state pension and self assessment

state pension and self assessment

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I have an elderly client who has just been informed she is now going to be asked to complete Tax Returns. Her only income is state pension well below the personal allowances. Having phoned HMRC they say that the only way they can find out the amount of state pension is if she is put within Self Assessment. This seems very unfair on the elderly with little income. As we all know, elderly clients worry, and although she is more than happy to pay my fees for completion of a Tax Return it is a completely unncessary expenses when I know there will be no tax to pay.
Why can't the Revenue find out details of state pension without going through Self Assessment? They always seem to know the details when issuing PAYE coding notices if there are other sources of income, so why can't they find out in this case?
Sorry, just venting my anger at this complete waste of goverment resources!

Sara

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By User deleted
16th Oct 2008 10:39

Now removed from SA
For info, I've now spoken to someone else at HMRC who agree that my client should not be within Self Assessment and her record has been closed. I complained the the Agent Priority line had originally given me different advice but the person I spoke to didn't seem too bothered!

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By User deleted
10th Oct 2008 12:07

Old Spot
Fair points Clint, but the next letter may not happen and this pensioner doesn't need an R40 and if they did, entering an onerous penalty regime is a high price to pay for the priviledge of maybe getting a quicker refund.

SA is likely to generate more worry and unecessary fees. It looks like the Revenue have taken the wrong course and we shouldn't pander to that but seek to improve the service pensioners receive.

HMRC should send a complimentary Old Spot by way of apology.

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By User deleted
14th Oct 2008 09:46

Thanks for your comments
Thank you for all the comments, at least I'm not the only one who thinks this is a ridiculous situation!
For information, it was the Agents Priority Line I spoke to which was why I was even more angry, and no Notice to File has yet been issued so I have been informed, which was why I was trying to get her out of SA before she gets put in.
I will try phoning again and speak to someone else, and if that fails I will write.

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By Paula Sparrow
10th Oct 2008 13:51

Pensions Service provides information to HMRC
My understanding is that the Pensions Service notifies HMRC of the pensions receivable, so my guess is that whoever you spoke to at the Revenue did not know what they were talking about.

The Revenue don't usually have any problem with asking for that sort of information - usually on a P161.

Try ringing the agents priority line. You usually get a better standard of response with them and if you still can't get a sensible answer ask to speak to a supervisor. This situation just seems to be ridiculous!

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By AnonymousUser
10th Oct 2008 08:06

What Tim Ryan said
In addition, I suspect that you will find that if the pensioner actually completes one tax return then the next letter will be one saying that no further tax returns will be required. If a notice to file has already been issued, even if inappropriately, then this looks like the route to follow. It would be a good idea to file it early, well before the filing deadline, because I have a suspicion that the HMRC computer generates the list of next year's notices to file before the expiry of the filing date of the previous year, and in the absence of the previous year's filed return at that time the pensioner will be re-selected by default.

There can be benefits to having completed just one SA tax return. The pensioner will then have been issued with a UTR. Even if the account then falls dormant, you could in a future year use that UTR to file a repayment claim online should one ever become appropriate, which would then be processed a heck of a lot faster than an R40. Perhaps by then you will be able to file an R40 online. Good Lord, is that a Gloucester Old Spot I see drifting by my window?

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By User deleted
10th Oct 2008 02:30

Pension Review form
I can't see that this is the correct advice from the Revenue.

Write in and tell them the figure but you're right not to enter the SA system willingly. Suggest to them a Pension Review form might be more appropriate P161 or P810.

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