I have only put this as a tax question because i can't honestly think of anywhere else to put it!
One of my clients has informed me that it is accepted practice that if there is a room specifically set aside for worship in a house then council tax is not payable.
Before i beat a path to wacky joes and get my boxes of incense, prayer mats, etc does anyone know if this is true? If it is how does it work? And most obvious of all does it matter which religion? I am quite happy to wear a funny hat for brief periods of the day but draw the line at physical pain!
David Melia
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Forgot who it was that said
Going to war over religion is like fighting to see who's got the best imaginary friend.....
Iwan
There are plenty of ways to start wars. Having a pygmy PM lie to Parliament seems to work pretty well.
Does 'religion' really cause wars, or is it just ignorant people?
Sorry, I meant to let you have the last word, but just couldn't resist.
That's it from me. Promise!
Andy
Agreeing to disagree seems to be the only way we ever will agree on this one! I'd hate for a disagreement over religion to lead to another war!
Oh, Iwan
Surely you can do better than resort to that old 'you can't prove a negative' chestnut?
I can assure you that is certainly not the reason I had in mind at all.
I respect that you fervently believe that worship is a futile activity and that it unnecessarily costs the state money. I am not asking you to prove it, but to acknowledge that even though you are 'certain' it is still only a 'belief'.
Far more learned individuals than I (and possibly both us) have a strong contrary view to you. Some of them are scientists. Your comparison with todays view of ancient sacrificial rites works both ways. Tribal civilisations' view of what today's science is capable of would surely seem 'god-like' to them. Who knows what science will be able to demonstrate or 'prove' in a couple of hundred years time? I should guess it will include some incredible stuff that is unimaginable today. However, it is just as likely that this stuff will bring 'us' closer to the concept of a deity, and not further away. The more we know, the more there seems to be to know.
That is just one of many reasons why I can not share your certainty.
Oh and by the way, the Christian concept is built upon 'faith', not 'proof'. (OK, to them they are synonymous). I think your idea of proof would be self-defeating, because worship under those circumstances would be the slavery I think you were getting at and isn't compatible with salvation.
(Sorry it's a bit late in the day and I'm not explaining myself very well.)
You won't get any proof (either way), so you won't be disappointed. Is it time yet to agree to disagree? This must be so tedious for anyone else reading.
Andy
Thanks but we managed to muster up 2 virgins so we've been blessed with plenty :)
The only reason you can say that I don't "know" that worship serves no purpose is because it's impossible to prove a negative, you cannot prove that something doesn't exist. All that can ever be said is that the existence of any "god" is unproven. The existence of something however can be proven and yet after centuries no religion has ever been able to prove their "truths" to be true, Some biblical (or whichever other religious text) stories can be shown to have some basis in historical fact (vaguely) but that's all.
My main point originally was that as a ratepayer I don't see why I should subsidise worship. Just as I don't expect to have to subsidise fortune-telling, communicating with the dearly departed or ghostbusting, none of which I can prove to be nonsense but totally believe them all to be so.
Iwan
We still do that in our village.
Interested in buying any surplus wheat?
PS. You can not possibly know that worship serves no purpose. What you have is a 'faith'. That's fine, but you appear to condemn it in others.
It seems...
...we have another Great Unqualified Debate here with the unhappy difference that because of their arrogance and prejudice so many of the antis are entirely unqualified to offer a worthwhile opinion on the most profound and significant question that all mankind have had to consider since the beginning of thought.
Not sneering
If the "sneering" comment was aimed at me Andy then you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm actually closer to weeping at the future of a race which continues to waste so much time, money and resource to prolong an outdated means of control which serves absolutely no purpose.
Future humankind will look back upon Christianity, Judaism, Islam and all other religions much as we look back on those who thought that stabbing a chicken and baking a virgin would make their corn grow better over the next year.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
If God did not exist then worship would indeed be superstitious nonsense. Indeed, sadly much religious activity is little more than superstitious ritual. However, although I once thought (like most contributors to this thread) that all religion was unsubstantiated wishful thinking, I have now discovered that to be wrong. The truths of the Christian gospel do stand up to closer srutiny.
The Christian church has always included the bad as well as the good - like most if not all organisations. But the NHS isn't all bad just because people like Dr Shipman have worked in it. And the church isn't all bad either despite the serious failings of some of its members.
Difficult call
Which would make for a better society - superstitious believers in myths or sneering cynical number crunchers?
I have to admit it's a toughie.
Humility?
Maybe it's not the "humility" gene that's lacking but the "need of a mental crutch" gene?
Enough
I suppose some accountants must lack the appropriate gene required for worship (the humility gene!) . . . and that's one of the reasons they became accountants.
Jim
I appreciate what you're trying to say but just don't agree.
The rates situation is in no way based on anything other than the "place of worship" status, it is not the "contribution to the community" status. Therefore that's all that is relevant.
My personal favourite religion-based quote was by W C Fields "Prayers never bring anything... They may bring solace to the sap, the bigot, the ignorant, the aboriginal, and the lazy - but to the enlightened it is the same as asking Santa Claus to bring you something for Xmas."
One of my favourite quotes
"Faith is believing what you know ain't true" - Mark Twain
(sorry for the thread drift)
Superstitious Worship
Regardless of whether religion is good for society (which I doubt - think of the human cost of the kiddy-fiddling and the Pope's recent call not to use condoms), it is still superstition.
I heard a guy called Sam Smith said of religion "It is time we learnt to meet our emotional needs without embracing the preposterous"
Worship - not superstition
Iwan,
Before you dismiss all religious worship as superstition - have you been to your local church recently to see what really goes on there?
It is more likely that the churchgoers are subsidising the local council tax payers by providing lots of facilities and services to the community free of charge. They pay for this through their own voluntary giving.
Just ask your local council how much it would cost if they had to provide all the services currently provided by voluntary groups (both religious and secular). The answer would be hugely more than any council tax that might be charged on genuine places of worship.
Jim Etherton
LOL!!!!!
We too have a bar in our house, which is worshipped at religiously every Friday evening by at least 6 regulars, plus various other occasions in between and is used for no other purpose!!!! You aren't seriously telling me that I could (or should) get a council tax exemption for my home if I redesignate our drinking as religious activity!! The world has gone mad.......
That link is all very well ...
... but all it does is advise on the formalities required to comply with the application process. It passes no comment on the conditions that need to be satisfied for that application to be successful.
Good luck, anyway.
Sort of
There are some exemptions from non-domestic rates for some places of religious worship. To become such a place though you must give access to the public and have your home reclassified through the planning change of use category. You might (depending on religion) have to be certified under the "Places of religious worship registration act 1855" unless you are C of E or C of W (Wales). A famous case on the public access part is actually near you David - the mormon temple at Chorley. A quick summary was in the Church Times here:
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=63596
Of course there are probably further rules about religions created that require the wearing of funny headgear to get yourself classified. What were you suggesting by the way? A new religion wearing "kiss me quick" hats? It could be too popular and have a lot of young women trawling through your home.
Not just ministers .....
"your main work should be concerned with prayer, contemplation, education and the relief of suffering."
I think accountants also qualify under that criteria!!!!
I have a bar at home
its a place of much worship!
what are the chances of a rates reduction on that?