fFor almost 6 months I have been searching for an accountant who is willing to take on a novice in the comprehension of tax and bookkeeping within a small business. I have met with several, ranging from the firm with the plush offices in the town centre who left me in no doubt that their offices created the best image for what they do and i should understand that such an enviroment doesnt come cheap so obviously it would reflect in there fees..to the maverick young gun in his small state of the art office set up from converted house with the walls adorned with mounted 40inch tvs showing sports from around the world in a clinically white walled room with no real interest in my lack of confidence or ability..to the "accountant" guy in his shared office who also wanted to advise me as to how i should run my business with guaranteed regular site visits to ensure that any failings in my abilities would be picked up by him...to the guy who came to my home and assurred me he could help as accountant but i would have to employ another firm aswell if i needed to do payrole and provide payslips for employees..
I am not asking to reinvent the wheel...I'm simply asking for some good old fashioned " friendly advice" from a group of well educated people in their chosen field.
My background is simple..im a 54yr old guy from N.Ireland now living in England since 1980..educated in a secterian area of belfast where for some avioding trouble and surviving conflict was more important than o levels, or so it seemed at the time.
I have been in the fast food business ( Fish & Chips) for the last 14years and have successfully owned 2 leasehold shops which helped financed the purchase of a freehold shop with connected family home..my wife and her father and family took very good care of the bookwork side of things whilst i cooked ,marketed,managed all other associated aspects of the busnesses success..after divorcing this year. .At the time I had no need to have any real interest in the financial bookwork of our businesses as it was taken care of for me by the family and the family accountant.
I have the opportunity to start again on my own with a premises soon to be available and it wil require all the funds i currently have available with no spare monies..
i simply would like to find an accountant locally( Midlands) who has a passion for what they do and in particular is willing to coach me through the setting up and maintianing good bookwork while understanding my obligations in all financial areas connected. I have a bookkeeper in place willing to help me also which will half the accountants assocciated works.So that there is no missunderstanding of my lack of comprehansion in my lack of understanding...i have three sets of year end accounts which i struggle to follow the terminology of...am no longer embarrassed by my lack of knowledge as my drive and passion for what i want is too strong.
i considered contacting the federation of small business to ask if they had perhaps a young newly qualified accountant who was hungry and passionate to build a client base but who could be simpathetic,understanding,approachable,patient,but more importantly some who i can work "with" not "for" as between accountants and solicitors im always left feeling that although i am paying for a service ,im infact the person working for them..!
I posted a quetion in relation to my situation on this site 11th sept however the first response was sarcastic , arrogant, condisending and patronising..
Any help ,direction,tips,hints or otherwise in finding a suitable person would be appreciated even down to the questions i should ask an accountant when i find him or her..
Many thanks
regards Sean Bloomfield
Replies (24)
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Course
Training is expensive and you maybe better taking a simple book-keeping course.
I have no desire to be sarcastic but frankly what you are asking for is not what the average accountant is interested in. Most accountants are happy to provide advice on type of bookkeeping package and a few hours training but would have no desire to train you to do their work.
rejections?
You have met a range of accountants. Didn't any of them fit the bill? I'm not clear how they fell short compared to what you are looking for.
6 months looking for an accountant? Picking the right person is paramount, but do you think you are being rather picky?
No spare monies...
"I have the opportunity to start again on my own with a premises soon to be available and it wil require all the funds i currently have available with no spare monies..."
I'm confused. Are you asking for somebody to help you without expecting to be paid, and then getting annoyed because nobody is keen to do so?
No disrespect but
if you have been searching for six months and have not yet found what you are looking for then perhaps the problem lies with you. Maybe your expectations are to high for what you are prepared to pay for!
Looking for good old fashioned advice should not be to difficult to find.
.
Sean,
I disagree with some of the comments above. What you are asking for ought to be "what accountants do"
ie help with accounting and systems, but not actually doing the bookkeeping,
explaining what is going on financially in the business, but not running it.
And then dealing with year end compliance work and explaining it to you such that you have a decent idea what is in there it matches you understanding of the business.
For wages, it is often sensible to outsource those, they are more "bookkeeping" type work than "accountant" type work, although some firms will offer this - it tends to be larger ones who have some low grade staff. its not good use of your accountants time to do this.
I dont tend to work in your area, but lots of accountants do.
For what you want I would look mainly at the smaller end, so probably be a 1-3 person set up.
I actually think you are being very sensible in trying to get what you want, but you may need to compromise to an extent if you go for a smaller firm in terms of what is outsourced.
But yes you can get this. Moreover if you understand what is going on you should make a "good client" from an accountants point of view. The worst sort are ones who don't have a clue and expect you to somehow work out what is going on in their business.
I hope that helps, NB the young ones right out of training are less likely to have the softer coaching skills you are after. As a rule of thumb hire someone your age or 5-10 years younger so they don't retire on you!
I hope that helps, but do expect to pay a decent sum of money for all this help. What you are asking for is probably going to take 4-5 times what it would take to just "do the year end" so fees will match it.
The issue may be you are trying to buy a nice second hand Jag whilst looking at what Honest Joe has got in his lot for £250.
What exactly do you need help with?
If you have a bookkeeper then they are going to be doing most of the work for you. You will just need to give them all invoices/credit notes/bank statements you have available for them to process. Any problems the bookkeeper has they should be asking you for anything they don't have which should be simple enough.
I searched for midland accountant on google and the first result had description on their page about being willing to provide advice for sole traders. Won't post the link but maybe they seem like they may be good for you.
There's not really much else to say on this unless you specify exactly what it is you need help with. The onus is on the business owner to know how to run a business.
Not read all of this thread but the OP's heading was "where has the honest passion to help gone..???".
I'm not sure what this means but I am sure most accountants are honest and have some passion for their careers. They are also trying (like many people - including the OP) to earn a living in very challenging times. They (and the OP) are therefore entitled to take a view as to the type of work they wish to take on.
I don't know what is meant by "take on a novice in the comprehension of tax and bookkeeping within a small business" but most accountants aren't in the business of, nor geared up for, providing training in the geneally accepted sense. Aside other considerations, they would be shooting themselves in the foot somewhat teaching someone how to do the job themselves!
the "accountant" guy in his
the "accountant" guy in his shared office who also wanted to advise me as to how i should run my business with guaranteed regular site visits to ensure that any failings in my abilities would be picked up by him...
It sounds like this "accountant" guy would have been your best bet but that you have taken his comments personally. You have openly said that you lack confidence and knowledge in the area so he probably thought you would appreciate having the extra support and someone able to highlight any errors or improvements which could be made.
I'm not really sure what you're asking for. I can recommend someone in the midlands if you like but I'm struggling to establish what you need?
Ask local small businesses
Hello Sean
I hope you will read as far as this.
If you were near to us I would be delighted to help.
If you ask the local small businesses I am sure one of them will know who you should go to.
Good luck.
I feel that you may want a parr time......
..... financial director/controller type role. In my opinion this is a more qualified book keeper that can also offer other tax and accountancy advice.
A lot of smaller accountants will office this service, but they will be more expensive than a normal book keeper. I offer such a service at £40 per hour and I suspect others will be about the same charge. The problem is a lot of small businesses compare this to a book keeper that may charge £20 per hour and decide that it is too expensive.
As for working with and not for the accountant.I am not sure what your angle is here as our industry is governed (In the looser term) by the laws and regulations and we all must seek to work within these sscopes.
find an accountant that is willing to offer a financial director/controller role and this pay in the long run.
I am not local to you and quite opinionated, so may not be the best fit and not looking for your custom, but I can be patient, sympathetic, understanding for £40 per hour as long as you are prepared for me to work within the rules and regulations of my profession.
Now, you are being personal
Was my advice on 11th correct?
Isn't that the priority when you post on a free site?
Your assumptions in your previous question were so wrong that I, admittedly, used a rather blunt instrument to make my point. If you are going to be that thin-skinned about receiving correct advice on a free site I wonder what you would be like to work with?
The perfect client
I'd second ireallyshouldkn's comments above.
Given how many members on here slag off their clients for not having a clue, or worse, not wanting to have a clue, I think you have the makings of a perfect client. For any of mine who show an aptitude and willingness to learn & understand the financial ins & outs of their business, how tax and accounts work, I'm happy to pass on as much knowledge as possible, even if it means they do 95% - 100% of the basics (including the accounts & tax) and come to me for extra advice, updating or just peace of mind.
Yes, imparting that knowledge will cost you, but it's an investment and you are far better placed to make good business decisions day to day without the grief of constantly having to pester your accountant.
These days there's a wealth of good advice and information out there to keep you informed and with modern cloud based bookkeeping systems, not only are your books available to you and your bookkeeper, wherever you are, but they are easier to learn & understand than the old deskbound stuff and unless you have over complicated staff pay arrangements, with a bit of initial hand-holding, you can even do your own payroll.
If you did want to look at cloud accounting then many of the systems provide directories of accountants who are familiar with it but, whoever you approach, the best way to save wasting your & their time is to make it clear upfront that you want to learn what they do with a view to only needing them for the valuable stuff.
truth is....
most micro businesses produce garbage accounting information .. its not their fault
we are all one trick ponies
just stick to basic books of prime entry (in whatever format) and leave the analysis et al.. to the accountant
... a fish and chip fryer will be as competent and successful as an accountant will be trying to fry decent fish and chips
Rocket Science?
Firstly, I think part of the OP (Sean's) problem is a lack of trust in people. It's the basis of a sound working relationship between accountant and client. In that regard, perhaps you have a friend in business who might recommend an accountant? That at least gives you a starting point. Maybe the Accountant for the old business' (although it sounds that might be unlikely).
Secondly though, let's not blow our own trumpets as accountants. This is simple. I say this with all due respect to the OP. This is a fish and chip shop. It buys fish, batters it, chops some chips and sells them. It has rent, rates and utilities to pay. It receives predominantly cash (and let's face it, all of that may not end up in the financials!) and will pay the majority of suppliers by bank transfer given the day and age in which we live. I cannot imagine the credit offered to the business is extensive partly because of the business and partly because of Sean's posts here (old school attitude, pays debts, etc.) a probably doesn't like to owe money).
Only other variable is possibly equipment, but that is covered (allegedly) by Sean's current capital.
So, Sean, I would say to you that you need two (possibly three) things when considering your financial compliance:
1. A Till system capable of printing a report of a cash/card takings. You can look to 'the cloud' for that sort of thing, such as vend.com. Alternatively, just get an old style till and bang it in; just keep your till rolls.
2. To keep your purchase invoices in a reasonably organised state.
3. Payroll services, if required.
With that, you can then visit the Accountant every year (or perhaps quarter if VAT registration is required) and have your calculations done.
In terms of financial management and the gut feel for knowing where you are... Look in your wallet and look in the bank. It's very likely to be almost equal to your profit. Put say 40% aside and enjoy.
starting a business
Dear Sean,
I just you were based near me in London!
You are my sort of client. Interested in your business and how business books and records work.
I do see myself as partly an educationalist and in fact I am very happy to explain properly and carefully how books and records work.
I do eveything myself and in fact would be more than happy to have a telephone conversation with you and so point you in the right direction.
Good luck in your search
David Barry
020 8252 7018/07877671423
@ David
I don't know if you are a blogger, but if so I would be very interested to hear how this develops.
Unfortunately, the OP has not informed us why the relationships with all the previous accountants have not worked out. That would be equally interesting.
You are welcome
Very nice to have a thank you to the community. I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that I wish you the best of luck.
Welcome any time if you have any issues!