Unprofessional Accountant behaviour

Unprofessional Accountant behaviour

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Advice.

My accounts have been filed with my accountant every year on time. As far as I was aware at the time they were filed or being filed. On occaision I received the odd letter from companies house which I gave to the accountant and they said ok all sorted. Then I started getting more, talk of striking off and solicitors, turns out I owe over £3000 in companies house late filings (which the accountant is appealing(how long should that take and is it likely he could appeal?)- had a Lewis collection letter for £1500 last week) and the tax man turns up wanting £30k. There was no chance I owed anything like that. Accountant said they are sorting it and I paid tax man enough, to buy time. Tax man is not happy with accountant as he had discussed with them prior to this and they'd promised him everything in order. The same day I paid a cheque for tax through the accountant for personal Tax. Now another tax man is chasing this, because it hasn't been paid (this was two weeks ago). I have the cheque stub but the cheque hasn't left my account I checked today- I can phone them and pay by debit card today now I know.

I'm in an industry under threat of increased surveillance, I don't knowingly do anything wrong but I don't need the complexities in time, stress etc of an investigation especially currently.

Two questions.

Can I take out insurance ie through FSB or separately to cover me against an investigation? the accounts are all now filed at CH and this years will be completed in the next few days. So will it cover me, because they have exclusions for late accounts? these were late but aren't now?

I have sent a letter outlining the sequence of events that occured and my instructions and conversations and copies of emails sent over the years to my accountant. has he been negligent and how would I make a claim?

My first intention is to deduct any penalties from any charges the accountant may levy on me for work done. What else can I do?

Please some guidance, I am not getting much sleep.

Replies (19)

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By bernard michael bayly
01st Apr 2011 09:00

Accountant errors

Do you know if he or his firm are members of an accounting body eg Chartered or Chartered Certified. It should say on his letterhead if he is regulated

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By jules25
01st Apr 2011 09:16

unsure on status

The letterhead simply says Accountants and auditors.

who do I check with?

I have spoken to an insurer and insurance is not an option due to the accounts being filed late.

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By Trevor Scott
01st Apr 2011 09:31

Dear Jules

I'm not suggesting you're dishonest but the information you have provided is incomplete and doesn't quite add up as you suggest. See a Chartered accountant ... through ICEAW (not certified accountant or otherwise) immediately with all the paperwork you have, they will give you a straight story.

http://www.icaewfirms.co.uk/

I can tell you know, that blaming the old accountant for everything is an often used excuse but isn't believable when the person concerned had warning after warning but ignorred them.

What part of the country are you in? Someone on here may be prepared to see you today!

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By cparker87
01st Apr 2011 09:33

Auditors

Suggests he is with a registered body.

 

He may sign his name as "ACA" (ICAEW) or "ACCA" and this would also give you some idea where to direct the complaint.

 

Check the website and footer of letterheads too.

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By jules25
01st Apr 2011 09:49

Responsibilities accepted

I accept I have overal responsibilities here, in mitigation I work long hours and have mountains of paperwork to do along with everything else. I can't go further into this in an open forum but if I have it in writing and verbally, matters have been attended to I, accepted it had been done. It was only this year that i received several letters which caused me to believe things were not as they appeared and I looked into it further and things have been resolved ie accounts brought up to date with CH and taxes paid butthere remains penalties and it is the knock on consequences that Iam concerned about.

I don't know where the Dishonesty comes from, I have no need nor had need to lie, I may have been somewhat naive.

 

At the bottom of the Letter it has ATII can't find that but have been checking the following no luck yet

Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA)
Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA)
Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA)
Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales (ICAEW)

Faculty of Actuaries
Institute of Actuaries

 

 

Most of the paperwork is still at the accountants, I was thinking that despite not being enamoured with the service if I stuck with them to resolve things in anything potentially forthcoming I could dispute costs with any penalties. But I am not adverse to going to another chartered firm, in case there are any problems they could find it and deal with it.

What chance is there of CH letting late filing apeals through? I was told that they would go away now that they have been filed is that true?

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By a_m
01st Apr 2011 10:00

Why not a Chartered Certified Firm Trevor Scott.....

Hi Trevor Scott

Hope you dont mind, but what is wrong with a Chartered Certified firm?

Regards

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By User deleted
01st Apr 2011 10:10

ATII refers to the pre chartered days of 'The Chartered Institute of Taxation'.  Anyone admitted after 1 January 2003 must use the letters CTA and not ATII.

If your accountant is using the letters ATII he/she should be registered with The Chartered Institute of Taxation.  The website is

http://www.tax.org.uk/

Hope this helps

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By jules25
01st Apr 2011 10:16

not listed

Thanks Chris

I can't find him on there either.

More bad news.

Spoken to Companies house, no appeal has been received by letter fax or post. They have now put a temporary 30day stop on any action for me. So again the accountant has lied to me I passed him the debt collector letter this week and  spoke to them they said it had been dealt with.

I really don't know what to do for the best.

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
01st Apr 2011 11:10

New Accountant NOW

Jules,

Appoint a new accountant NOW. Someone qualified and established, and someone local you can go and see (normally I don't think it matters where in the country an accountant is, but as you've had problems I think being able to go to an established office and talk to someone will give you reassurance and confidence).

I have sadly had a lot of experience with an accountant like this and the only way you can start extricating yourself from this mess is to appoint someone new who can help you through it.

If it's similar to what I experienced, then the old accountant can't/won't be able to help you.

If it's a limited company, and it's racked up lots of fines and penalties, then possibly phoenixing the company might be an option, but this needs careful thought and planning and professional advice. And take advice before you pay out any more money to HMRC/CoHo.

Best of luck,

M

 

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By Trevor Scott
01st Apr 2011 11:23

I didn’t suggest there was anything wrong with ACCA.
Why not a Chartered Certified Firm Trevor Scott.....Hi Trevor ScottHope you dont mind, but what is wrong with a Chartered Certified firm?Regards The person concerned, if genuine and if this isn’t another April fools, already has a very poor opinion of the profession …. to the point of probably being distrustful of everyone. There are lots of professional bodies and people claiming to be one thing or another, the validity of them is a nightmare maze to most of the public, who just want a simple and clear answer….such as being referred to one kind of established professional accountant …ICAEW is the leading accountancy body in the UK with the highest recognised standards, and while not guaranteed such in each instance, resulting in the generally highest standard of professional advice on accounting/practice matters. In my opinion it is the easiest recommendation for someone seeking clear help.Further:      I would love there to be one legally recognised accountancy qualification and professional body in this country, but of course many wouldn’t like that unless everyone sat the same exams and existing accountants were of the same minimum training/examination standards.We all know that all accountancy bodies do not have the same standards.I always give a general recommendation of ICAEW’s for practice matters, CIMA’s for management etc, CIOT’s for tax advice. I never generally recommend ACCA, but in the odd instance I come across one that is very good then I will specifically recommend them for something.

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By steveoneill
01st Apr 2011 11:26

Not the place to pass judgement

A few quick thoughts here, firstly from the original poster

“I looked into it further and things have been resolved ie accounts brought up to date with CH and taxes paid”.Firstly, the poster must have agreed the accounts at some stage with the accountants, before submission, therefore there appears to be contact still, the poster has paid taxes due, therefore agreed amounts, and secondly“My accounts have been filed with my accountant every year on time”You do not file at the accountants; you file with both HMRC and CH before set dates, the accountant will have to prepare, resolve issues and get approval before any submission. This does sound like a dispute arising from penalties for late filing, discovering the reason for it is very hard here, we have all been in the situation where clients expect miracles for us to bail them out because they have been too busy to get the all the required information in a timely manner.At the end of the day it is the directors’ responsibility to ensure filing within deadline. Any appeal against the penalties in this instance, based upon what has been said here, will ultimately fail at CH and will be enforceable. Investigations usually having nothing to do with late filing, but rather the content of the accounts, information received and possibly the nature of the trade, amongst other things, the poster states “I'm in an industry under threat of increased surveillance.” Perhaps this has more to do with things.This is not the place to judge conduct of an accountant, if the poster feels they have discharged all their duties carefully and in a timely manner then see the accountant and discuss with him, not us, if you then feel you have a case ask him for his professional body who you can complain to or details of his Pii Insurance as you intend to make a claim.   

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By User deleted
01st Apr 2011 12:02

Time for a change

I agree with Monsoon I would go and see another accountant with whatever paperwork you have for a second opinion.  Try contacting a firm local to you, whether that be an ACA or ACCA practice, to get their opinion on this, almost all firms these days offer a free initial meeting so it shouldn't cost you for a quick chat.

In meantime speak to HMRC directly and explan you are having diffculty with your accountant and you are looking to appoint a new adviser.  Hopefully if you get a reasonable person on the other end of the phone they will suspend collection etc for a short period of time.

If you post which area of the country you are in then I am sure someone on here who is local to you will only be too happy to help.

Chris

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By jules25
01st Apr 2011 12:05

A fool maybe but -No April Fool unfortunately

“I looked into it further and things have been resolved ie accounts brought up to date with CH and taxes paid”.Firstly, the poster must have agreed the accounts at some stage with the accountants, before submission, therefore there appears to be contact still, the poster has paid taxes due, therefore agreed amounts, and secondly“My accounts have been filed with my accountant every year on time”You do not file at the accountants; you file with both HMRC and CH before set dates, the accountant will have to prepare, resolve issues and get approval before any submission.

Every Year I hand over all my accounts and invoices all filed etc, maybe my terminology is wrong but I give them then to my accountant to go through them and draw up what ever it is that they do. I have only ever signed one set of accounts that was year one. I haven't said I am not in contact, I've been trying to sort this out with the exisiting firm and the relevant bodies because I felt at the time that it was the quickest option as they have all the documents.

This does sound like a dispute arising from penalties for late filing, discovering the reason for it is very hard here, we have all been in the situation where clients expect miracles for us to bail them out because they have been too busy to get the all the required information in a timely manner.At the end of the day it is the directors’ responsibility to ensure filing within deadline.

Yes I accept that it is my responsibility ultimately but I had been assured this had been done and filed by the accountants, it is what happened in the first year. I don't expect a bail out but I do expect a job to be done if instructed and promised that it has and had been. As demonstrated by the recent assertion that an appeal at CH had been lodged and I have checked and it hasn't.

Any appeal against the penalties in this instance, based upon what has been said here, will ultimately fail at CH and will be enforceable.

That is my understanding of the situation yet they continue to assert that they will resolve it.

“I'm in an industry under threat of increased surveillance.” Perhaps this has more to do with things.

I am not under investigation but I am concerend that I am at greater risk. particularly as yes certain professions, dentists, electricians, plumbers etc are in the news. I am concerned that on top of the late fees from CH and for the tax paid late that were deferred until this accounting year for any carry back will add to those fees. If they decide to investigate at some point in the future I can expect more cost and I can't insure against this because the accounts were filed late.

This is not the place to judge conduct of an accountant, if the poster feels they have discharged all their duties carefully and in a timely manner then see the accountant and discuss with him, not us, if you then feel you have a case ask him for his professional body who you can complain to or details of his Pii Insurance as you intend to make a claim.  

I'm not looking to Judge per se I am looking at what to do for the best. The accountant isn't registered anywhere and the registration listed is lapsed so there is no one to go through. If I take four years of accounts to another accountant what is that going to cost me, do I have the kind of money required, am I any worse off in claiming against this company going elsewhere or staying with them. My books have been done, it's not necessarily that they ahve been done rightly or wrongly I dot know that, it's simply the adminstration of iling them and carrying out the duties I expected of them hasn't been done.

I don't understand why I shouldn't seek an opinion on here, and clearly I have discussed with him but the information I am told is not now holding any water. I don't understand why you have taken this in a personal affront against you either.

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
01st Apr 2011 12:20

To those who are taking the accountant's side (in part)

I know there are two sides to every story but, believe me, accountants as described in the OP do exist. Yes, the client has some level of responsibility, but if the accountant has said it's under control, the client quite naturally trusts them that they are telling the truth. If it later transpires that is not the case, that is not the client's fault.

And, while we are on the subject of who to turn to next, ACCA, ACA and AAT please :)

Jules - don't get sucked into a debate on here, but take the good advice that's been given and go and get a new accountant.

If you want a free chat, I'm happy to call you this weekend. I'm not touting for business (I've already recommended you see someone local) but having dealt with similar situations I'd be happy to chat through your options, feel free to PM me your number and a convenient time to call.

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By Trevor Scott
01st Apr 2011 12:21

Jules

The sooner you let everyone know which area of the country you're located then the sooner someone can help you, possibly even today! 

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By jules25
01st Apr 2011 12:36

Pm I would like to discuss options.

In the region of EX1-17 Pm me if you can talk things through and I'll call you.

I'm agreed I need to find an alternative accountant but that has also been a concern, how do I know accreditation or not that they are any better, price is no determinator that's for certain. And i'm also thinking about the timings of this all for some reasons I can't discuss in the open.

Many thanks for all the replies even the unsupportive ones, there's good and bad and simply plain lousy in all professions mine included, I don't think the current Accountants firm is deliberately bad but definately lousy.

 

 

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
01st Apr 2011 12:42

Your account isn't set up to receive PMs

Jules you need to edit your account settings so we can PM you :)

You're a bit of a trek from me, but I'm happy to talk through on the phone - in this situation I think you'd be well advised to get a few opinions anyway. Different accountants wil lhave different views and differing approaches.

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By jules25
01st Apr 2011 12:53

Thanks

Hmm I have enabled everything I can find in the settings not sure why I can't get your PMs?

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
01st Apr 2011 12:58

.

It's working now, your PMs are enabled :)

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