Temporary Workplace Question

Temporary Workplace Question

Didn't find your answer?

Ltd company client with single-shareholder/director/employee has six-month renewable contract (started May 2014 and continuously renewed since then). Main site is client's premises. Company admin performed from home. Are client's premises a temporary workplace? If so, will 24-month rule apply?

Sorry if this has been answered before; I did a search and could not find exact same circumstances. If anyone finds such a thread, I promise I did try (although obviously not hard enough).

Replies (13)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By rwb
31st Oct 2015 13:01

I'd have thought that clients premises qualify until your Ltd company director expects to have been working there for over 24 months.

So fine for now but assuming the 6 month contract continues to be renewed, it would become a 'permanent' workplace when the 4th contract is signed - so sometime between months 18-24 of attending the client's site - as at that point the expectation is that attendance will extend beyond 24 months.

Thanks (2)
avatar
By Gone Sailing
01st Nov 2015 21:04

Quite common I think

I agree with @rwb.

What makes me nervous is the amount of "admin" done at home to make it the main workplace.

Thanks (1)
Replying to richard.daclark.co.uk:
avatar
By thehaggis
02nd Nov 2015 00:01

Not relevant

Gone Sailing wrote:

I agree with @rwb.

What makes me nervous is the amount of "admin" done at home to make it the main workplace.

The test is whether the travel is to a temporary workplace.  What he does at home or at any other workplace is not relevant.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Geoff56:
avatar
By Gone Sailing
02nd Nov 2015 08:57

Main Workplace

thehaggis wrote:

The test is whether the travel is to a temporary workplace.  What he does at home or at any other workplace is not relevant.

So a person doesn't need a main workplace? Just claims travel to a temporary workplace from whereever?

If home is A, and temporary workplace is B, 10 miles. But one evening he/she decides to go and stay at C.  The next morning travels the 15 miles to B, so claims for the 15 miles?

Thanks (1)
Replying to NYB:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
02nd Nov 2015 11:05

No

Gone Sailing wrote:

thehaggis wrote:

The test is whether the travel is to a temporary workplace.  What he does at home or at any other workplace is not relevant.

So a person doesn't need a main workplace? Just claims travel to a temporary workplace from whereever?

If home is A, and temporary workplace is B, 10 miles. But one evening he/she decides to go and stay at C.  The next morning travels the 15 miles to B, so claims for the 15 miles?

A person does not need to have any permanent workplace. Where they do not have a specific permanent workplace, they may find that they do, in fact, have a permanent workplace which is an area. Alternatively a series of geographically proximate temporary workplaces may be regarded as being the same place, such that the 24 month rule might be breached.

Apart from those points, and the one that I am about to mention, the costs of travel in your example would be allowable.

In order to be allowable though, the travel expenses must be attributable to the employee's necessary attendance at the temporary workplace. If in your example you made C 100 miles away from B, it might be argued that the expenses are attributable to undoing a previous private journey to C, rather than being attributable to travelling to B.

Thanks (2)
avatar
By chatman
02nd Nov 2015 09:37

Temp workplace: amount of admin done at home

The admin done at home would be the normal stuff for this type of company: bookkeeping, issuing sales invoice, liaising with accountant and paying company-related tax.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By thehaggis
05th Nov 2015 20:30

Permanent Workplace

A permanent workplace is a place that is not a temporary workplace. So all places are permanent workplaces unless they meet the definition of a temporary workplace.

The home is not a temporary workplace so travel there is not allowable.

Thanks (0)
Replying to johngroganjga:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
07th Nov 2015 15:14

This is just rubbish

thehaggis wrote:

A permanent workplace is a place that is not a temporary workplace. So all places are permanent workplaces unless they meet the definition of a temporary workplace.

The home is not a temporary workplace so travel there is not allowable.

All workplaces are permanent workplaces unless they are temporary workplaces.

A workplace is a place at which the employee's attendance is necessary in the performance of the employment duties.

Just because some work is done at home, does not mean that attendance there was necessary in the performance of the employment duties.

Homes will seldom satisfy the definition of workplace, and so the cost of travel between home and a temporary workplace will be allowable.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Gone Sailing
07th Nov 2015 17:16

So either way ...

Gosh this is awfully helpful.

So either way, if a home is a permanent workplace or no workplace at all, then travel to a temporary workplace from home is allowable (subject to 24 month rule), because the rule is to a temporary workplace and doesn't state where from.

It all changes next April I think

Thanks (0)
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
08th Nov 2015 12:17

No. That bit was completely wrong too.

The rule is not that travel to a permanent workplace is not allowable, but that travel between home and a permanent workplace is not allowable.

So travel between home and a temporary workplace will always (under current legislation) be allowable, even if the home is a workplace, which would be unusual, in any event.

Thanks (0)
By Tim Vane
07th Nov 2015 17:48

But what if the permanent workplace is a temporary porta-cabin and the person's home is a mobile caravan and the temporary workplace is a canal barge that can moor at different places and the worker is a traveller who also works for a seasonal funfair and has a dog called Horton and a cat called Samadian?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Gone Sailing
07th Nov 2015 20:33

Yes but ...

Didn't you say above that travel between 'somewhere else' and a temporary workplace is allowable?

I said to but I thought between ie. to include the return to whereever.

Appreciate the detail.

Thanks (0)
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
08th Nov 2015 12:40

Yes but the point theidiot appeared to be making was that travel from the temporary workplace to home was not allowable, because home (not itself being a temporary workplace) was a permanent workplace, which was absolute nonsense at all levels.

It is all perfectly simple if one just applies the two pages of legislation.

Because HMRC have decided that it takes 100 pages of guidance with innumerable examples to explain those two pages of legislation, every idiot and his dog have come up with all sorts of ways to get around the 100 pages of guidance and innumerable example, that in all probability fail when the legislation is applied.

This is what has lead to the ridiculous state of affairs that we are now in, whereby it is considered necessary to write it all over again.

Tim you forgot to mention the parrot, named Newsom.

Thanks (0)