote:

If I had a client that said I tended to talk down to them and to stop talking as though they were a 5 year old, I would show them the door.

Has it got pictures of the Teletubbies on it?

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Replying to indomitable:
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By buttinski
07th Nov 2014 15:29

Sorry

andy.partridge wrote:

If I had a client that said I tended to talk down to them and to stop talking as though they were a 5 year old, I would show them the door.

I am  not sure who this is aimed at.

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By andy.partridge
07th Nov 2014 15:56

No aim

Just being frivolous with a light touch of irony. My real answer was at 14.28.

 

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By claudialowe
07th Nov 2014 16:41

Fixed fee is fixed fee

I would always honour a fixed fee, but if the work took considerably longer than I had anticipated, I would point out that next time the fee will be £x (as quoted) + an additional £y (per hour) for late receipt of paperwork, errors in their preparation etc etc.  Their choice!

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Kieran Phelan
By KPEM online
07th Nov 2014 20:45

Take a step back
Don't jump in and bill. Might make you feel better but lose a client. You may not think thats a bad thing now but people talk. If the word goes out you bill every single second, it could affect future business.

Just meet the client, explain the issues, aim to make them higher than grade D. If it isnt happening, then let them go.

The issue also seems to be more to do with timeliness of bookkeeping more than the errors. The client doing things last minute in a rush is causing the errors. And to be honest if you sit up to all hours fixing it and getting their VAT submitted on time, fair play for your commitment, but I would let it be late. A cut off date for getting books in should be stuck to regardless.

Hope you have had time to think this through.

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By Stuart.thomson
09th Nov 2014 18:40

Legally you can only bill extra if either your contract with the client specifically allows it under these circumstances or there is a clear/obvious extension beyond what would be reasonable to assume. This latter one covers the state of the client affairs. However the client's perspective needs to be considered too and in short would expect that he is informed in advance and as the first respondent said given a chance to correct the work.

I cannot believe you are considering billing for one extra hour. Either your fees are generally really tight and you run an extra efficient shop or you are seeking to bill based on your personal emotional baggage of going on holiday.

As has been said above many times, this is a commercial decision for you. An extra hours fees may not be a big sum for the client but then it should not be for your either. Can or do you wish to "risk" losing the client?

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