UK-Greece Double taxation ?

UK-Greece Double taxation ?

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Hello there.

I am a Greek citizen, self-employed (in Greece) since 2005, paying taxes & national insurance in Greece sicne then.  I came to the UK in 2008 (as a temporary employee for 6months, while studying); and then again 2011 for work (temporary employee again, for a year) , and since 2012 I got a pemanent job contract ..   So from what i have understood, since 2012 I am a tax resident in Greece, but also a tax resident in the UK, and my main domicile is in the UK since 2012. I also have income from a property in greece, approx. 5,000 per year - which may be a problem from what I have understood , as I have been paying taxes for this rental income in Greece, but not in the UK.

this year,  I have been trying to move my tax residence in Greece to the 'foreign residents' and I need a residents certificate.. Hence why I need to complete tax return forms  for 2013-4 and 2014-5 . But I m stuck in the remittance pages. ..

My first question is : am I considered a UK resident for the UK these years ? For the Greek authorities, it s in Greece, as I have not declared to the authorities that I am moving to the UK - this takes a huge amount of time, and one needs to prove they are a resident abroad first ... ; for the Uk authorities , it  sin the UK , and in both countries I m liable for my world-wide income ..

My second question is:  can I only claim tax relief if my domicile is non-UK .. ? can't i not claim tax relief for these years since i have been paying taxes to the Greek authorities ?

My third question is whether anyone could recommend a practice that specilizes in double taxation UK-Greece, residence and tax returns .. :)

Many thanks .. 

e

Replies (8)

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By User deleted
05th Jun 2015 06:54

I don't know anything about Greece taxation, but the UK-Greece tax treaty is some 60+ years old. As regards the UK:

1. Your tax residence is subject to a residence test from 06 April 2013. You could take the test here, which will give you an idea as to how it works

2. I think you're confusing domicile with residence - in all probability you're domiciled in Greece, but are tax resident in the UK. I don't know, may be, you're tax resident in Greece as well, according to Greece tax laws, in which case you'll be dual tax-resident.

3. Even if you're dual tax resident you should get credit for tax (paid in the other country) relief in both the countries. Have a read of HS302.

4. The UK part is pretty is clear; if you'll get credit relief for taxes paid in Greece if the same income is taxable again in the UK. 

Thanks (2)
Replying to stepurhan:
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By elena_p
08th Jun 2015 12:20

thanks a lot for this, i will check the domicile -residence differnece ..

am a dual tax-resident according to the UK-Greek tax treaty, which provides that 'resident' does not mean the person who is actually livign in the country, but a person who is considered as such for tax purposes ... i thought there could only be one tax residence in the EU .. shouldn't it.

one question only now, which is the part in the tax return that says you get credit relief if you have already paid ? for myself and other greeks that i know of, the problem is that income from house rent is taxed differently in the two countries.. in greece, the tax up to 11,000euros is 11% , whereas in the UK is more, depedning on your scale, eg 20 or 40%. . the UK tax authorities at many cases have been calculating the differnece classifying this as uppaid tax, since 2008..

 

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By Steve Kesby
05th Jun 2015 10:54

I doubt...

... that you will find a practice in the UK specialising in the Greek side of things. Greek taxation is changing on a daily basis at the moment, as I understand it.

The UK-Greece treaty has no tie-breaker clause, and so technically you can be tax resident in both the UK and Greece, but the Greek authorities accept that you are not Greek resident if you can demonstrate that you are resident elsewhere.

For that, you will need a residence certificate from HMRC, as you say. HMRC do seem reluctant to issue residence certificates to former Greek residents until they've been here for a while, due to the large numbers of Greek tax migrants at present.

I'm still trying to get a residence certificate for a Greek citizen that has been resident and full-time employed in the UK for over four years.

The Greek property is taxable in both Greece and the UK (subject to a remittance basis claim) under the treaty, but the UK should give credit for the Greek tax, up to the amount of UK tax due on the income.

Thanks (1)
Replying to North East Accountant:
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By elena_p
08th Jun 2015 12:31

yes, exacly, so the Greek property is taxable in both Greece and the UK subject to a remittance basis claim under the treaty, i think that s art 14 para 1& 2 of the treaty .. I m not sure if the practice of 'giving up to the amount of UK tax due on the income' is part of the treaty though .. the spirit of the treaty is that even with dual residence, you still get taxed under Greek law, for greek income, and UK law , for UK income ..

not to mention the difference between rent prices in greece and UK.

about the certificate, it s easier to get it in the last months, it seems; the residence permit takes an eternity and might never come, but tax authorities in grrece now accept also P60 +apostile stamp .. 

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Replying to johnt27:
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By frances j
06th Dec 2015 14:40

Acceptance of P60

Elena, you say that the Greek tax authority now accepts a stamp apostille`d P60. If you have gone through this process can you tell me if the Foreign and Commonwealth Office accepted the P60 without it having been first certified by a notary or solicitor in the UK?

I am going through this process at the moment and cannot establish whether the P60 is classified as a document issued by the Inland Revenue. The FC office seems to say that unless a document shows an official`s signature it must first be certified

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By elena_p
08th Jun 2015 12:44

last clarification, the hmrc has this interpretation of the uk dual tax treaty for greece :  'If, therefore, you are dual-resident in the UK and one of the countries listed below (i.e incl Greece ), you will only be able to obtain relief by way of credit for one country’s tax against the others, and you do not need to complete the claim form attached to this helpsheet (i.e. claim full relief)

 

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By Asimadk
13th Oct 2018 10:40

Hi

In 2016/17, Mr XYZ (a Greek domiciled also UK residence for tax purpose) had 20000 rental income from Greece and paid 4000 tax there. When completing UK tax, I was expecting to see 20000 added to his UK earning to determine total income, calculate tax and deduct 4000 that he paid in Greece. However taxcalc added 16000 (20000-4000) to his income but no deduction of Greek tax!

Any helpful advise will be appreciated!

-Asim

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Replying to Asimadk:
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By Tax Dragon
13th Oct 2018 20:51

Relief can be by deduction (reduce the taxable amount e.g. 20,000 less 4,000) or by credit (tax the full amount e.g. 20,000 and set tax v tax).

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