Tax Advisor or Accountant

Tax Advisor or Accountant

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For general practice dealing with small clients, pubs, taxi operators, taxi drivers, building companies, hair dressing salons etc is a tax advisor or accountant better placed for compliance work.

Same question above is a tax advisor or accountant better placed to develop lower level tax avoidance strategies

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By cheekychappy
16th Feb 2016 12:24

A tax advisor is better placed to give tax advice. An accountant is better placed to give accountancy advice.

A general practitioner will need a mixture of accountancy and tax skills to service their clients competently.

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By Duhamel
16th Feb 2016 12:24

Just wait for Justin
you didn't mention tax lawyer.

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Replying to Wanderer:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 13:31

Oooh Noooo

Duhamel wrote:
you didn't mention tax lawyer.

 

Oops!! Although unsure what a tax lawyer is compared to a tax advisor. Iv used Accountax a few times for commercial contractor set up and they were employment lawyers and tax advisors that developed a very successful tax avoidance strategy for us. Cost big bucks though.

 

However the question wouldnt be directed at a tax solicitor anyway as they would not generally be involved in general practice dealing with the type of small clients detailed above.

 

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By johngroganjga
16th Feb 2016 13:00

To provide compliance services of the kind you describe a person will need to be able to prepare accounts and provide tax advice / prepare tax returns.

All "tax advisers" worthy of the name should be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns but only some of them will be able to prepare accounts - some will have no idea how to do so.

Likewise with "accountants".  As their job title indicates they will be able to prepare accounts, but only some of them will be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns - some will know nothing about tax. 

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Replying to Arthur Putey:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 13:11

Sitting on the fence Sir

johngroganjga wrote:

To provide compliance services of the kind you describe a person will need to be able to prepare accounts and provide tax advice / prepare tax returns.

All "tax advisers" worthy of the name should be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns but only some of them will be able to prepare accounts - some will have no idea how to do so.

Likewise with "accountants".  As their job title indicates they will be able to prepare accounts, but only some of them will be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns - some will know nothing about tax. 

All very true but i meant that someone in general practice dealing with the above would defo need financial reporting and taxation skills. The question is who would be better placed to offer the best service to the small possible medium sized clients?? Only in your opinion?

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Replying to tom123:
By johngroganjga
16th Feb 2016 14:05

Obvious

bumpdinkwhallop][quote=johngroganjga wrote:

All very true but i meant that someone in general practice dealing with the above would defo need financial reporting and taxation skills. The question is who would be better placed to offer the best service to the small possible medium sized clients?? Only in your opinion?

I though the answer was obvious. You either need a tax adviser who can prepare accounts or an accountant who can provide tax advice.

As a marketing title I suspect "accountant" is better.  The man in the street is more likely assume that an accountant can provide tax advice than that a tax adviser can balance their books and prepare their accounts. 

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Replying to tom123:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
16th Feb 2016 14:07

What answer do you want?

bumpdinkwhallop wrote:
johngroganjga wrote:

To provide compliance services of the kind you describe a person will need to be able to prepare accounts and provide tax advice / prepare tax returns.

All "tax advisers" worthy of the name should be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns but only some of them will be able to prepare accounts - some will have no idea how to do so.

Likewise with "accountants".  As their job title indicates they will be able to prepare accounts, but only some of them will be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns - some will know nothing about tax. 

All very true but i meant that someone in general practice dealing with the above would defo need financial reporting and taxation skills. The question is who would be better placed to offer the best service to the small possible medium sized clients?? Only in your opinion?
It's not sitting on the fence to say both. Would you prefer an answer of neither, since each on their own would be lacking some required skills for the work.

Perhaps explaining why you are posing this question as flat either/or question would be helpful.

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Replying to neanderthal:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 14:43

I want your answer Mr

stepurhan wrote:

bumpdinkwhallop wrote:
johngroganjga wrote:

To provide compliance services of the kind you describe a person will need to be able to prepare accounts and provide tax advice / prepare tax returns.

All "tax advisers" worthy of the name should be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns but only some of them will be able to prepare accounts - some will have no idea how to do so.

Likewise with "accountants".  As their job title indicates they will be able to prepare accounts, but only some of them will be able to provide tax advice / prepare tax returns - some will know nothing about tax. 

All very true but i meant that someone in general practice dealing with the above would defo need financial reporting and taxation skills. The question is who would be better placed to offer the best service to the small possible medium sized clients?? Only in your opinion?
It's not sitting on the fence to say both. Would you prefer an answer of neither, since each on their own would be lacking some required skills for the work.

Perhaps explaining why you are posing this question as flat either/or question would be helpful.

Im just curious as to what the community feels is a better skills base to have for general practice. Tax qualification with basic self taught accounting skills or accounting qualification with mostly self taught tax skills. I say self taught meaning one tax paper over 3 years and a number of financial reporting, costing etc as opposed to 3 years of tax papers with maybe ATT qualification
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By justsotax
16th Feb 2016 14:04

john has answered...

but put another way...you have had a crash in your car, you need the engine fixing and the bumper respraying....do you go to guys who repair bodywork...or a garage to get the engine fixed...or has been suggested...one with both skills.  I think the give away maybe 'general practitioner'...one I would perceive with experience of both areas.

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Replying to Red Leader:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 14:27

Iv seen John in action

justsotax wrote:

but put another way...you have had a crash in your car, you need the engine fixing and the bumper respraying....do you go to guys who repair bodywork...or a garage to get the engine fixed...or has been suggested...one with both skills.  I think the give away maybe 'general practitioner'...one I would perceive with experience of both areas.

Iv seen John in action numerous times on here and he certainly seems to be able to answer for himself my friend.

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By justsotax
16th Feb 2016 14:27

better skill base...

one where you have the appropriate skills to deal with the work you are dealing with...kinda sounds obvious....

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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 14:39

My point really is
if anyone thinks the professional body exams are comprehensive enough to allow someone to go directly into private practice on there lonesome

Ie tax but limited accounting skills or accounting but limited tax skills

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Replying to Sue Murby:
By johngroganjga
16th Feb 2016 15:14

Both

bumpdinkwhallop wrote:
if anyone thinks the professional body exams are comprehensive enough to allow someone to go directly into private practice on there lonesome

Ie tax but limited accounting skills or accounting but limited tax skills

It's not one or the other, it's both.

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Replying to atifdarr:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 15:45

Yes

johngroganjga wrote:
bumpdinkwhallop wrote:
if anyone thinks the professional body exams are comprehensive enough to allow someone to go directly into private practice on there lonesome Ie tax but limited accounting skills or accounting but limited tax skills
It's not one or the other, it's both.

theres no doubt about it, but then whatever route you go down....tax or accountancy there is a major degree of self learning as you go along. The perception as you pointed out earlier for the man in the street is that an accountant would be best placed to give you general compliance (SA, VAT, CT) advice when infact they done very little tax in there exams. Most of their tax skill would have been self taught.

Whereas and i say this very generally a tax advisor would really only need to learn basic financial statement preperation (and clearly spelling) to go out into general practice on their own.  Other then year end accounts mostly everything i do relates to lower level direct and indirect taxation.

Based on my own experience id say its better to go down the tax route with maybe AAT draftng finaicial statements unit than chartered accountant if you see yourself going on your own dealing with the bread and butter smaller clients

As your a decent contributor to this website without some of the silliness of others i was interested in your opinion on the best route accountancy or tax if your going to do your own thing

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Replying to Sue Murby:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
16th Feb 2016 15:41

Who thinks that?

bumpdinkwhallop wrote:
if anyone thinks the professional body exams are comprehensive enough to allow someone to go directly into private practice on there lonesome Ie tax but limited accounting skills or accounting but limited tax skills
For my professional body, you are required to have 3 years verified experience of the sort of work you do in practice before you can get a practicing certificate. So it would seem even the professional bodies don't see the exams as enough either.

As for your explanation that you want the "community feel" for which is better, I think you have your answer. Neither in isolation is likely to be any good. Talking about tax experts that have learned some accountancy and accountancy experts with some tax knowledge is meaningless. It's just a different way of saying that you need both sets of skills, which is what pretty much everyone is saying anyway. Indeed, a little knowledge of one side may be worse than none at all. As Pope said "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and you just have to look at some of the questions posed here to see the truth in that.

 

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Replying to DJKL:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 15:57

That was the question ......... does "anyone" think

stepurhan wrote:

bumpdinkwhallop wrote:
if anyone thinks the professional body exams are comprehensive enough to allow someone to go directly into private practice on there lonesome Ie tax but limited accounting skills or accounting but limited tax skills
For my professional body, you are required to have 3 years verified experience of the sort of work you do in practice before you can get a practicing certificate. So it would seem even the professional bodies don't see the exams as enough either.

As for your explanation that you want the "community feel" for which is better, I think you have your answer. Neither in isolation is likely to be any good. Talking about tax experts that have learned some accountancy and accountancy experts with some tax knowledge is meaningless. It's just a different way of saying that you need both sets of skills, which is what pretty much everyone is saying anyway. Indeed, a little knowledge of one side may be worse than none at all. As Pope said "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and you just have to look at some of the questions posed here to see the truth in that.

 

 

This is very true. 2 years for AAT & ATT which honestly amounts to very little. Its unusual for people to say "expert" normally tax people avoid this and instead use "consultant" as with the overly complex tax system there is very few people that are experts at all areas of it, generally thats why people specialise. Like law for example, commercial, employment and so on.

To be honest i have never came across a bad tax advisor but many accountants that just arent up too it. 

Also as far as i can see mate there is a handful of people that have contributed so far and i hardly think as much as you lot are decent contributors you can possibly describe your views as that of the whole communities.

Another question for you, which is the best accountancy bodies is viewed at the best is it ICAEW / ICAS as opposed to say ACCA

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By cheekychappy
16th Feb 2016 14:40

Qualifications alone are never enough.

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By justsotax
16th Feb 2016 15:05

bump...

did anyone actually suggest that?

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Replying to DJKL:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 15:13

Huh??

justsotax wrote:

did anyone actually suggest that?

 

suggest what???

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By cheekychappy
16th Feb 2016 15:17

Have I entered the twilight zone?

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By Abacus Finch
16th Feb 2016 15:46

Both

If you are talking qualifications, the best general practice people I have come across are both ACA/ACCA and CTA. For tax matters I would only ever go to a CTA myself, but of course this is all just a generalisation and like all professions some are better than others, but generally I have found most if not all CTAs very good indeed

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By cheekychappy
16th Feb 2016 15:50

The perception as you pointed out earlier for the man in the street is that an accountant would be best placed to give you general compliance (SA, VAT, CT) advice when infact they done very little tax in there exams.

Not necessarily true. There are advanced tax papers in some of the chartered qualifications.

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By Abacus Finch
16th Feb 2016 15:52

good point

and even the Chartered Tax Adviser has specialisms to focus on say indirect tax, but most I know did OMB tax and are brill

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Replying to moneymanager:
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By bumpdinkwhallop
16th Feb 2016 16:01

Yup

Abacus Finch wrote:

and even the Chartered Tax Adviser has specialisms to focus on say indirect tax, but most I know did OMB tax and are brill

 

I would agree. All CTAs have been outstanding iv dealt with. The question related to small practice through and accountants especially small firms need to deal with all lower level tax compliance dailly, VAT return, PAYE, CT and so on. I honestly think its easier to learn basic accounting skills for accounts production than it is to have accountancy skills and then learn about tax to go out on your own.

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By cheekychappy
16th Feb 2016 16:03

Another question for you, which is the best accountancy bodies is viewed at the best is it ICAEW / ICAS as opposed to say ACCA

I was going to give an answer, but my view will be dismissed because it wouldn’t be representative of the whole community.

For someone that purports to be in the industry, you seem to know very little about the industry.

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