Subsistence - god I hate it!

Subsistence - god I hate it!

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I know this has likely been covered a million times but it's such a grey area I thought i'd drag it back up.

Director of company providing plastering services.  I'm happy to allow subsistence when staying away from home but what about short term contracts taken more local?  Common sense would suggest the director woke up at home that morning so could've prepared lunch like the rest of us do.  Or would I be right in thinking each 'job' will be classed as a temporary workplace with all travel & subsistence being allowed from the moment he leaves the door until he returns later that day?

Replies (14)

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By Maslins
15th Sep 2014 13:23

Agreed, I hate it

I don't get how food can ever pass the wholly and exclusively for the benefit of the trade...but that's just my humble opinion.  It's not as though those who work from home don't have to eat.

Hey-ho.  As I understand it, your client would be allowed to claim the cost of a reasonable lunch if he's working on site any given day.  This should have a receipt, he can't just claim £5 and make a packed lunch, pocketing the difference.

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By ShirleyM
15th Sep 2014 13:29

Subsistence

I wouldn't allow it for local work. If they have a longish journey, ie. set off very early and/or arrive home late, then I would allow a meal, but not if their working day (including travel) is within reasonable hours.

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By Howard Marks
15th Sep 2014 13:33

And there you have it....

....two opposing comments from names I highly respect on here.

 

The mind boggles....

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
15th Sep 2014 13:35

HMRC would allow it

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM31815.htm They are all temporary workplaces, so the travel expenses are allowable, and the subsistence follows the travel.

Only when he stays overnight in the hotel next door is he having a giraffe.

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Replying to GHarr497688:
By Howard Marks
15th Sep 2014 13:40

@Portina

Portia Nina Levin wrote:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM31815.htm They are all temporary workplaces, so the travel expenses are allowable, and the subsistence follows the travel.

Only when he stays overnight in the hotel next door is he having a giraffe.

 

Oh I do so wish you sat next to me at times - not only are you friggin hilarious but your replies are spot on!

 

Are we just talking lunch here or 'reasonable' food throughout the day from the minute he hits the BP at the bottom of the road onwards?

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By Maslins
15th Sep 2014 13:40

EDIT - link as per comment above.

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
15th Sep 2014 13:45

I think

That a plasterer can partake of anything and everything that you or I would and should be able to claim it if he is itinerant.

There inevitably comes a point where the PAYE [***] (can I say that? If I cannot, pretend I did not) will spend every waking moment for a fortnight going through it with a nit comb.

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By ShirleyM
15th Sep 2014 13:50

Thanks, Guys.

I missed a trick. It looks like I need not be so tough on my clients from now on.

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blue sheep
By NH
15th Sep 2014 14:17

but if he was a sole trader he would not be able to claim the cost of a sandwich bought locally......

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
15th Sep 2014 14:22

I dif to begger

If he is itinerant, see http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM47705.htm

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By Moonbeam
15th Sep 2014 14:24

I have a contractor who only works nights all different places

I have asked him for receipts for food purchased while out on the job.

He told me some of the only places he can get to are fast food takeways and they never give receipts. So I've told him to just keep a note.

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blue sheep
By NH
15th Sep 2014 14:34

intinerant

Is it realisitc to say that a plasterer is intinerant - the example used in the BIM is that of a commercial traveller.  we are talking about the covering walls type of plastering arent we :)?

The BIM says "The cost of meals taken away from the place of business is not, in general, an expense incurred wholly and exclusively for business purposes, since everyone must eat in order to live".

"extra costs may be incurred wholly for business purposes where a business is by its nature itinerant (eg in the case of commercial travellers), or where occasional business journeys outside the normal pattern are made". 

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
15th Sep 2014 14:47

Horton v Young

Mr Horton was a general builder and was considered itinerant. How do plasterers differ?

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By zebaa
15th Sep 2014 18:32

Enjoy it while it lasts...

...it may last much longer:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/travel-and-subsistence-review

 

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