Taxation petition

Taxation petition

Didn't find your answer?

I don't understand why it isn't mentioned on this site. The web address for the petition is:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/hmrc-staffcuts/

Stuart Jones

Replies (8)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By AnonymousUser
04th Dec 2007 15:26

But the cuts are savage...
People seem to have been cut in advance of the computer systems working properly.

Experienced people who can give intelligent answers to specific questions have been cut (or have just gone in exasperation).

The Treasury has been mindlessly cutting for the sake of cutting, without taking the global costs of those cuts in account.

And so on...

Thanks (0)
avatar
By JSJ54
04th Dec 2007 11:33

I would be the first to agree with you Steven
but the petition does talk about "the loss of experienced staff [which] has surely contributed to the high-profile mistakes made by the department recently".

As practitioners surely we can see the wood for the trees!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AnonymousUser
04th Dec 2007 11:03

Well, of course ....
employing more people always leads to better service levels!

Are we to think that the billions spent on computer systems lead to no efficiency savings?

Were there no people actively employed in checking the millions of paper forms submitted no processed on line?

Would anyone consider the CSA to be a great loss?

Sad for the 12500 people losing their jobs but the days when the public sector could afford to employ hundreds or thousands are long gone I'm afraid.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
04th Dec 2007 16:35

Lack of mention
The reason that I have not mentioned it here is that is not clear that these are the real numbers of job cuts, and there is a lot more to it than just the number of civil service posts in one department.

The Treasury Public Accounts Committee, have some concern over HMRC's figures and because the department is redeploying staff to the front line, it appears that this number iof job cuts actually managed is uncertain.

One job cut that we thought had gone through, turns out not to have done so: previous HMRC chairman, Paul Gray has bounced back again, less than 2 weeks after resigning from one government department he is now back in full-time employment.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Paula Sparrow
04th Dec 2007 20:05

Computers vs humans
Surely the point is that the computers can process Returns, calculate liablilities, interest, penalties, etc far more efficiently than humans, but when it comes to sorting out a processing error, you need a human. The Revenue seem to have retained the level of staff who used to process the Returns, etc, but got rid of the staff who used to sort out the [***] ups....

As somebody much cleverer than me said - to err is human, but it takes a computer to really foul up!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
05th Dec 2007 08:05

Wrong Direction?
It's my belief that the dopiest staff are deliberately deployed on the alleged "helplines"; thus guaranteeing a steady stream of customers, ie the naive and gullible, for the brighter minds engaged in enforcing taxation law upon us.

I've just spent a fruitless hour trying to establish the status of an IT bod who actually wants employee status (much to the horror of my client, his unwitting "employer"). Aside from a lack of commercial understanding ("If you don't give him his own way, he might mess up your computer system" - or maybe lose a vital disk or two?), the various "help" people were blank-spotted on "zero hour" and casual employment contracts ("there's no longer such a thing as a casual employee" - well just a fruit-pickin' moment!); and equally at sea over their status advice ("You need to talk to an employment solicitor" - fine, thanks for your decision ).

In fairness, these helplines were probably confused by an IT bod arguing for employee status ("he probably wants a mix of self-employed and employed income to lower his tax bill" - sure, or perhaps he would just like paid holidays, sick pay, mileage expenses, paid breaks, guaranteed work, and full employment rights!).

Charming fellows all, but you can see why the Revenue might do without them.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AnonymousUser
05th Dec 2007 09:43

Job cuts before savings
Re Brian's comments below, this seems to have been normal practice in the Revenue (and I expect every other government dept it applies to) as long as I can remember. There is presumably pressure to justify the expense of the systems. It also probably reflects even after 20 years of using computers in local offices a lack of knowledge on the part of management about using IT systems effectively (hence why Paula's comment is also spot on ).

Thanks (0)
Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
05th Dec 2007 23:19

Count me in
There is no doubt from recent experience of dealing with HMRC that their "customer service" is going backwards.

When I finally managed to get through on a help line recently I was given a sincere apology and then provided with all the help I needed. I shan't go into details but the officer described to me the working arrangements, or lack of them, in her office and how they didn't know which way to turn in having to handle the mountains of queries with only a handful of people. She ended up asking (almost begging) me to write a complaint as she felt that was the only way to stop the outflow of experienced people and the breaking up of teams.

These people are not the enemy, they play a necessary part in keeping an overly complicated tax system going....some may say they are more nessary than other parts of it?

Thanks (0)