Sage Practice Software

Sage Practice Software

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I purchased the full Sage Practice Suite last year. I had to pay a large 'initial fee' to purchase the software, and a smaller annual licence. The purchase was made on the strength that although the first year would be very expensive, the annual fee would give me an annual saving over my current software, and I have always been pleased with the support Sage provide, which was lacking with my previous supplier.

Shortly after the purchase a colleague (with his own small practice) informed me that his first Sage renewal had shot up in price, Sage informed him that the first year fee was an 'error' and he was still paying below 'normal price'.

The same has now happened to me. My annual licence invoices have arrived too late to give the required 3 months notice, and are much, much, more expensive than expected. I queried the cost to be told I should be paying double as the 1st year licvence fee was an 'error' but fees would be increased gradually until I was paying the 'normal' licence fee.

I paid a large initial fee, plus the cost of retraining myself and my staff, plus the cost of converting all my clients, accounts and tax data, and now have no saving whatsoever, in fact I will be paying much more than I paid for my previous software. I have made a very expensive mistake. I don't want to believe this is a tactic by Sage to get new practices on board, but can it be coincidence?

Has anyone else had the same experience?

Replies (17)

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By User deleted
21st Jul 2009 09:40

I think maybe you have been a bit naive
If you had done more resrach on AWeb you would have learned that this is Sage's modus operandi.

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By User deleted
21st Jul 2009 09:46

Deliberate?
It may be so, I may have been too trusting.

Is deliberate 'misinformation', or non-disclusure of the full facts, legal?

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By chimpsrback
21st Jul 2009 09:58

Should our own associations/institues....
Should our own associations/institues offer software FOC ?

Why dont they ?

I have had dealings with at least two companies.One the software was tripe and the other I woud not trust them with a barge pole.

May be one problem is that they are just too big and the products and service which they offer are not suitable to a small practice.

When I was negotiating with one company (amongst other things) I felt as if I was a fish in their swimming pool.One is there just to supply them with cash no questions asked.

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By pushtheriver
21st Jul 2009 11:48

Sage
I dumped Sage for exactly this some years ago. I also ceased membership of their accountants' club and never recommend their products to clients.
Currently looking for an alternative to Winforcast. Any ideas because I really need to update but hate the idea of giving them my business.

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By DMGbus
21st Jul 2009 13:57

Industry standard ?
I thought many a software house hooked punters by a low price offer which, after the horrendous costs of implementing the software means too expensive to change to something better later on and have to pay an over-priced renewal forever after ?

"caveat empor" (let the buyer beware) is the operative phrase with software purchases.

What they tell you may be lies [sorry "mistakes"] (ie. how easy the software will make life what future prices will be).

If they commit the sales-patter lies to paper by mistake, then you've got them contractually.

I'm very surprised that anyone would accept verbal promises about high initial price and lower renewal prices - how naive are we as punters ?

In any case why go for SPS and other Sage practice products ?

? Do you like partners' names transposed on partnership accounts so one partner complains that the other partner has his higher capital account balance ?

? Do you like a set of Ltd Co accounts where some directors are listed by initials and others by full names ?

? Do you like 6 failed vaildations (caused by SPS database and other Sage software failings) on a single SA800 ?

? Do you like repeated problems with partnership or partners names on partnership accounts ?

? Do you like a one-page directors report that starts with "...continued" as if its the second page of a 2 page report ?

? Do you like continued messages "family events changed" (when they haven't) every time you open a personal tax client ?

? Do like incorrect treatment of losses brought forward for sole traders ?

? Do you like an SA800 that invents 3rd partner for a 2-partner partnership ?

? Do you like an accounts note that won't add up, instead stating the syntax of the formula instead of the result of the formula ?

Sage = a horrible suite of software when you get to know it as related above.

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By chimpsrback
21st Jul 2009 15:23

Sounds like...
Sounds like one of my relatives has got in on the act !

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By User deleted
21st Jul 2009 23:11

we don't have
any of the problems DMG relates.

I suspect his problem is clerks not entering the database correctly.

I would also recomend full use of sSage support to enable the clerks to learn how to use the Sage systems properly.

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By Cath_Sage
22nd Jul 2009 15:23

Please get in touch...
Hi

Firstly, thanks to www.twitter.com/alansmoore for bringing this to my attention. I'm concerned to hear about your experience with Sage and would be grateful if you'd give me the opportunity to make sure that this is looked into.

Can you take a few minutes to email me directly with your details. My email address is [email protected]

Many thanks

Cath Sheldon
Sage (UK) Ltd

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By Peterjet
22nd Jul 2009 21:11

Sage=
We too made that gross mistake resulting in us making vast payments with no real savings. SAGE=Sic, Awful and Grossly Exaggerated!

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By alansmoore
23rd Jul 2009 13:39

Peter
Perhaps you should e-mail Catherine as well and make your feelings known......I raised this on Twitter as I thought it was fair that they should be given a right to reply (particularly if what has been claimed by their salesforce is incorrect).

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By DMGbus
10th Aug 2009 09:23

More SAGE problems
!! Cannot prepare a CT600 for FYE 30 April 2009 onwards - update is long overdue from SAGE, latest "news" is same as a month ago - update will be available "in a month".

!! Complicated routine to update accounts formats to Companies Act 2006 requirements - DON'T click on "Update" but rather click on "Edit" first to choose which update (badly written software incapable of doing this itself - another software usability typical example - illogical order - instead of clicking "Update" you have to click "Edit" first!)

!! A partnership tax return, thanks to SPS, uses a deceased individual's UTR instead of the partnership UTR

!! To choose to include or exclude a particular note in accounts a horrendously complicated series of computer programming code is necessary - instead of a simple radio button choice of 3 options here goes:-

examples of overly complex Sage Accs Production
re: Notes include or exclude from accounts

(&DA.5075=0 AND &DB.5075=0) OR &D.0050="N" OR &D.0140="M" OR &D.0140="L" OR &D.0155="Y"

and

(&D.6200="N" AND &D.6205="') OR &D.0155="Y" OR (&D.0050="Y" AND &D.0140="S")

Personally if I were in practice I wouldn't use Sage software even if it was free - it's just not written in a user-friendly way. I guess it's written for the convenience / time-saving of the Sage software writers / programme writers rather than addressing simplicity for users.

As for an anonymous supporter of Sage referring to "clerks" I am not sure why this phrase was used. Clerks infers users of limited ability. With Sage software "clerks" are unsuitable as they wouldn't recognise all the errors and problems. In fact in the cases I have quoted fully experienced, trained and qualified accountant users are the majority of cases.

Now, if other users don't know about these problems I wonder if they are aware of the problems or just accept without question the results of Sage, right or wrong.

Now how does Sage get away with this poor service / software product useablity ?

Answer = market share.

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By Cath_Sage
10th Aug 2009 13:32

get in touch
Hi DMGbus

I hope that you've seen my post on this discussion before. I really would be grateful if you'd drop me an email at my direct email address [email protected]. If you send me your details I'll be able to get our team to look into this for you.

If you've got a couple of minutes spare please get in touch with me.

Cath Sheldon
Sage (UK) Ltd

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By User deleted
19th Aug 2009 13:50

Get in touch with Sage?
Did anyone get in touch with Sage as requested by Cath Sheldon? If yes, please let us have an update.

AS

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By User deleted
19th Aug 2009 14:26

Sage response
I made the original post, and after a lot of debate with myself, I contacted Cath.

I have had an acknowledgement, but as yet, nothing further.

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By Cath_Sage
19th Aug 2009 15:59

Sage contact
Hi

I’m sorry that progress hasn’t been as quick as either of us would have liked. My colleague in the Customer Experience team has been unwell and this has delayed him contacting you.

I do know that it is currently being followed up, and they will be in touch with you shortly.

Once again, my apologies for the delay.

Cath Sheldon
Sage (UK) Ltd

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By User deleted
20th Aug 2009 12:20

Sage response
Sarah Hartley (Sage) has contacted me and requested more information. This has been provided.

I will keep you informed of progress.

SM

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By User deleted
27th Aug 2009 10:20

Latest response from Sage
Over the last few days I have received information from Sage, culminating yesterday with information regarding expected fees up to 2012.

I will relate this information, and if I have misunderstood in any way I am sure Sage will post a correction here.

Sage inform me that annual fees are based upon ‘expected revenue’ from their software, and therefore the annual fees will vary from practice to practice (not based upon no of users/clients alone, as I was informed that other factors are also taken into account).

The original low quotation has now been explained as a ‘special offer’ tailored to beat CCH annual fees (the software I used previously), but I wasn’t informed of the artificially low fees at the time, and I expected any increase in fees to be reasonable (I am either too trusting or just plain stupid!!). Looking at other posts on here, and knowing that a colleague received similar treatment, it appears mine is not a unique case, so there are plenty of other ‘thickies’ out there to keep me company.

I have been given advance warning of the annual fees that will apply in years 2010 to 2012, although the Sage representative also states that these fees are valid for 30 days only. The increases are being applied progressively, until I am paying the 'correct' fees in year 2012, so I am ‘benefitting’ from reductions until then.

In 2012 (if the quoted fees do not change) I will be paying a 91% increase compared to the initial (accepted) quote given in Aug 2008, even though the 2012 fees are based upon 2 fewer ‘users’ and lower client numbers. I have been given no indication of what the fees would be if I increased the no. of users, or clients back to the original quote.

Personally, I like the software (most, but not all, of it!), and especially appreciate the support available, but a great deal of trust has been lost. I paid a large initial fee (higher than the annual licence fee), plus the additional costs of purchasing Sage Document Management, and the associated costs of retraining, and conversion of data, which means that I am a loser either way. I either pay these extraordinary increases in fees, or write off several thousand pounds (that I simply cannot afford to lose) and start again with other software, and hope they are more trustworthy than Sage when it comes to being open & honest about fees.

What I find most worrying is the fact that there is no clarity in the pricing structure, and therefore the cost cannot be predicted (or budgeted for), or compared against similar practices or similar software, so I feel I am totally at the mercy of Sage UK. This experience will also make me very wary of trusting other practice software providers.

Other buyers, be aware of these pitfalls so that you can make a fully informed decision!

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