SA Return issued after P800 received

SA Return issued after P800 received

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New client has registered with me showing a P800 for 10/11 with £5K due as BR code applied for most of the year whilst client was actually a 40% taxpayer. Client ignored the P800 and an SA return was then issued for 10/11.Do we have grounds for asking for the penalties (now £1300) for late submission of the SA return for 10/11 (issued September 13) to be cancelled? The SA return has now been submitted but there was no additional information or income to declare and therefore the P800 was correct all along. The SA calculation comes to exactly the same figure as the P800.Any advice please on appealing the £1300 penalties on the basis that the SA return was unnecessary?

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By david5541
17th Apr 2014 13:47

COMPLAIN AND GET THE CLIENT TO SIGN AND SEND THE LETTER

hmrc are generally not receptive to agents unless you are sharpened up and can quote the refernce/basis/case against a p800 AS well as a self assessment registration.

a P800 is issued when hmrc presumes the taxpayer is NOT  sa registered, and wants tax under PAYE.

 

a few years ago even self assessment  cases were being issued with p800s, for pensioners etc. due to a failure in the NIRS2 hmrc/nico system.

one dept of HMRC has issued a p800, and another has registered your taxpayer for SA(they may not have been talking to each other), if your client was registered by HMRC under SA)

if he/she registered for SA himself, or if anyone filed the 10/11 SA return issued sept 2013-after filing the return you dont have much grounds to appeal against the SA registration, which would be grounds for appeal against the now onerous 100/mth (minimum) penalties.

 

so get your client to write a stinking letter to HMRC saying he should not have been registered for SA by HMRC as his tax had already been assessed prior to registration on the P800 assessment.

 

you then raise the issue with the AAM, seperately- and wont get "fobbed off" by HMRC "customer service" staff who have no technical knowledge

 

 

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By razertoo
17th Apr 2014 13:47

Might be difficult

The SA return was issued, as you have stated, because your client ignored the P800. HMRC are unable to enforce debt collection on P800's and therefore issue the SA return to crystallise the debt and get it paid. The fact that your client ignored it is really his problem, not theirs. He should have sought your advice on receipt of the first penalty notice 

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By paras007
17th Apr 2014 13:50

When was the tax return submitted

When was the 2010/11 tax return submitted?

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By SteveRA
17th Apr 2014 14:27

The SA registration was done by HMRC and the client submitted the 10/11 tax return in late March 2013 on the receipt of a statement showing £1300 of late filing penalties,  in the mistaken belief that the penalties would then 'vanish!' He was in self assessment for 03/04 to 08/09 then removed. The 10/11 return was then issued in September 2013 but nothing shows as being issued since. However, amongst the paperwork he has left with me I have found a paper SA100 for 11/12 as well! Not submitted, issue date 15 March 2013 (before the 10/11 return was issued). But strangely no penalties have been applied to this one (yet!)Seems that HMRC really do not know what they are doing.

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By SteveRA
17th Apr 2014 14:33

Correction

10/11 Return submitted late March 14 (last month)Thanks for replies so far.

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