For those who are paperless already ...

For those who are paperless already ...

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What is the best streamlined (and paperless) solution to get from client reviewing accounts & returns to everything filed at HMRC/CH. I use PTP tax & VT accounts (so iXRBL sorted) but currently I manually file at Companies House and with CT600's & statutory accounts. How does the 'signature' work under iXBRL and what evidence do you collect to show a client has approved your submission?

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By gerawson
11th Feb 2011 14:37

re streamlined

We use absolute, it prints an authorisation form for electronic submission which we get client to sign. We also get client to sign a copy of the accounts. When filing no requirement for a signature, obviously HMRC trust us!!.

I know it's not quite paperless but can't see how we can cut down further whilst still having proof of agreement.

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By User deleted
11th Feb 2011 15:26

Scans & emails

For approval of tax returns (having emailed a pdf to the client) I get them to email me their approval quoting the IR mark (I use Taxcalc). No paper output required.

Accounts - I either email a pdf copy that they can print out, sign and scan & email back to me or send a hard copy for their signature that I scan in at this end. Not entirely paperless I admit but some clients still want hard copies. Co House I tend to file online using their software so no signature required but I'm looking to file directly from accounts software in due course (once I find some software that will do everything I want!).

Don't know how signatures work under iXBRL but I'm guessing that if you're filing that way no actual signature is required.

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Universe
By SteveOH
11th Feb 2011 15:28

Have a look at Echosign

Echosign.com

I was put onto this by Adrian Pearson. It's a way of the client adding an electronic signature to any document. I use it all the time now.

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By Steve Holloway
11th Feb 2011 15:54

Echosign - am I being dim?!?!?

.... if the computer generates a made up signature ... how does that signify someone signing a document?

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By Ken Howard
11th Feb 2011 16:55

Echosign OK but how do you prove the signatory approved it?

I've looked at Echosign a couple of times, but can't find a way to satisfy myself (and regulators) that it is the signatory who is approving it.  All I see is that it confirms that "someone" with access to the email address has pressed the "approve" button which to me isn't really good enough.

For a start, it could be someone else using the person's computer, i.e. spouse, employee, etc.,  or someone else intercepting the person's email by using their login details.

Another problem for me is if they are using a generic email address such as hotmail or googlemail or bt internet etc - can you ever be 100% certain that it is the real person using such an easily obtainable email address?  I'd be fairly happy with an email coming from a [email protected] as at least it's from a recognised domain name attributable to the client, but still doesn't prove it's not someone else.

The reason I may come across as paranoid is that recently I very nearly got conned into giving personal information to someone who wasn't entitled to it.  To cut a long story short, I got an email which came from [email protected] asking for PDF copies of his accounts for last three years, and I very nearly sent them - it was only because I noticed the "hotmail" part of the email reply address which luckily I found odd because the client has a particularly long domain name which he usually used.  Quick phone call to client discovered that he'd not asked for his accounts pdfs at all.  We concluded that maybe an employee or competitor was fishing for information.  How close did I come to breaching confidentiality - I certainly keep a watch for that kind of thing now.

I'd prefer digital signatures, but it would be difficult to persuade the older and/or less computer literate clients to register and create digital signatures etc - I know it's easy when you know what you're doing, but a lot of people would still need a lot of help and guidance to walk them through the process.

 

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Universe
By SteveOH
11th Feb 2011 18:43

Echosign - maybe it's me being dim

@ Steve Holloway

I take your point completely and I did as much research as I could before signing up to Echosign. Apparently it does stand up in the UK Courts. But I would be interested in hearing otherwise.

I use it for the e-signing of engagement letters, Tax Returns and Accounts. I would have already sent the client a copy of the Accounts and Tax Return to a secure area on my website for their approval. When they let me know that they are happy then I send them an email to let them know that the documents are being sent to that email address for e-signature.

As nearly all my clients are either sole traders or owner managed companies, I hope that I have all bases covered.

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By chatman
12th Feb 2011 04:14

Not convinced by Echosign

After getting unsatisfactory replies on another AWeb thread about digital signatures and Echosign, I asked Echosign how I would prove to a court that a document had been digitally signed using their service. I must admit I did not reallyunderstand the answer, which talked about a "court-appointed asset" so I never used the service.

If I cannot use it to prove to a court that a document has been signed, what good is it to me?

I use the same methods as Flash Gordon, above.

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By petersaxton
12th Feb 2011 17:34

Email

I email whatever I want a client to agree to and ask them to email me back their agreement.

I only get involved in signatures if people don't use email or prefer to come to my office.

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By chatman
12th Feb 2011 17:48

Here's the thread I referred to about Echosign

 https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/anyone-using-echosign

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