RTI "Reason for submission being late"

RTI "Reason for submission being late"

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Slightly concerned - this latest incarnation of Basic tools includes a data item reading as follows:

"Employers are required to submit employee payment date to HMRC on or before...If you are submitting this data late, you may wish to tell us why".

Then if you tick the box:

"If you make a selection, HMRC may check to see whether it was appropriate for you to do so"

then

"what is the reason this submission is late?"

Answers available unfortunately don't include "because RTI is a load of nonsense and totally impractical in real life"...

It all sounds vaguely threatening but with late penalties coming in from October 2014, what is the purpose behind this and what are others doing? I don't understand what's to gain by completing the box "If you are submitting this data late, you may wish to tell us why" if it's optional and completing it then carries the threat "If you make a selection, HMRC may check to see whether it was appropriate for you to do so".

Is this a pre-emptive penalty appeal process where selection of a reasonable excuse guarantees no penalty?

Replies (8)

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
16th Apr 2014 10:52

Get used to it

norstar wrote:

"what is the reason this submission is late?"

Answers available unfortunately don't include "because RTI is a load of nonsense and totally impractical in real life"...

Get used to it.  RTI is here to stay.

The opportunity to give a Late reporting reason (scroll down to From April 2014) is quite useful.  All but one - G Reasonable excuse - are circumstances covered by existing relaxations from filing on or before the date of payment, so if you can tick one of them, I doubt that any penalty would be imposed.  Ticking "Reasonable excuse" is obviously not specific, so would require further explanation/appeal when the penalty is issued.

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By onicholson
16th Apr 2014 11:08

Late reason

In theory, a late reason stops an automatic penalty. If you abuse it (particularly reasonable excuse), it can instead trigger an inspection to find out why your submissions are consistently late.

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By StephenElms
16th Apr 2014 12:30

Our payroll was run yesterday and my girl informs me that it was filed and late she had to provide an excuse. Now here is the nub of an issue: Our pay week runs Mon-Fri, with the payroll being run on a Tuesday - thereby allowing us 1 day (Monday) to sort out any anomily.  So, I reviewed the RTI guidance and see that I should run the payroll on the Friday; but running it in the morning means that I can't include any extra time worked on Friday evening. That means that those extra hours will have to be forward to next week, not a problem? Oh, yes it is! Because on Friday 4th April the tax year ended and those hours should heve been inclued to make the P60 data factually correct. Moreover, the business' accounts aren't factually correct either,  nor are the amounts due to HMRC for NI and tax!

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Replying to Accountant A:
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
16th Apr 2014 14:03

Have you dated your payroll wrongly?

StephenElms wrote:

Now here is the nub of an issue: Our pay week runs Mon-Fri, with the payroll being run on a Tuesday - thereby allowing us 1 day (Monday) to sort out any anomily.  So, I reviewed the RTI guidance and see that I should run the payroll on the Friday; but running it in the morning means that I can't include any extra time worked on Friday evening. That means that those extra hours will have to be forward to next week, not a problem? Oh, yes it is! Because on Friday 4th April the tax year ended and those hours should heve been inclued to make the P60 data factually correct. Moreover, the business' accounts aren't factually correct either,  nor are the amounts due to HMRC for NI and tax!

If you pay your employees weekly on a Tuesday, you should always have dated your payroll and calculated the PAYE as on the Tuesday, not the Friday.  This has always been the case under PAYE.  RTI has merely added the requirement to file the FPS by the Tuesday, rather than the Friday.

Your last payroll run in 2013/14 should have been the one for Week 52 paid on Tuesday, 1st April, for work done up to Friday, 28th March.  Forms P60 including that payroll would be "factually correct".  The first payroll in 2014/15 should have been the one run for Week 1 on Tuesday, 8th April, for work done up to 4th April.  Any business which pays its staff in arrears will have to include an accrual in its accounts to make them "factually correct".

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By norstar
16th Apr 2014 12:47

It's a wonderful world

Whether it's here to stay or not, there are still many cases where it isn't workable. My payroll department are sprouting grey hairs at an alarming rate and my staff welfare bill has rocketed in trying to keep morale up!

It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out with "abuse" of late filing reasons.

 

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By StephenElms
16th Apr 2014 14:30

You are correct

...but we are still being told that we have late filed! My week 1 ended on Friday 11th April, paid staff yesterday - still being told I late filed!

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Replying to ohgoodgodno:
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
16th Apr 2014 15:05

You are late

StephenElms wrote:

...but we are still being told that we have late filed! My week 1 ended on Friday 11th April, paid staff yesterday - still being told I late filed!

If you dated the payroll 11th April and filed the FPS on 15th April, then of course you filed late.  HMRC have no idea when you actually paid your employees - they know only the paydate (payslip date) reported in the FPS and the date they received it.  15 > 11 = late.

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By notaguru
10th Jul 2014 09:27

Question about submission dates

Good Morning,

I don't understand the logic of RTI so sorry if these are silly questions.

I'm a little confused with the date of pay roll and the date you pay . Is the day you pay an employee the pay roll day?

I was in France last week and paid my monthly salary from the Business account to my personal account on the 01/07/14.

However, I did not have the laptop with HMRCs software on it, so could not do the RTI submission. I had a look at it today and my questions are:

Does it actually matter if I enter today's date as the payment?

I understand it's not accurate by a few days, but does this actually matter as it is the correct salary that was paid so surly this cannot create problems?

I don't want to create a new admin cycle / possible fine by stating it's late, as I don't know what HMRC considers a "Reasonable Excuse", and my not taking my laptop to France may not be deemed as a "Reasonable Excuse".

On the other hand, I'm assuming HMRC does not intend to start funding UK wide audits on micro company bank statements to identify RTI bandits...that are few days out, vis-a-vis spending cash on reducing tax evasion by the majors (Coffee Giants, and Peruvian/Brazilian River Internet Shops...and the rest of the gang?

Also, I don't run pay roll on the same day each month as 1. I'm abroad and 2. Cash-flow is an issue this year. So one month might be the 1st of the month and then next month might be the 11th of the month? Is that OK or should it be the same day each month? NB I'm the only employee.

 

Any thoughts / advise would be grand.

Regards

NAG

 

 

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