Which bookkeeping software for business with no invoices?

Which bookkeeping software for business with no...

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A client's bookkeeper currently uses excel and it is just too manual.  I am currently moving clients to VT and FreeAgent.

This business provides physio services and uses a software system to record the sales.  If I move the client to FreeAgent then the transactions come through the bank feed.  So will not agree to the sales and the bookkeeper does no do double entry bookkeeping.  I would then have to make bookings which makes it manual again.

I don't think the bookkeeper could deal with VT either.

Which software do your clients use where no invoices or cash?

Do FreeAgent/Xero take feeds from third party software?

Replies (14)

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By ShirleyM
09th Dec 2014 21:04

Eh?

A bookkeeper who can't manage simple accounting software. I think you are probably being a little harsh. We have clients (not bookkeepers) using VT Cashbook and doing a really good job. OK, they don't reconcile everything, but virtually all of them manage to reconcile the bank.

Get the bookkeeper to download the free VT Cashbook, and have a go. It's the easiest bookkeeping software to learn that I've come across, and that's why clients can use it AND give us good data to work from.

 

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By Minnie136
09th Dec 2014 23:21

Thanks

There are nearly 200 transactions a month so VT Cashbook would not be the right one.

If they use VTT+ and use the bank feed then how do they get it to agree to their management information from the other software?  I mean to get it to an accruals basis.

Do you always start with a cash basis and then book accruals for clients?

The bookkeeper seems good on excel and can produce management reports, she has no accountancy background so would not be able to book an accrual and I am fed up with having management reports on an accruals basis (monthly sales) which never agrees to the bank.

 

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Replying to DJKL:
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By cbp99
10th Dec 2014 09:15

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Minnie136 wrote:

There are nearly 200 transactions a month so VT Cashbook would not be the right one.

Why ever not? VT Cashbook could cope with 2,000 transactions a month.

But I sounds as though there are a lot of sales invoices to be matched with receipts, in which case VT Transaction+ for a modest one-off £125 is the solution.

Edit - on re-reading the OP. There are no sales invoices, but a record of sales in another software system. Is there any reason why VT should not replace the software which currently records sales?

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By ShirleyM
10th Dec 2014 08:47

It isn't the software that is the problem
It's the bookkeeper, or possibly yourself. You would still have the same problem no matter what software is used.  If you don't like the way the records are presented, then you have to persuade/teach the bookkeeper how to present the records in the way you want. This one-off training would be chargeable, but should, in turn, earn for a lower fee, year after year, for preparing the accounts. That's the argument I use when trying to persuade clients to present better records.  The other alternatives are to carry on as you are, or give them the boot. EDIT: Sorry .. for some reason the paragraphs aren't working, and I've tried enabling/disabling rich text.

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By Ken Howard
10th Dec 2014 09:23

Import into VT

Just use the VT import function to import the sales invoices each month, and also to import the bank transactions each month.  Both are easy if the raw data is in excel/csv format from the sales invoice system and online bank login.

VT will remember which ledger each transaction has been imported into previously, so it's only the first time of each type of transaction where you need to manually tell it which ledger to post to, i.e. which customer, which supplier, which nominal ledger, etc.

I do this for a client who had thousands of transactions every month and it only takes a morning - tops, with decent management accounts produced by lunchtime.  Year end accounts are likewise dead quick and easy.

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By Minnie136
10th Dec 2014 19:19

Thanks again

VT cashbook - who enters 2,000 transactions manually?

VTT+ - yes I could probably download the sales report in excel but think I need a cloud solution.  Or maybe we could save the file in the cloud and both use it - do others so this?

Please can someone help with the original question - if there are no invoices then how do you book the sales?

As explained before, I have a tax background and have never done bookkeeping.

 

 

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Replying to Matrix:
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By cbp99
11th Dec 2014 09:50

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Minnie136 wrote:

Please can someone help with the original question - if there are no invoices then how do you book the sales?

if you were using VT Cashbook you would simply enter them as receipts, either individually or as the amount credited to the bank, eg several cheques on one credit slip. Obviously you would reconcile this to the sales record.

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By andy.partridge
11th Dec 2014 10:01

Does it matter?

Does your client give credit? If not, the only issue you have is at the year-end to pull in timing differences which can be done as a 'one-off' for the preparation of accounts/tax return.

If your client gives credit then isn't it an odd and badly managed situation that there is no sales ledger?

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By Minnie136
11th Dec 2014 16:32

More questions

crb - thanks but I don't think that manually entering into VT cashbook is the answer here.  Why would you do that when you have the Universal Input sheet in VTT+ or bank feeds in other software? Genuinely interested in the reason.

Andy - there is a sales system which is reconciled with the amounts received in the bank account.  So I have a debtors figure.  The problem is that there is no proper bookkeeping for everything else. The question is which bookkeeping system should I get the client to use given there are no invoices.  I will try and get a feed of the sales but I was just interested, where there are no invoices, how to book the sales? 

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By andy.partridge
11th Dec 2014 16:37

OK

Here's an idea. Use the bank feed as the basis of the sales in the month, supplemented by a reversing journal for trade debtors at the month end.

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By Minnie136
11th Dec 2014 16:54

Not sure

That is what the previous accountant did, however the sales in the month are not the amounts in the bank account but the amounts in the sales report. All this info is readily available. It is just getting a system which will talk to the other system.  I will try and get a feed or transfer via excel.

The purpose is not just to prepare accounts - monthly and quarterly management info is required, this is not a simple one Director, one shareholder company.  (So surprising that no bookkeeping system in place, although I think they have coped to date since no VAT returns.)

Thanks for all the help.

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By andy.partridge
11th Dec 2014 17:09

Why?

Why wouldn't the sales receipts +/- movement in trade debtors equal the sales report?

The weak link is surely the sales reporting system, not the bank so why build a system based around it? You say there is more than one interested party looking at the numbers, all the more reason to have proper controls, which would include a double-entry system. Even my vet produces invoices, so why wouldn't a physio practice?

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

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By Minnie136
11th Dec 2014 17:46

They probably do print out invoices for clients but this is from the sales system, these invoices are currently not in an integrated booking system so I need to still get the numbers in to a bookkeeping system.

Yes I could prob get to the sales figure by doing what you suggest but I don't want to get the sales figure, I want to start with it and then offset it with amounts received in the same way as you would when you book invoices to be paid and then reconcile the bank.

I suppose I was hoping that someone would advise how to do this without just doing a double entry each month for the sales.

How does the vets get their invoices onto a bookkeeping system?

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By andy.partridge
11th Dec 2014 18:06

I don't know

Electrickery?

They have an EPOS system.

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