Hi all
Most of you will be aware that some conversations in Any Answers have gone a little awry recently. We have been watching these closely and I’ve been moderating when necessary.
However, we thought it would be prudent to remind you of some of the basic principles we ask our members to abide by:
• Please stay on topic.
• Please do not post personal comments towards other members that could be interpreted as offensive or inflammatory. These will not be tolerated and will be moderated/deleted.
• If you feel provoked by what you consider to be a personal comment, please try not to respond. Please contact the moderators who will deal with this.
• Please also alert the moderator to anything you find offensive or abusive. We will deal with it in accordance with the Ts&Cs. To alert the moderator send a private message including the URL to the thread and the title, author and time/date stamp of the post in question. Please also include your reasons for requesting its removal. We are currently planning an upgrade of the site, and there will be a dedicated ‘report post’ function which will simplify the reporting process.
• Please consider the intonation of your postings when you write them and understand that interpretation of the written word can be subjective. You could offend someone without meaning to if they misinterpret your tone, so be mindful of this before you click ‘submit’.
• Please avoid discussing political, religious, racial or other such emotive topics which you could sensibly predict will provoke and offend other members.
• When we remove a post on the site, or an entire thread, we will endeavour to explain why, both to the community and to the individual although we may not have the time to contact the member directly through private message.
We do not want to run a forum where member confrontations are frequent. We understand that our membership is a rich assembly of different people with varying cultures, opinions and beliefs, but please be considerate and respectful of other members.
If arguments and confrontations continue we may have to consider more stringent moderation rules. This would be a shame and we absolutely do not want to damage the spirit of Any Answers which is, to most, a really valuable forum.
Whilst we don’t mind discussions on a variety of topics, if it becomes too irrelevant to professional topics, please find an alternative and more appropriate forum on the web.
All our moderation is carefully considered and thought-through and aims to be fair and balanced. If you have a query or complaint about moderation please contact us privately to discuss the matter and do not publish your complaint on Aweb as this is likely to further fuel any pre-existing arguments and difficulties.
We are committed to protecting our members and our community, and any member who acts against the spirit of the community will be asked to leave.
If you have any questions please feel free to send us a message and we’ll be happy to help.
Becky Midgley, community manager, [email protected]
Jenny Ogden, head of community, [email protected]
Many thanks
Replies (43)
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Moderation contact
Thanks Becky.
If anyone needs to contact me about moderation issues please feel free.
Moderation is always going to be required for some postings
As we are all human, there are always going to be some people who don't think that they are being sexist/racist etcetera when many others would disagree. There have been several instances in the past of petty vindictiveness where the participants involved in this "game" either overlooked the fact that it's a turnoff to most other members or didn't understand that this behaviour is unacceptable.
So we do need regular and firm moderation.
I have occasionally felt that unacceptable postings were not moderated quickly enough in the past thus leading others to think it was OK to launch into the fray. Because I've never had to moderate anything myself it could be that I am not being realistic, but I think we need firmer action to deal with people who regularly "misbehave".
So all power to your elbow.
Firm action definitely required!
I agree with Moonbeam - although, of course, the most offensive/aggresive/inflammatory posts seem to be posted outside office hours (A coincidence? I think not) thus making it impossible to moderate in a timely fashion.
My main reason for wanting faster moderation is that reading them takes up too much of my time! They are strangely compelling (like rubber necking at a car crash) - if only to see how offensive and unhinged the remarks will get before they get caught and sent to the naughty step!
Good luck with it, Becky. Keep up the good work.
Cathy
Relevance
[***], I'm going to have to find a way of linking Enid Blyton to accountancy now!
Oh well, it needed to be done (moderation that is!) so fingers crossed that it does the trick :)
Surprised
I'm actually surprised (but pleased) that you didn't go further with these new rules. I thought possibly you would revert to a system where comments are only posted once reviewed (which would be horrid). Or that a "3 strikes and you're out" policy might be adopted (which would be alright).
Enid Blyton: tax issues
Enid Blyton was married, had two children, divorced and re-married. Undoubtedly there would have been tax implications . . .
David
Try it before you buy it?
Nothing is certain in life ... except death & taxes (I got the relevance in - lol).
I am sure that if the new policy works we will all be happier. If it doesn't work as well as expected then it's back to the drawing board and something new comes along. With perseverance there are very few problems that cannot be resolved.
@ David
You're a star!
And I agree with Shirley - nothing is unsurmountable if you have the will.
I don't see...
... how anyone could put anything rude or inflamatory now we have seen how beautiful our moderators are!
But I'm a duck, what do I know.
Please stay on topic? Nay, nay and thrice nay.
I agree with everything in Becky's post except her very first point. I love the way that posts can sometimes fly off at a tangent. Answers to an OP can normally be given in the first 1/2 a dozen or so replies. And then, all of a sudden, Flash Gordan will mention Enid Blyton and the Secret Seven and I am transported back to my primary school days; waiting for the next in the series to be available at the local library.
Accountancy and Tax can be pretty boring sometimes and I would hate it if the moderators came down strictly on any of us who strayed off topic.
Humblest of apologies
I crave your forgiveness Becky for my poor use of the Queen's English - I'd beg on my knees but might struggle to reach the keyboard so I'm sitting down but the sincerity is real (despite not necessarily sounding so!)
Re Steve's post on Enid Blyton et al (I'm obviously a bad influence!) - maybe if we find ourselves getting sidetracked we just need to remember (or be reminded gently) to start our own thread? (Though I'm glad I'm starting a (mini) Enid craze again - I had a lump in throat moment last night when they left Malory Towers for the last time!)
Anyone can get around anything if they have a will to do so ....
Really it is down to the goodwill of the community
@[email protected] - don't really think office hours is an issue; surely it is simply when people have time to look at the site & not such a calculated approach
@ thisistibi - 3 strikes is un-enforceable, even if Aweb pulls the users login. All they do is access with another 'throw away' hotmail/yahoo email and hide their IP address; so this is meaningless
@3569787 - how would this work when participants could delete their existing comment in a thread and write another to keep within the 3 limit. Also would make the thread dis-jointed
Yes a 'report abuse' button would allow simple notification to Aweb and save some time trawling posts
@JC
I should like to think so JC - but, given that some of the posters seem to be posting all day as well but the 'out of control' postings seem to occur rather frequently late Friday and over the weekend, maybe not. Or perhaps it is just that Becky isn't available at that time to nip them in the bud ans so they get increasingly more in need of moderation!
Cathy
Spirit
I think Becky's comment that we should stay within ' the spirit of the AWeb community' is the point that really counts.
I may be wrong, but I doubt that posts will be deleted or moderated just because someone mentions Enid Blyton (for example), providing it does not take over a thread and become a heated 'debate'. I also enjoy the oddball questions and the fooling around that goes on at times and it does lift my spirit and make me laugh.
Oh Flash.....
Well now I fancy lashings of ginger beer, eggs fresh from the farm and some warm milk.
Playground
With swings and a slide and one of those horses that has several seats on and goes backwards and forwards?!
A playground sounds good to me then we can talk about ginger beer and freshly baked bread and midnight feasts to our (my) heart's content and leave the grown-ups to their work :)
I'm not so sure
It is the sheer unexpectedness of the Enid Blyton type comments that are part of the fun. However, I can see that the 'grown ups' may find them annoying. I'm probably in my third (or fourth) childhood by now so maybe I'll never grow up!
.
How about a playground? - a group set up for off-topic ramblings where you could begin your own thread and carry on your Enid etc chats?
Posted by Becky Midgley on Wed, 18/05/2011 - 15:16
Which would probably attract more posts that the actual "any questions". If "any questions" becomes purely a place for those seeking free professional advice I suspect most questions will go unanswered. Surely the purpose is to enable professionals to discuss issues which affect them (be it the budget, latest employment law, the continuing foul ups by HMRC, or what capital allowances can be claimed for the office cat). I doubt anyone logs on purely out of an altruistic wish to give free professional advice to people who could actually find the answers to their questions themselves if they read the relevent tax manuals.
Purpose
"Which would probably attract more posts that the actual "any questions". If "any questions" becomes purely a place for those seeking free professional advice I suspect most questions will go unanswered. Surely the purpose is to enable professionals to discuss issues which affect them (be it the budget, latest employment law, the continuing foul ups by HMRC, or what capital allowances can be claimed for the office cat). I doubt anyone logs on purely out of an altruistic wish to give free professional advice to people who could actually find the answers to their questions themselves if they read the relevent tax manuals."
I would have thought "Any Questions" is exactly that - a place where people can ask a technical question of the accountancy and tax community. I don't exactly agree with handing out free advice to would-be clients but I see nothing wrong in providing a quick answer on a technical point, or sharing technical knowledge with fellow professionals. Sometimes the answer isn't always in the manuals or reference materials and it is often useful to tap into others' experiences.
As for discussing issues (as opposed to asking questions), there are always the Discussion Groups - the key is in the name.
Very disappointed
[removed by mod - has been construed as targeting an individual member]
What we have is a tidied up moderation policy and a plea for everyone to behave. The latter has been tried countless times before and generally falls on deaf ears. I give it a week at most before Becky is putting up posts to explain why threads have been taken down and appealing for calm. ------- Kind regards Andy
I've often said
that an 'off topic' area would be great, but that is mostly because most of my posts are lighthearted or foolhardy (and I have been met with fierce opposition each time).
I would like to see another board however, where we can air the silliness necessary to survive in tax/accountancy. And perhaps another which is purely for inter-agent discussion, so no 'free advice' will ever have to be given (to the public at least :) )
@Andy
"If you have a query or complaint about moderation please contact us privately to discuss the matter and do not publish your complaint on Aweb as this is likely to further fuel any pre-existing arguments and difficulties."
Oh dear! Double strike!
Let's go for three!
I didn't read the small print and won't need to in future.
--
Kind regards
Andy
Moderation suggestion
Had you considered a cattle prod Becky? It would be like electric shock therapy but without the need for hospitals or trained staff - short sharp shock for the first offence, longer and higher voltage for repeated offences. It might not stop the problem but I bet you'd feel a whole lot better!!!
It's a shame that even a thread on moderation ends up needing to be moderated (and I'm not talking about my poor language - which represents sheer laziness on my part for not finding a more appropriate and socially-acceptable alternative - I'm thinking 'oh darn' in future (please note spelt RN not M or MN)). Not much hope for the human race if a bunch of accountants can't play together nicely and agree to differ.
Just look at AWEB as any other office
Is there an office where you get on with everyone?
Do you only discuss business in the office?
Does nobody ever swear?
Do the managers not have to come down from time to time to bring about order?
No, of course not ... we are just normal really!
PS ... discussions which don't have the odd digression are terminally dull. If Any Answers was just that I would spend about a tenth of the time here that I do. I would not use a 'play area' in the same way I don't use the other areas currently available and I suspect I am not alone in that.
Advice or discussion?
I agree that this distinction is at the heart of why things fly out of bounds.
With regard to the comment above doubting that anyone would sign on here for altruistic purposes, I would suggest scanning through the majority of questions and responses to see altruism alive and kicking (thank g*d), It will be a sad state of affairs if we get to the point where the only reason someone posts anything on here is for self-aggrandisement or because s/he is being ignored at home.
There will be situations in which "innocent" questions develop or where we might seek the views, via discussion, of other members on say a general business topic and so an open format (rather than group based) discussion forum would be a good idea.
.
Is
Muffin the Mule, still a (XXX) offence -(moderated before posting, just in case)!
Posted by ChannPrism on Wed, 18/05/2011 - 17:05
It's not an offence providing it's consentual.
.
With regard to the comment above doubting that anyone would sign on here for altruistic purposes, I would suggest scanning through the majority of questions and responses to see altruism alive and kicking
Posted by Paul Scholes on Wed, 18/05/2011 - 17:50
I think you're missing the point.
People will post answers "while they are here anyway", but I doubt they would actually log in just to give free advice if there were no discussions to read/take part in.
Why would that happen?
People will post answers "while they are here anyway", but I doubt they would actually log in just to give free advice if there were no discussions to read/take part in.
Posted by cymraeg_draig on Wed, 18/05/2011 - 18:56
I don't think the proposed changes would make a big difference at all, except to make it a much more pleasant place to be. It wouldn't stifle discussion at all, or prevent it being useful to lots of accountants (and the occasional non-accountant), it would just prevent posts on subjects that are famous for causing wars the world over, eg. politics, religion, etc.
There are forums made specifically for those subjects, and AWeb isn't one of them.
.
I don't think the proposed changes would make a big difference at all, except to make it a much more pleasant place to be. It wouldn't stifle discussion at all, or prevent it being useful to lots of accountants (and the occasional non-accountant), it would just prevent posts on subjects that are famous for causing wars the world over, eg. politics, religion, etc.
There are forums made specifically for those subjects, and AWeb isn't one of them.
Posted by ShirleyM on Wed, 18/05/2011 - 20:11
Your post shows a naive view of accountancy. Whilst bookkeepers may be able to approach accountancy as a technical mathematical excercise, an accountant cannot (if he's any use). Politics are inextricably linked to accountancy, the actions of politicians affect taxation, business confidence, market trends, the pros and cons of employing staff, every single day.
Religion (since you raise the topic) also has a direct effect on the advice we should give our clients. I have seen a client expanding his business only to find a competitor able to expand more quickly, only because he could obtain the necessary finance interest free.
Try looking at the HSBC Amanah products http://www.hsbcamanah.com/amanah/business , compare them to what is available to other customers, and tell me if this is a level playing field ? And remember, your client will not be allowed to access these advntagious products because of his religion.
Everything, every aspect of accountancy, whether tax, busness confidence, the legislative framework in which businesses operate, inflation, it is ALL affected by politics, religion, and numerous other factors. Wars can affect exports. Changes in fashion and even TV programmes can affect some businesses. Even success by the local football team can and does affect businesses as has been shown by numerous studies.
By adhering to your suggestions, AWeb would become merely a forum for "technical" issues, and would be better renamed BookkeepingWeb.
Difference of opinion
You are entitled to your view.
My view is that my clients do not care about my religion, or my politics, and an advanced level of knowledge (or lack of it) on either subject has never been an issue with my clients.
I exit this discussion now.
Religion & politics
I think (and may be wrong) that the point is not that we don't discuss politics & religion where they are appropriate to our work (Islamic funding, the budget proposals etc) but that we don't start discussing our personal views as unfortunately not everyone here will agree to differ. I'd be happy to discuss them as I find others views interesting and thought-provoking but unfortunately as has proved the case before now on AWeb not everyone takes that view. So unless the minority can play nicely, the majority have their toys confiscated until home-time (when they're off the premises). Sad but unless everyone is prepared to visit Becky in the loony bin when the men in white coats cart her off (those padded jackets with straps at the back are sooooooo last year) I think AWeb will be putting their feet down and keeping them there.
Still, its time for the first cuppa of the day and breakfast. The sun is shining and I am going to be very productive today! Have a splendid day one and all :)
Nothing to do with ones own attributes ....
@ShirleyM
Surely the point being made by @cymraeg_draig is that all these areas have a bearing on where we are today. How the legistlation & tax rules have come into being and furthermore, may be a pointer to future direction as well as inequalities in certain areas
Your clients may not be interested having a discussion about these matters but perhaps on a broader platform their advisor should have the background knowledge in order to best serve their needs
It's how we discuss topics not the topics themselves
I agree with CD that many topics may have a direct impact on what & how we do our jobs and even though we may have no desire to get involved a client may be directly effected by an humanities issue that could require our attention.
In my case I see imposed inequality, environmental and other social issues that impact in how business is run and am keen to discuss these with others in business, especially those on this site who advice business.
Despite many of these areas now being regulated and therefore fair game on here, my motives are personal as the law tends to be a blunt instrument and won't necessarily explain why an alternative route may be better than the one we have followed for 200 years.
But, on the topic of this thread, there are ways and ways of airing these views. In answer to Shirley's point yesterday, compare the way in which CD comes at it (last night) from that of JC (earlier today). I find CD's tone and innuendo towards a good accountant or a bookkeeper, judgmental, derogratory and offensive. JC's is straightforward and designed to get the point across without any such baggage.
In another thread recently I questioned CD's use of the word "Fight" in the discussion my point being that debate was instituted centuries ago to avoid the base need in some to treat any disagreement as a battle.