Would you let the son of another local accountant work for you?

Would you let the son of another local...

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I'm currently advertising, had a CV through from the son of a local well known accountant.

I'm meeting him for coffee on Monday but something just doesn't sit quite right with me for some reason.

Would you employ a family member of somebody in the same game?

Replies (27)

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By Anne Robinson
21st Jan 2016 16:59

Maybe they dont get on
Or don't want to work together (for family harmony)
Wants experience outside the work his father does
And maybe he want as proper salary!

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
21st Jan 2016 17:16

.

I wouldn't employ my kids in my business

1. I would like them to still be family at the end of it.

2. They can stand on their own too feet and not in my shadow

So not that mad. 

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By Moonbeam
21st Jan 2016 17:20

Your Gut reaction is right for you

However marvellous I thought the applicant, no I wouldn't employ him because of his family circumstances. But as I only ever look for part-timers I don't employ anyone who is working part-time for another accountancy firm either.

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By cheekychappy
21st Jan 2016 17:49

Not a chance in hell.

Even if he has had a fall out, that doesn't mean they won't get back on good terms.

Pros

Could get a knowledgeable, hard working and trusted employee.

 

Cons

Could cause sabotage. 

Could steal clients at a later date.

Could feed potential and current client information to his parent for them to undercut you. 

Could have bad habits if his parent isn't a very good accountant.

Probably won't be at your practice for long.

 

Have you looked on his parents website? Do you think he is from a practice where he would fit into your practice? For example, are you a cloud based practice, and they only use Sage? Do they only work with contractors and you don't have a particular niche?

 

Plenty of people are looking for work in the profession. Why take the risk?

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Danny Kent
By Viciuno
21st Jan 2016 17:40

I wouldn't want to either....

To prove not only to others (sad, yes I know) but also to myself that I could go out and do it myself without help just because I was family....I'd want to earn it.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
21st Jan 2016 17:46

Listen

I'd listen to what he had to say.

And make my mind up based on that.

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
21st Jan 2016 18:19

The long game is take him on and then turn him into a double agent spying on his parents' practice; you give him just enough information that his parents still thinks he is spying for them but really his loyalty is to you. ( Just finished the Le Carre biography recently)

Reality is more likely that he does not wish to work for his parents.

My father always wanted one of us to become a solicitor, to eventually join his firm, but there was no way he would have initially taken any of us into his firm, he always said we could be apprenticed to another Edinburgh law firm and make our mistakes with them and in the fullness of time we maybe might join his firm.

Given that last threat we all studied anything but Law  to body swerve the issue (one archaelogy, two foreign languages and one liberal arts) , frankly I can think of nothing worse than working for/with my father, and we got on really well (Maybe if we had worked together we would not have got on really well)

So, maybe you should take pity on him- or turn him!

 

 

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By Tosie
21st Jan 2016 20:04

No

I would not employ him.:

1.If you lost a client to his father's firm you would suspect him.

2 His first loyalty would be to his father rather than you.

3 He would get to know your clients,working practices, fee structure all valuable assets.

 

 

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By GR
21st Jan 2016 21:14

Father would ask

his son about your practice and find out about any of your bad habits/ideas. Father may even pull his son out of your practice. The son will sooner or later make partner in his dad's firm.

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By mikeyban
21st Jan 2016 21:30

Why?
I am a practicing accountant with a reasonably large portfolio.

My daughter is 16 and we have discussed this as a family and have agreed it would be ideal for her to obtain some 'outside' experience.

She will make an exceptional employee and who knows she may not join me in my practice.

Listen to the young person and ask for honesty and see where it takes you both..

Good luck!

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Brunel
By Brunel
21st Jan 2016 21:48

First hand experience

My daughter has worked for a competitor for the last two years. I would never dream of asking her to betray her employer's confidence, it wouldn't be right, and I'd lose my self-respect and her respect, both are priceless.

She would never dream of telling me anything confidential and if she did I'd be very disappointed.

I would have no qualms hiring a competitor's family member.

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By cparker87
21st Jan 2016 23:37

brother
I have a brother working for a local (larger) competitor. There is 10 years between us and he is just starting out. If pressed I could influence him.

As said above I just wouldn't want to put him in a position where he was betraying his employer. Just doesn't sit right. Also don't like the idea of 'cheating'.

I'd give it a go with the young chap and see what he had to say.

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By Diverse Synergy
21st Jan 2016 23:55

then add a pinch of prejudice...

Gobsmacked at how many people have openly admitted they would definitely not hire someone purely based on them being related to a competitor.  To my mind this flouts all manner of anti-discriminatory regulations; and if not the exact letter of the rules, then surely the spirit of them. 

I find the easiest way to identify prejudice is to do a simple test.  Change one factor in the argument, and ask yourself if you still feel the same way about it.  So in this case, change the key factor from them being a competitor's relation to - say for example - if they were a particular gender.  Would you still feel comfortable with your comments that you would flat refuse them employment based purely on who they are, regardless of - I dunno, call me old fashioned - maybe their merit or their CV or their personality?  Next ask yourself why you didn't notice the prejudice in the first place.

Don't beat yourself up over it by the way - no doubt this is partly/largely because the media these days seem to love to place different forms of prejudice into some sort of obscure and highly subjective hierarchy, over which they themselves make up all the rules - eg make a joke about a Frenchman or an Aussie, that's fine apparently.  Joke about an Irishman? - that is more borderline these days, but you still might be ok.  Joke about a woman, or a Jew, or a black person, or a LGBTQXYZABC person?!  - frogmarched to HR, lose your job, imprisoned for hate speech, ostracised by all your friends, even your own dog hates you now and sits the other side of the room; now stay in the corner and think about what you've done... 

So why doesn't that same thing happen when you make a joke about a Frenchman - it's exactly the same prejudice!  Is it just me, or have the very rules we apply to discern prejudice themselves become heavily prejudiced?  Either we can joke and laugh inclusively about the foibles and quirks of each and every demographic, or we can't do it to any demographic.  Currently we have the very worst of both worlds.

And when I say "worlds" that isn't a classist or racial thing... oh, sorry, by "racial" I meant to say xeno-relationally empowered... dig dig dig....  

Oh right, so that is why they do it! - to keep everyone on the back foot constantly thinking about what they can and can't say without possibly offending someone, and basically to trample all over free speech - I get it now!  Anyway, I digress with the shortcomings/quasi-Orwellian takeover by the broadcast and social media...

Where was I - oh yeah -  So, I don't want to come across all self-righteous and/or naïve (no doubt I will though, and maybe I am a bit) - but to still hear this kind of blind prejudice in the 21st Century is frankly appalling.  And I consider myself fairly right-wing (or maybe that is just because the "norm" is now so far to the left, that Bono is at risk of being labelled a fascist.)

Yet what you are doing by saying "definitely would never hire him in a million years" - that is real, genuine, pukka, genuine, unadulterated prejudice*!  And everyone is perfectly ok with it!?   I'm the only one to raise an issue so far?  Have we really forgotten what ACTUAL prejudice is?

*(haha - I genuinely was just about to put 'kosher' in that list of adjectives - phew, lucky I stopped myself in time!  I've taken a punt with 'pukka', as it is popularised in London these days, yet the origins are from the Hindi.  Cockney is way down the bottom of the hierarchy of prejudice, so that's fine I'll get away with mimicking that.  The Hindi origins might still get me into a bit of bother though - it is a bit of a risk.)

Or do we really all blindly follow the media and think that prejudice is something more like if I were to go: a rabbi, a priest and a minister walk into a bar...

- bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztt -

*** This person's account has been terminated - code violation: bigot *** 

Lose all your friends, lose your job, go to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect £200.

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By Ken Howard
22nd Jan 2016 08:43

Seem sensible

My son has shown an interest in becoming an accountant and the first thing I told him was that he won't be working for me whilst he gets himself trained and qualified.  I'll happily let him continue to help me in the school holidays for extra pocket money doing filing, basic data entry, etc., but when the time comes for a full time job, he's out there on his own!

I don't see why he shouldn't work for a competitor, although in reality I'd hope he'd go to train with a larger firm with proper training resources and a broader range of clients/work types.  I'd have no qualms in employing a child of another accountant.  After all, an unconnected employee could still take clients and knowledge with them if they left to join a competitor, so I don't see how a close relative is any different.

Re my son, nothing to do with family fall outs, etc., we get on really well and, personally, I'd love for him to work for me and for us to develop the practice together, but, I've worked in two practices, one father/son and the other father/daughter, where neither child worked anywhere else, and they were both very blinkered towards the outside world and both had major "issues" that made them hard to work for.  They were both always in their father's shadow which perhaps affected their personalities.  Having suffered working in those practices (for very short periods!), I vowed I'd never find myself in that position.  I've also had clients who've employed their children straight from school/uni, and again, not at all impressed with the workplace dynamics - there's always the suggestion that they're only working there because Mummy or Daddy gave them a job and they couldn't find one themselves, so seem to have an inferiority complex or chip on their shoulder.  

Perhaps I've just been unlucky - I'm sure many cases are successes!

Anyway, what I've told my son is that he would have to go out, get his own job in the normal way, get himself trained and qualified, then do another few years as a newly qualified accountant, get his practising certificate, and then, and only then, if he still wanted to work with me, then I'd welcome him with open arms and basically retire and let him have the practice.   But I want him to experience the real world and start his accountancy career on his own two feet.

 

 

 

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By cheekychappy
22nd Jan 2016 09:10

I agree with those saying that they would let, or even prefer their offspring to work for a competitor. I think there are benefits to be had. But I don’t see this as the same as hiring a competitor. The only benefit that the competitor could possibly obtain is that the employee is a good one.

The problem I have, and we see it on here far too frequently, is that many accountants moral compass is skewed. Even if they are genuine, temptation to take clients or pass information on to their parent at a later date will always be there. Those are the risks you are taking.

When you hire staff there’s always an element of risk whether they will turn out ok or not. As a small practice, I just wouldn’t add another layer of risk.

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By acceje
22nd Jan 2016 09:56

I was the daughter of a local accountant when I started out


I'm glad I didn't apply for a job with some of the other posters otherwise I would never have found employment.  I had no interest in working for or with my Dad - I wanted to be independent.  The boy who has applied for the job needs a chance - it's not his fault that his Dad is an accountant too.  After the interview decide if he is the right candidate for the job based on his interview not his parent.

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By morgani
22nd Jan 2016 10:29

Our plan

We have four children and although young two are showing an interest in accountancy.  Currently I don't think our plan would be to train them in our practice.  They need to go out and see what the world is like and forge their own path.  If then they decided they wanted to come work for us then I think I would consider it.

From this point of view I don't consider it odd but I can see the potential threat.

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Replying to JD:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
22nd Jan 2016 11:01

Accountancy need not be terminal (except the losses)

morgani wrote:

We have four children and although young two are showing an interest in accountancy.  

If you catch such desires early enough you can possibly eradicate them before they really take root and cause damage; as a start take away their calculators and forbid them from using excel, in addition some form of aversion therapy might work- say introduce them to your worst client or take them to seminars on FRS102.

 

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
22nd Jan 2016 10:30

Fair interview

Give him a fair interview. As he will no doubt be aware that you know of the connection, I think it would not be unreasonable to ask why he is not working with his father. The posts above cover reasons why this might be the case.

You don't mention his qualifications. If he is a member of a professional body, even as a student, then that gives you an extra level of comfort. No professional body will stand for a member passing on confidential information. Professional ethics should preclude this behaviour.

After that, it comes down to whether they are the right person for the job. You may have other candidates that are better. You may have your doubts about their professionalism from the interview (and that should be a reason not to employ someone regardless of any other factors)

There are plenty of tales of people who have set up on their own with an employer's clients or taken knowledge to other firms. Any other candidate you have could be someone that will do that. It would be ironic if you took on such an unethical person when the accountant's son would have been a paragon of professionalism.

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
22nd Jan 2016 11:25

I agree with Stephuran

Give him a fair interview.  Most sons or daughters do not want to work for their parents.  It is hell on earth from experience.  They don,t mean to but parents when it come to business don,t seem to acknowledge that their kids are capable and could actually add something.  They continue to treat the individual as a child in business my rules my way.  

Parents mean well and of course you love them but just not maybe to work with.  That does not mean you have fallen out with them.    

 It can be stifiling to work for your parent.   I would have much more respect for the son wanting to spread his wings.  In their interview you could raise the concerns to see his reaction. 

So I would give him a chance.  

 

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By Mr_awol
22nd Jan 2016 12:26

Id ask him outright - id say I knew (or knew of) his father and ask whether there was a particular reason he was looking to work elsewhere.  He might come back with maintaining family relationship, dad hasn't got space at the moment, dad doesn't take trainees, ive heard dad is a crap accountant and wanted to learn from the best - who knows?

See what he says.  Open mind and all that.

 

Two things I will say having read other responses though:

1) Trying to make out the OPs legitimate query is in any way similar to 'discrimination' is laughable.  The OP is attempting to make a genuine business decision based upon whether there could be a (real or perceived) conflict of interest, confidentiality issue, etc.

2) Whilst our client list is our most prized possession in many ways, I think sometimes we under-estimate how easy it is to obtain some of that information.  For example I could stroll into a competitor's office if I liked and run my eye down their list of companies for whom they are registered office - or google the postcode etc and see hic company names came up.  Could I then try to poach every corporate client they have?  Yes.  Would all of those clients come to me? No.  If they are doing a good job for a reasonable fee, im going to struggle to sweet talk these clients with a cold call anyway.

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By Diverse Synergy
22nd Jan 2016 23:32

re: Mr_awol

First off, it seems we agree to give the lad a fair crack at least - so great to have some common ground!

It's only really point 1 of your "two things you had to say", that I take issue with - as I was one of the ones to draw the discrimination parallel.

If you found my comments "laughable" as in humorous, then bless you.  It was after all meant to be a whimsical, tongue-in-cheek rant to convey a bit of light relief during self-assessment season.  I even got one "thanks" I notice - which was most unexpected - hope they found it amusing!   It made me chuckle as I was writing it anyway...  I do hope no-one took it too seriously; after I posted it I did fleetingly think "gosh, I hope people realise it was a joke and I don't get reported!" 

If you mean "laughable" as in my argument was derisible, then I'm looking forward to some solid logic behind why you think the discrimination is any less in this situation.  As behind all the facetiousness (probably not a word), I believe there still lies a valid point to what I was saying.  If you judge the chap purely on who he is, that is discrimination pure and simple.

To clarify, I didn't suggest the OP was discriminatory to ask the question.  It is a very valid question.  I only said the people who instantly called to flat reject the candidate based purely on who he was were being discriminatory.  This I stand by.

I also don't say there is no risk, because there is - but you have to deal with it fairly.  Give the lad an interview, and if it throws up any red flags around this risk then you have a bona fide reason to reject his candidacy.  To flat reject from the outset is plain wrong, and just as wrong as any other form of discrimination.  Maybe I'm missing something?  If so please do enlighten me.

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By Mr_awol
23rd Jan 2016 00:22

Laughable
On both counts. Humerous and riddiculous. Hopefully adequately defined.

Yes it was quite obvious that there was an element of tongue-in-cheekedness (another new word) and parts of it did raise the odd smile. But that wasn't the only reason for my choice of word.

I hope this clarifies the position.

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
25th Jan 2016 15:45

How many times do these threads end up......

differentiating those who see something as a threat and others who see it as an opportunity.

For all the reasons above, especially equal ops, I'd treat them like anyone else and, to be honest, as long as the applicant made it clear that they were related to another firm, that should be enough, I'd not insult them by bringing it up, they are there for a job interview.

As it happens I had a similar situation a few years back where the guy wanted to set up under his own steam (in a modern practice), with the hope that, when Dad retired, he'd bring the practice along to us.  Wish we'd tried it.

 

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By elvisisking
25th Jan 2016 16:28

I don't have kids....

so it's difficult for me to say whether I'd want them to work for me. My wife tried working for me once, she was the only person to leave without notice and on bad terms (when she got another job!), so I probably wouldn't.

 Ignore the relationships of the applicant. Meet them for a chat, and then decide. I doubt anyone would admit to employing someone they didn't trust and this should be no different. Presumably it's been easy to work out who their parents are, and don't be afraid to ask the question of why they've applied for you.

Incidentally, a friend of mine's dad was a well reputed accountant. My friend didn't want to work for him. He was also an older parent and would have (and did) sell the practice before his son could have had any senior role. Strangely, he will soon be starting at his dad's firm ten years after he sold it!

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By cheekychappy
25th Jan 2016 16:40

It is now Monday. I am intrigued to see how it went.

Are you going to hire a snake, or did you smell a rat from the start?

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By carnmores
25th Jan 2016 16:57

People have a very low opinion

of their fellow citizens 

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