RTI Newsagents

RTI Newsagents

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We have a client who is a limited company and trades as a newsagent employing several paperboys/girls and 2 shop staff. 

All staff apart from the sole director are paid under £100 a week so below LEL threshold for NIC.

We run a payroll for the company but only include the director

From my research into RTI it would appear that we would now need to put all staff over the age of 16 on the payroll, regardless of that fact they are below the LEL threshold.

Is this correct as it would mean that we would have to operate a weekly payroll instead of the current monthly one?

Can we get around this by reducing the director's pay to £471 a month and closing down the payroll scheme

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Replies (12)

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Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
27th Apr 2013 17:54

Employees below 16 not in RTI

We asked HMRC specifically about youths employed by eg Newsagents.

Our advice from the HMRC Developer Support Team was that employees who are aged under 16 and paid below the LEL do not need to be included in RTI filing, because they don't pay NI and cannot claim Universal Benefit.

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By LOUISEWALSH
27th Apr 2013 18:26

Thanks Tom but what about the staff over the age of 16 below the LEL limit?

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Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
27th Apr 2013 18:43

File them if you have a PAYE scheme

If they're over 16 and a PAYE scheme exists then all payments to those people must be filed under RTI. But a key difference it makes is that often a Newsagents might have more than 9 paperboys under 16 (through the course of a year) but only 2-3 staff over the age of 16, so they'd be able to use Basic PAYE Tools or the cheapest licence for one of the low-cost payroll software products.

I missed the fact in your original post that you'd already spotted that only those over 16 need to be reported. We've come across quite a few businesses employing youths that *hadn't* picked that up, and I read your original post wrongly.

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By [email protected]
27th Apr 2013 21:44

NI

My understanding is the same as yours. Namely RTI is a reporting mechanism for a PAYE scheme. Ergo, no scheme, no reporting.

If you do drop the pay to £471 will the director not lose access to the National Insurance benefits which accrue by virtue of being paid above the LEL?

Du

 

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
28th Apr 2013 09:19

At risk of being pedantic

The monthly NI LEL in 2013/14 is £473.  Pay that amount or more and you need a PAYE scheme and to report under RTI.  If you have a PAYE scheme, everyone (over 16) must be included on the payroll and reported under RTI even if paid under the LEL.

If you pay the director £472 or less, he will not get a qualifying year for the state pension, but you don't need a PAYE scheme and could close it, thus avoiding any need to report anything under RTI.

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By Ruddles
28th Apr 2013 09:52

Changing the topic slightly

What about restaurants and cafes etc? I understand that where a tronc system is used, the troncmaster will need to apply RTI. Where staff are used to getting the tips paid out at the end of each night this is going to create a ridiculous admin burden. The troncmaster may simply be a senior employee without access to the employer's computer (there may not even be a computer on the premises) - so how are the reports going to be filed?

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Replying to Tornado:
Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
28th Apr 2013 10:21

The owners will have to help

Ruddles wrote:

What about restaurants and cafes etc? I understand that where a tronc system is used, the troncmaster will need to apply RTI. Where staff are used to getting the tips paid out at the end of each night this is going to create a ridiculous admin burden. The troncmaster may simply be a senior employee without access to the employer's computer (there may not even be a computer on the premises) - so how are the reports going to be filed?

If think in this situation the owners will have to offer some administrative assistance. Under the old system it was normal for owners to file P35/P14 for the tronc, and to file starter/leaver documents (I assume these were required) so the total amount of work shouldn't be that different. PAYE had to be calculated at BR before and it still has to be calculated. Somebody had to keep track of the running totals for every employee in the old system too so the change ought not to be that burdensome. Just a different procedure.

Presumably the employees are being paid weekly and the owners operate a payroll for that purpose. Running a parallel tronc PAYE scheme for recording and filing the tronc payments is a small additional burden that ought to take a few minutes a week. The troncmaster has to give the owners the list of weekly payments. (the concession already exists that daily casual cash payments can be filed weekly at the end of the week).

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By Steve Holloway
29th Apr 2013 09:39

I have had conflicting information on the under 16's ...

I know what Tom posted originally but when I said that on a recent PTP course the lecturer was adamant that paper boys and girls were one of the explicit examples that HMRC had given of where reporting was needed (if there was a scheme in place).

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Replying to fawltybasil2575:
Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
29th Apr 2013 10:27

HMRC's RTI Programme Guidance

Steve Holloway wrote:

I know what Tom posted originally but when I said that on a recent PTP course the lecturer was adamant that paper boys and girls were one of the explicit examples that HMRC had given of where reporting was needed (if there was a scheme in place).

We have specific written guidance right from the horses mouth:

HMRC RTI Programme wrote:
“If the paper boys/girls are under 16 then there is no need to include these on an FPS as they cannot claim Universal Credits."
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By Steve Holloway
29th Apr 2013 11:13

Yes, that's what I told him ...

just hope you always keep the email from HMRC ... counting on you!

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
29th Apr 2013 19:24

Own Copy

Steve Holloway wrote:

just hope you always keep the email from HMRC ... counting on you!

If you send your email address to me by private email I'll forward a copy to you, so you'll have your own.

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By Steve Holloway
30th Apr 2013 10:47

PM sent ...

thanks Tom.

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