Tax Return 2012/13 UK Property

Tax Return 2012/13 UK Property

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Hello, my client renting a property and the property is managed by letting agency. What my client could claim as expenses and what should I put in box 24, as I saw on previous Tax Returns the amounts were deducted (Tax Return 2011/12 was £180, Tax Return 2010/11 £150), and my client do not know what it was? Is anybody can help me, please? Thank , KS Bookkeeping Services

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By sparkler
19th Jun 2013 20:34

Box 24 is for "rent, rates,

Box 24 is for "rent, rates, insurance, ground rates" etc. So you need to ask your client if he has incurred any such costs for the year in question. Be aware that if his property income accounts are prepared on the accruals basis, then there may be a prepayment from 2011/12 to include in Box 24.

 

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Replying to Manchester_man:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 21:02

box 24 UK Property Tax Return 2012/13

I have heard about some 'use home as office rates', kind of fixed flat rate, could be such as cost go there in the box 24 UK Property Tax Return? Thanks, KS

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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 20:56

box 24

I have heard about some 'use home as office rates', kind of fixed flat rate, could be such as cost go there in the box 24 UK Property Tax Return? Thanks, KS

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By sparkler
19th Jun 2013 21:07

Sorry, I am entirely lost.  Is your client renting out a property to tenants, or are they receiving income from renting a part of their home to a limited company under a licence agreement?  Some background would be helpful as your follow-up question doesn't make a great deal of sense.

I have clients who receive income for rental of part of their home to their limited company. Such income is reported in the property pages, and the proportion of home expenses attributable to the business use of the home go in the expenses section in the relevant boxes. Usually the income equals the expenses so there is no profit, but it's a tax deductible expense in the company's accounts.

I'm not sure what kind of a situation you are referring to.

Edit - just realised that you state the property is managed by letting agents so it must be a normal property rental to tenants.  I have not seen a "use of home as office" cost in the expenses section of a rental property tax return before. If the property is managed by a letting agency, why would the client have any costs for using his home as an office regarding this property rental?  

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Replying to Matrix:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 21:16

But that would be possible, and that would be appear in box 24? Do you know possibly how to calculate that amount? I heard about two ways and which ways its appropriate? Thanks, KS

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Replying to NH:
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By sparkler
19th Jun 2013 21:26

No, I don't think it would be possible

KSBookkeeping Services wrote:

But that would be possible, and that would be appear in box 24? Do you know possibly how to calculate that amount? I heard about two ways and which ways its appropriate? Thanks, KS

Would it be possible?  Why would the client have a use of home as office expense for a property rental? I do not think it is an appropriate expense to be including in the property pages.  

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Replying to Tim Vane:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 21:32

But why the accountants would put those figures without reason? They had to take it from somewhere? Do you know if they could put something unusual than rates, insurance and ground rents? Thanks, KS

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Replying to DJKL:
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By andy.partridge
19th Jun 2013 22:10

Good point

KSBookkeeping Services wrote:

But why the accountants would put those figures without reason?


But why would the client sign off the return as being correct without reason?
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Replying to shamilkaria:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 22:22

The main thing is they did sign , but they do not know from where those figures come from. That's why I am trying to find out, because I am the same thinking as you and I am fully agreed with, but I had heard about that use home as office rates and thought maybe they put as that. So , I was confused also. That's why I did put it on here to find out, as I could basically do not know. So its for sure not possible. Thanks 

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Replying to Matrix:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 21:23

I will be honest with you, something was deducted as expense in box 24 and my client do not know as she did not give any invoice for the previous accountants, so I am trying to figure out what was deducted previously by the accountants, and I cannot ask them. the amounts was TR 2011/12 £180, TR 2010/11 £150 . Thanks, 

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Replying to Matrix:
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By sparkler
19th Jun 2013 21:29

probably not use of home as office then...

KSBookkeeping Services wrote:

I will be honest with you, something was deducted as expense in box 24 and my client do not know as she did not give any invoice for the previous accountants, so I am trying to figure out what was deducted previously by the accountants, and I cannot ask them. the amounts was TR 2011/12 £180, TR 2010/11 £150 . Thanks, 

I would hazard a guess that the amounts deducted were NOT use of home as office expenses!

I would hazard a further guess that they were perhaps one of "rent, rates, insurance or ground rates".  

Presumably your client has given you all of their expense details for the property rental, and therefore you will be able to complete the property pages for this year. 

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By Fred Smith
19th Jun 2013 21:20

Now this might be harsh but I suggest that you stick with book keeping as mistakes will cost clients money.  I only target clients and work within my skill set.

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By Fred Smith
19th Jun 2013 21:30

Useful to look at prior years but you are interested in 12/13 and if you have no evidence of costs then the answer in nil.

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By sparkler
19th Jun 2013 21:37

Insurance?

If your client owns a property which she is renting out, then surely she has some buildings insurance for that property? Landlords insurance? That would be, in my opinion, the most likely explanation for the expenses in box 24.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 21:58

Okay, I will speak to my client and ask about the building insurance or kind of other evidence.  Do you know maybe the professional fees ,box 27, from the previous year my client did not pay the accountancy fees, but did pay later. And I cannot see that was included in Tax Ret 2011/12, do I need to add that amount in this Tax Ret 2012/13 and add my invoice figure also as accountancy fee, or should I include my invoice for the next tax year 2013/14? Thank you, KS

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By foxmeister
19th Jun 2013 22:01

Business use of your home
Not sure if this is what you were talking about, but there's is a new simplified tax return for 2013/2014 regarding the flat rate of business use of your home.
https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-tax-simplified-expenses/business-use-o...

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Replying to shamilkaria:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
19th Jun 2013 22:16

Thank you for that, but box 27 I still do not know. Have you got any idea about that? Invoice- accountancy fees had not been included in Tax Ret 2011/12, do I still have to include that amount in TR 2012/13 and plus my invoice also? And have you got maybe some forma or example letters to previous accountants about I will take over the client and if they can forward any issue about my client. Do you know where I can find them? Thank you, KS

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By jack-jones
19th Jun 2013 23:58

Astounding!

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By Ned Ludd
20th Jun 2013 02:47

Box24
Box 24 is more than likely an estimate of property insurance as sated by sparkler above.

Prof fees will be a provision for the accountants fee whether subsequently paid or not.

As stated above; concentrate on getting the year you are doing correct. There is no secret expense included in any box. The expenses are what they are.

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Replying to jcace:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
20th Jun 2013 21:49

Hello, do you know maybe about the UK Property Tax Return if you have schedule , its kind of list off all expenditure for the year with yearly service charge what how can be worked out all those figure, what could be deductible how to do it? I have got for year 2010 and 2011 actual figures, like water rates, insurance (building, directors and officers and terrorism), and other like management fee, health and safety.....etc How to get right figure and what should I do? Thanks, KS

 

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By ACDWebb
21st Jun 2013 08:51

Analyse them to their relevant parts

for the return and use accruals basis

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Replying to Andywho is fed up:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
21st Jun 2013 22:21

Hello, thank you for replying to me. If for example Management cost for the year 2009 was £5,428; 2010 £6,378, what the figure should go for the tax year 2011/12? Thank you, KS

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By Ned Ludd
21st Jun 2013 22:38

£7000
:)

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Replying to johnt27:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
21st Jun 2013 22:51

Can I ask you how did you get that figure? Thanks, KS

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The triggle is a distant cousin of the squonk (pictured)
By Triggle
21st Jun 2013 22:45

I'm sorry but that's ten questions and the panel have failed to guess your occupation.

Host: "What is it?"

<Pause for effect>

Contestant: "I'm a a Saggar Maker's Bottom Knocker."

 

 

 

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
21st Jun 2013 23:13

That's okay. I am maybe not that good, but I am believe you will help me to solve all my questions and get it right. Thank you, KS

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By Paul Soper
22nd Jun 2013 00:04

Get real

How many of these posts must we put up with???

I visit this site and try to work my way through the unanswered questions on the grounds that they need some help and then we have this joker... "I am maybe not that good"...

Just employ a real accountant to sort this out and stop pretending... Is there a moderator who can deal with this waste of time???

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Replying to Ganesh:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
22nd Jun 2013 00:14

I cannot see you are helping, but thank you anyway. I will sort it out and I will get all the help with all areas where I am a bit confused. Thank you, KS

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By Ned Ludd
22nd Jun 2013 00:34

Seriously KS there is no answer to calculating the correct 2012 charge based on earlier years figures.

You need to obtain the full rental income records and establish the correct income and expenses from those records.

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Replying to Tim Vane:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
22nd Jun 2013 21:13

Hello, thank you , sorry I put some wrong dates, I have got Actual Figure from 1 Jan 2011 - 31 Dec 2011 for example Management Fee which was £6,673, next column Budget Figure 1 Jan 2012 - 31 Dec 2012 Manag. Fee £6,910, next column Draft Expenses Manag Fee of £6,910; last column Budget 1 Jan 2013 - 31 Dec 2013 Manag. Fee of £7,047. From all that information what would be the figure entered on Tax Return 2012/13 of deductable expenses of Management Fee, what amount I should include and how I can work it out? Do you know maybe? Many Thanks, KS

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By Fred Smith
22nd Jun 2013 21:11

arghhhhhh

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By Ned Ludd
22nd Jun 2013 21:23

Crikey
Wasn't far out with that £7k guess

:)

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Replying to Tickers:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
22nd Jun 2013 21:49

:0) Do you how can I analyse

:0) Do you know how can I analyse those figures maybe? I know I suppose to include the actual amount charged, but its year end 2011? Or Shall I use budgets figures? I am a bit confused. Thank you, KS.

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Replying to SteveOH:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
23rd Jun 2013 21:10

Yes, thank you for your answer. Thank you for trying to help me, I do appreciate. The letting agents do collect the rent. I have some knowledge and I did all qualifications, but that is my first job, so that's why I am trying to get some help, to avoid any mistake. I do this job for my friend, just to help, that's all. When you had your fist job, did you know everything already from your first day?

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By andy.partridge
23rd Jun 2013 12:09

Quick question

Do you know how to use a telephone?

If so, use it to arrange an appointment with an accountant. You may get a brief free consultation that can answer your questions. Otherwise, if they seem like they know what they are doing, appoint them to handle the return on your behalf.

My reading of the situation is that you could ask 100 more questions here and still be no closer to getting it right.

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By sparkler
23rd Jun 2013 21:30

.

Any Answers is an excellent forum and there is much help to be found - but contributors will quickly tire of "timewasters" who don't appear to grasp the fundamental concepts of whatever topic they have sought help about.  I always think quite carefully before posting any questions to make sure that they do not come across as something I should be expected to know already, or are poorly worded.  

I think the fundamental concept which appears to have been missed, in your query, is that you are completing the tax return for the period 2012-13 (that is, 6 April 2012 to 5 April 2013), but you appear to be trying to do so using figures (possibly even budgeted, rather than actual, figures) from earlier years.  

You need to go back to your client/friend, and explain very simply that to do the 2012-13 tax return, you need to obtain from your client/friend all of the income and expenses figures that relate to the period 6 April 2012 to 5 April 2013.  If your client/friend then gives you the same schedule previously referred to, you need to explain that the information provided is not sufficient, and that you cannot help them unless they give you the figures for the correct year.

I agree with all of the above contributors that you seem a little out of your depth with regard to the property pages of the tax return.  Perhaps you could engage a suitable accountant to prepare the return, and ask them to explain all of the figures in the property pages once the tax return is completed, to help you get a better understanding of the tax return.

Finally, I would suggest that you consider that if you are just doing the job to help out your friend, it wouldn't be very helpful if the figures end up being wrong, and your friend might appreciate it if you step aside earlier in the process than later.

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Replying to pumnoo:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
23rd Jun 2013 23:05

Thanks, I do know that Tax Returns 2012/13 that all income and expenses included should be from 6 April 2012 - 5 April 2013, but that  was different situation because the previous accountants (very professionals) for Tax Returns 2011/12 I am not sure about that, maybe I am wrong, included figures based on Year 2010 Actual (1 Jan 2010 - 31 Dec 2010) or Budget 2011/2012? I was trying to figure out what was done previously, and what should be done. 

 

But that was very good advice to make an appointment with some Tax Adviser and get all the figures done properly and perfectly right as I do not wish anything wrong to my friend! 

Thank you for your full understanding of situation , KS

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By Paul Soper
23rd Jun 2013 23:15

Not retiring yet....

Well - this is quite incredible - I don't think our community has ever attempted to help anyone more for such a small return.  Apparently KS has completed all of the professional qualifications (can we ask which ones?) and is just doiung a favour for a friend but is unbale to pose a question in a way that we can answer even though many members of this community have tried but failed (I will freely admit I haven't helped because I would rather get rid of timewasters and try to help people who pose questions but don't get an answer) - look Mr KS - if you don't know the answer to this question (these questions) you need to engage someone at your own expense who does.

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By KSBookkeeping Services
24th Jun 2013 00:02

I do have AAT qualifications, I do accounting job, but that is first time I do Tax Return for somebody else and specially property. I was just a bit confused and sorry for wasting your time, I did not mean it. Thanks, 'Miss'  KS ;)

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