why my YearEnd Procedure include some extra transactions
I just performed a year end in Sage Instant for our year 2009, the figure on ledger 3299 (Profit and Loss) is different from what my accountant gave me.
I rang up and they said the reason is because they forgot to pick out some transactions from 2010 from the report I previously sent them. The then advice me to do a journal dated on 1st of January 2010, to correct the profit and loss. However, I'm not convinced by this, coz the figure in our previous year account will still be different from the report they gave us!
What do you advice to do in this case? Does my accountant need to re-do the 2009 accounts? In my sage, should I restore it to a previous backup before year-end, then redo the year-end????
I'm totally confused, any help?
Thanks for your reply
What do you mean by immaterial? My concern now is that they gave me a profit and loss b/fwd(3200) figure, which results from including some of the 2010 transactions - this is not the correct accounting figures right? So when I do a year-end, my profit and loss(3200) figure should be the right one coz I didn't include these transactions in 2010. So in order to make figures agreed, I will need to ADD these transactions in 2009 and do year-end, then reverse them in 2010. I'm just worried if this is the right way of doing it. My accoutant obviously doesn't want to redo the account for me - maybe they have already submitted it....
need to ask the accountant these questions
are the amounts small in relation to the rest of the accounts
you said you'd done the year end
you should ask the accountant what he's done
Re: why my YearEnd Procedure include some extra transactions
Your Accountant has told you they have included some 2010 transactions in your 2009 accounts by mistake, and they advise you to do a journal dated 01/01/2010.
This in only half of what needs to be done.
First do a journal dated 31/12/2009 between your Profit and Loss nominal and either the Prepayments or Accruals nominal (whichever applies) for the value of the transactions. This will correct your Profit & Loss figure to the correct date.
Then do another journal dated 01/01/2010 to clear the Prepayments or Accruals figure and the other side will be posted into the nominal codes where these transactions for 2010 that they included, are sitting.
This takes the transactions out of 2010 as they have already been accounted for in 2009.
If you would like to talk this over, or if you would like to have someone who knows Sage, who you can speak to about this type of thing, you can email me at witch@witch-queen.com and I will reply with a phone number
Regards,
--Witch-Queen
Thanks very much for your reply!
Yes I have already done a year-end, but I kept a backup copy before I did year-end procedure so I can restore all my data then redo the year-end. Faint..
Witch-Queen, All I care about now, is that my year-end doesn't go wrong. It's my accountant who made mistake. So If I do as you adviced, my profit and loss figure will not be accurate - but it will match to their figures of course!
Petersaxton, I found out the transactions they included by mistake - only 3 of them with under 50 pounds value. I guess this is what you mean by immaterial... So if these doesn't matter, I can do as Witch-Queen advised but it's just the figures are not accurate(because it includes transactions which doesn't belong to year 2009!!!)...
Check with your accountant
You want your figures to agree with your accountants.
If your accountants have made a mistake but they haven't submitted the accounts to Companies House or HMRC then they can correct their figures. I always tell my clients what the trial balance should look like before doing a year end. If you have a back up and you haven't done any/many transactions and it's too late to change the accounts then you can adjust Sage.
Too late?
What is too late? Because year end has already been run in Sage? No it's not. This is how it's done.
The usual procedure with Sage is to pass the year end to the accountants (back-up or hard copy whatever) and then immediatly run the Sage year end proceedure.
When the Final Accounts come back from the Accountant, there will always be some adjustments to do (eg. depreciation, Prepayments & Accruals etc) and journals will need to be done, dated the end of the prior year, to correct Sage to match the Accountants figures. (This would include correcting the error made in this case).
Sage MUST always be adjusted to match the Accountants Final figures, or the opening balances for the next year will be wrong.
fionaG do you really want to go back to a back-up and re-enter all your transactions, just because of a simple error when it can be adjusted in 5 minutes with a journal? It's up to you
-- Witch-Queen
Some confusion
“What is too late?”
I said: “and it's too late to change the accounts then you can adjust Sage.” – isn’t that obvious that I am saying if it’s too late to change the accounts? This is where the error is.
“ Because year end has already been run in Sage? No it's not. This is how it's done.”
No, I’m saying if it’s too late to change the accounts.
“The usual procedure with Sage is to pass the year end to the accountants (back-up or hard copy whatever) and then immediatly run the Sage year end proceedure.”
Usual? I don’t think so. It’s more sensible to run the year end after the year end adjustments have been made.
“When the Final Accounts come back from the Accountant, there will always be some adjustments to do (eg. depreciation, Prepayments & Accruals etc) and journals will need to be done, dated the end of the prior year, to correct Sage to match the Accountants figures. (This would include correcting the error made in this case).”
The error would need to be corrected at the start of the new year if the accountants figures were wrong.
“fionaG do you really want to go back to a back-up and re-enter all your transactions, just because of a simple error when it can be adjusted in 5 minutes with a journal? It's up to you”
Who is suggesting “re-enter all your transactions? I said: “If you have a back up and you haven't done any/many transactions”.
Not usually delays
As soon as I get the information I do the accounts.
It’s NOT more sensible to run the year end after the year end ad
Thank you, paulwakefield1. No it is not practical or indeed 'sensible' to leave the year end open before doing the adjustments, especially where an onsite bookkeeper is involved.
petersaxon, congratulations if you can do the final accounts immediatly you receive them. If you do then you are in a very small minority of Accountants who don't sit on them for weeks.
In my 20 years experience of being a bookkeeper for dozens of small businesses, using Sage on a daily basis, and over 10 years as a Sage consultant to a number of high transaction/turnover companies, who have in-house bookkeeping staff, this has NEVER happened. Nor will I ever allow the year end to be kept open whilst waiting for the Accountants final figures.
The reasons are simple. If you don't run the year end as soon as the data has been produced for the Accountant, how can you trust that the on-site bookkeeper will not either enter or amend something dated in the prior year and therefore change the figures AFTER they have been given to the accountant?
We all know the annoying pop up that Sage produces which warns that 'transactions are outside your financial year etc', when you try to enter something in the new year, before running year end. (granted this can be turned off in V2010, but do so at your peril) It is annoying, but it is there for a reason. If you don't run the year end as soon as the final figures are given to the accountant, and wait for the adjustments, then the bookkeeper will learn to ignore the warning and not notice if it does NOT pop up if they do something in the already finalised year. However if you run the year end in Sage, then the warning will only pop up if they try to do something in the prior year and will make them think twice about doing something.
Moreover, why wait and leave the bookkeeper with the annoying popup for months? Adjusting the prior year, after year end has been run in Sage, is a simple matter of doing a journal, often provided by, and sometimes entered by, the Accountant (in my experience), to correct the Trial Balance to match the final accounts.
petersaxon, regarding your reply to my post. “What is too late?” my reply was in answer to your post " Too Late, The OP has already run the year end" which you posted in reply to my instrustions to fionaG on how to correct her Sage to match her Accountants final figures. And with regard to your reply "Usual? I don’t think so", unless you are a bookkeeper with an expert knowledge of the mechanics of Sage, don't presume to tell me what is usual and what is not. What is usual to your practice does not mean it us usual to the rest of us. "The error would need to be corrected at the start of the new year if the accountants figures were wrong" I disagree. Yes this would correct the new year, but where is your adjustment to the prior year figures? If yuou only do the adjustment in the new year, the prior year in Sage would not match the Final Accounts.
In trying to help fionaG I assumed that, as she said her year end was 2009, even if it was December, she will have entered 3 months of transations in the new year and would not want to enter these again, and that her Accountant had either already filed the final accounts and was unable to correct the figures or unwilling to do so.
The most important thing that fionaG needed to know was that, regardless of the mistake made by her Accountant, the Sage year end Trial Balance figures MUST be made to match the Final Accounts as produced by her Accountant. She kept saying that HER profit & loss figure had to be the right one, not the accountants figure. This was incorrect.
--Witch-Queen
Thanks Witch-Queen
After your discussion, i'm more clear on this issue.
Sage problem
FionaG you are very welcome.
I did give you my email address in an earlier reply and, should you wish to do so, please feel free to contact me directly.
I have helped many people on this site with Sage problems, some of whom now phone me for any further help they might need. I am always happy to help fellow Sage users. Free of charge, of course.
-- Witch-Queen
change of situation
updated situation added above.
Our company in 09 is not vat registered and no need to be audited.