Remittance date of ATM withdrawal or later (end of tax year panick)?

Remittance date of ATM withdrawal or later ...

Didn't find your answer?

Sorry to bother people over Easter, but we are in a real pickle.

Situation: user of the remittance basis, wants to leave less than 2000 overseas for 2014-2015. To his end, he withdraw money today (Sunday the 5th of April) from a UK ATM. However, today! the foreign bank has already listed this transaction, but two days in the future, on April 7th! Now that is in a new tax year, which would mean having more than 2000 overseas, and losing personal allowances etc.

Now I realise this would all have been avoided if he had thought of bank delays over Easter in advance. But:

in your opinion - as I cannot find any HMRC guidance on this - what counts:

the date of withdrawal at the ATM (5th April) or:

listing of the transaction on the foreign bank account (to be clear, both the transaction date and the " booked" date will lie in the future, as the Bank is putting even the transaction date two days in the future, as seen today from an up to date bank statement).

If you think the ATM date, would a receipt of the ATM be enough proof against the foreign bank statement, in case of an enquiry for example?

Thanks to all, and happy Easter.

Replies (9)

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By duncanedwards
05th Apr 2015 22:22

What's done is done. Look at it when you are back in the office on Tuesday.

Not familiar with this subject so don't understand the specific point having read this:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/non-domiciled-residents

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By muze7
05th Apr 2015 22:30

simplification

Yes, many thanks, I know those pages well but they are not specific enough unfortunately. But I thought of something perhaps?

If I rephrase it like this, if one considers tax dates for a simple UK transaction, is there any guidance? Like when money has become available for use for example (e.g. ATM or someone giving you a cheque which you cash in, but the bank does not list it until a day later? Is there a practice that the date applies from the money becoming available? Or for example, you buy something with a credit card, the store gives you a receipt of day X, but the Credit card company, for whatever reason, does not even list the transaction until X+1. My gut feeling is the store receipt is the most important? But is that correct?

Many thanks,

Bridget

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By cparker87
05th Apr 2015 22:43

Not qualified
In this area but it strikes me that if there cash was physically withdrawn and with the taxpayer on uk soil at the end of the year with that cash in hand there is a very difficult counter argument to be made.

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By Bungo
06th Apr 2015 08:17

Struggling
To see where you are coming from on this. I am no expert either but having had a quick read, I can't see how the timing of the ATM withdrawal would impact anything like personal allowance.

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Replying to legerman:
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By EASy
06th Apr 2015 08:40

Errrr.... it'll determine

Bungo wrote:
To see where you are coming from on this. I am no expert either but having had a quick read, I can't see how the timing of the ATM withdrawal would impact anything like personal allowance.

Errrr.... it'll determine whether the remittance basis is automatic (unremitted amounts in 2014/15 <£2,000) or whether it'll have to be claimed (of course, it doesn't). If the latter - no personal allowance.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Bungo
06th Apr 2015 09:53

Still don't see it

EASy wrote:
Bungo wrote:
To see where you are coming from on this. I am no expert either but having had a quick read, I can't see how the timing of the ATM withdrawal would impact anything like personal allowance.

Errrr.... it'll determine whether the remittance basis is automatic (unremitted amounts in 2014/15 <£2,000) or whether it'll have to be claimed (of course, it doesn't). If the latter - no personal allowance.

Are you sure about that..?

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Replying to John Stokdyk:
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By muze7
06th Apr 2015 13:44

at least sure about that part of it

Bungo wrote:
EASy wrote:
Bungo wrote:
To see where you are coming from on this. I am no expert either but having had a quick read, I can't see how the timing of the ATM withdrawal would impact anything like personal allowance.
Errrr.... it'll determine whether the remittance basis is automatic (unremitted amounts in 2014/15 <£2,000) or whether it'll have to be claimed (of course, it doesn't). If the latter - no personal allowance.
Are you sure about that..?

 

Yes, very sure about the principal. A cash withdrawal is a remittance because you are bringing money to the UK. In a sense it is one of the clearest forms of remittances for the purpose of the remittance basis (as opposed to bringing in a work of art bought from mixed funds overseas, for example, or worse, gifts to relevant persons that are brought to the UK years later; they are also remittances but more of a headache and I would personally avoid such remittances  completely). But the timing needs to be right, and I have been silly enough to forget to ask the ATM machine for a receipt! ! Hence the pickle. Will have to ask the bank on Tuesday if it is still possible to generate a receipt now, but have strong doubts that they can/will?

 

 

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By Tim Vane
06th Apr 2015 16:05

I agree the remittance date is the date of the cash withdrawal. It shouldn't be too hard to get the bank to confirm the withdrawal date.

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By Marion Hayes
06th Apr 2015 18:42

Screen shot

Did you take a screen shot of the statement you viewed on 5th April.

That would be dated and prove the transaction must have happened already as only cheques take time to clear 

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