Sage - Don't want it or like it... BUT

 No it's not the whole world. Just the UK

Australia and South Africa it's Pastel. USA something else and EU - Sage? Whats that? Pastel is far superior, far more accountant friendly (its a true double entry system) and super reports generated. Available here in different versions from bookkeeper to accountant with add ins. There is also a big brother version. Keytime are the UK agent's.

Pricing is reasonable and apparently for £500 you get £2,000 worth of software (big brother as well) if joining the Accounting Group. They use the same selling technique in SA. Get the accountants and clients will follow.

I found it always a bargain and real easy to work within Excel with it as it actually talks to Excel without using Sage's c***p cell formatting.

You can also access the database raw data as it is a 2005+ designed program unlike Sage which is 90's technology made to look pretty.

But can you convert clients/prospects? Very conservative in the UK they are.

 By the way Pastel allows imports from other accounting packages. Either in detail or a cvs file (TB) and will generate a journal report which you can E-Mail the client (direct from the program) or else you do yourself.

I tell clients I don't like Sage, never recommend it and suggest that they use something else. 

I do have a few clients who use it, but that's because they have book-keepers who don't know any different and imposed it on the client who really couldn't be bothered what the book-keeper used.

I'll only accept client's Sage reports in excel format - I don't accept paper printouts nor pdfs as in both cases I'd have to do re-typing.  I gave a list of reports I need and ask for them via email or memory stick/dongle type of thing.

I've never had a potential client walk away because I won't use Sage - they never seem to be bothered at all and most are quite delighted when I show them what alternatives there are which are so much easier to use and cost a lot less!

Sage is the computerised equivalent of the old "Simplex" books. Everyone thinks they should use it and no self respecting accountant would go near it. The Simplex books were the same - they made more work than they saved and Sage is the same. Plus, Sage is far too complex for most clients and packed with features they dont need, never use, and wouldnt understand if they did use them.

We have our own Excel based programme which about half of our clients use.  The rest we simply set up so that a csv file can be extracted and imported to our spreadsheets.

but you'll find most decent-sized UK businesses are on Sage, if only because 95% of UK accountants can't be arsed to recommend something else.

So if your practice grows and you get more referrals, you'll have to get used to working with it. Just relying on the print-outs etc. is too inflexible when you ideally want to be running searches for misposts, going through sales ledger accounts to investigate weird balances and looking for missing transactions on the bank rec.

You also want to be familiar enough with Sage to be able to offer clients consultancy advice when they screw things up.  That's quite an easy source of fees.

You don't have to buy the £1,000 version. If you only have a couple of clients, just get the latest version of Sage Instant which shouldn't be more than £100 ex VAT.

I am the financial manager (not an accountant!) for an SME and I have been using Line 50 professional for a number of years as part of a multi company, multi user package. We have multiple-currency transactions and use all of the Purchase Order/Sales Order processes. I  also design many reports to get the data in the format my director wants, export to Excel as a data query and as Sage Data, and use Access to be able to drill down into the data. I sometimes get very frustrated at the continuous griping of many of the people on this website who decry the product as I believe it is lack of knowledge of exactly how the programme works and how flexible it actually can be. I have known many accountants who could not even customize the chart of accounts for their clients.

PLEASE. Give it a rest. If your clients want to use Sage then it is time you accepted it.

Instead of adjusting the client's Sage and sending it back, create a schedule of opening balance adjusting journals on Excel and ask the client to post it. If they don't know how, teach them and charge them.

I would agree with the poster who thinks Sage is unfairly slammed. I'd mostly worked with VT up until recently and hated Sage at first. Now I'm fairly good at it and really like how well it works with Excel. I'll be taking up some advanced training in the future so I can start doing Access queries.

With the man with no name. That is my understanding as well. Because technically you are using it for the purpose of that company (be it a roundabout way) and the product is only being used by one person at  any one point...

I have used Sage for decades and I have to say the old Green and Black lines version (anyone remember that?) did give me a headache after working on it for 8  hours. I would agree Sage as a company are difficult and the accountants club proved to be a waste of money for me personally. The standard issue sage structure offers scope for a broad range of possibilities but if your client doesn't need them, get rid of them, tailor the nominal to that client and delete all they don't need. It then becomes so uncomplicated for them and if they aren't confused then your life will be easier. I tend to apply my own guidleline of how I train a client so they use it in a way that gives me exactly what I want from it at year end or interim intervals. The basic posting instructions are uniform so on the whole anyone in my team will have an idea what I have set up and how I have told the client to use it.. and it works great for us. Don't get pushed into Line50 if you don't need it, it's amazing what Instant can cope with with a little encouragement.

Most of the posters on this site hate Sage Line 50, and are happy to slam the software at every given opportunity. I wonder why?

As someone who has used it every day for over 20 years, and who teaches others how to use it, I know it inside out and backwards and can fix most problems without having to phone anyone. However I can understand your reasons for disliking it.  That reason being that, you people who slam it, have not bothered to learn how to use it properly and do not understand how it works and what happens when you post something. I have lost count of the number of bookkeepers I have had to re-train to get them out of bad habits because they were taught to use it by an 'Accountant' and were taught the wrong way.

OK rant over. Sorry about that, but it annoys me when people effectivly criticise me, and anyone who uses the software, just because they do not like it. (But yes, I agree, SPS if a pain and I will not use it)

Instead of buying the software and paying for annual updates, and turning away potential clients because you do not have an in-house Sage expert, have any of you thought of sub-contracting to one?

This is something I do for several practices and it works very well. I can highlight any problems with data entry (which the practice would otherwise not spot because they do not know the day to day usage of the software from a bookkeepers point of view), and provide the practice with whatever printouts they want in whatever format they want it. I can also then re-train the clients bookkeeper, where necessary, to make sure any mistakes don't recure in the future, and where a client has made a total mess of their bookkeeping, I can rebuild all the data, from scratch if necessary, without having to re-input everything.

So there is an alternative to turning away clients and losing business! Use a local expert.

 -- Witch-Queen

I use the Sage 50 Accounts Pro Client Manager software (Bookkeepers' Club), and encourage all my clients to use Sage. Clients who already use older versions of Sage don't usually need to upgrade, and I can work on their data using the accountant link.

I have had teething problems with Sage software, which took many hours to overcome. However, I think the programme is fantastic and great to use. 

Hi

I've just noticed your post and I do bookkeeping at home and have Quickbooks 2006 which I like very much.  However I have recently taken on a new client and his previous bookkeeper used Sage 50 Accounts so I looked into buying it and found out it's about £500 plus and it's not multi company.  I just wondered how expensive the Sage 50 Accounts Pro Client Manager bookkeepers club is?
Many thanks

 I just had to join this website to add my opinion of Sage.

I loath it...  I am not accounts savy but, as a single person company with an accountant who uses it, I thought I should too.  Afterall my time struggling with Sage is cheaper than his time struggling with my shoe box of receipts.

I use Instant Accounts - the program that Sage's website says is "easy-to-use bookkeeping software that's ideal for new and small businesses. It makes managing your cash flow, customers, quotes & invoicing, VAT and suppliers quick and easy."

I doesn't however, produce a report that looks like my bank statement.  A report that includes reconciled and unreconciled transactions in date order with a running balance down one side - you know, like a bank statement!

I can have a "bank statement" of reconciled transactions, but you er, sort of, er, need to compare the unreconciled transations with your bank statment in order to reconcile it!

I CAN have that report if I upgrade to the full version, or pay £100 +VAT for them to unlock it for Instant Account (£200 +VAT if you're not a member of their Sage Cover Extra).

I can only presume that Accountants get the program for free to make their clients feel obliged to buy it!

ARGHHHH...

... totally agree, absolutely HATE Sage - the most unfriendly, rigid accounts package I've EVER seen - and the prices are totally ridiculous - how the software is so popular is totally beyond me...

At one time it was good in comparison to others but its lost its way. MArketing is good but customer treatment is bad. Its horrible and you need hours and hours of training to use it properly and who can afford that these days?

I've been through the same and a few years ago sold my soul and joined the accountants club. Sage couldn't even get that right. The promised literature "pack" never arrived despite repeated reminders. The software disks arrived but without any activation codes. The online resources weren't available because they couldn't set me up with a login. After 3 months of complaining and being passed from one department to another, I finally snapped and insisted on a refund. They insisted that I had to return the "pack" I never received and then tried to argue that they couldn't refund because I'd registered the software (despite never having received the activation code). Then they refused because I'd had the benefit of the online resources including the accountants directory (despite not being able to give me a working login). Eventually, after another 3 months, I took it to directors level and finally got a refund. That was six months of my life wasted dealing with probably the worst customer services I'd ever had to deal with. It clearly reminded me why I hadn't wanted to bother with Sage in the first place. I just wish I'd trusted my instincts.

Now if clients use Sage, I just ask for the reports to be exported to csv so I can import into excel to play around with. I have compiled an instruction sheet to give them to show them what reports I need and how to produce them. No complaints from clients about my way of dealing with it. After the accounts are prepared, I give them a list of journals. If they can't cope, then I'll go down and give them training. I've used Sage extensively over a couple of decades in practice - it was OK when it was only one of two main offerings (the other being Pegasus) but in recent years it's been well and truly overtaken by many other packages which are far better and usually cheaper. But it's not just the product, the "service you get from Sage is truly legendary as to how bad it is.

Never really had any problems using Sage including with some quite complex clients. I've found it easy to get information out and to analyse it as I wish. There are irritants - for instance, they are all on different versions so I have to remember what screen they are looking at when talking to them and I have to convert imported data. But I've found it pretty flexible and it costs me about £100/£125 per annum. I don't use Sage Cover or their support so haven't experienced their customer service.

It's not perfect and I could reel off a list of things I don't like but I can do that with any software (including other accounting software).

If the person using Sage is knowledgeable, they can usually produce good data for the accountant. The problem is that most people don't have the time, or the money, to learn it properly so they just muddle through. The end result is usually a total disaster.