Why such patronising and rude replies?

Why such patronising and rude replies?

Didn't find your answer?

This morning I have carried out my usual ritual of reviewing the latest 'any answers' section.  Having looked at some that I considered to have useful titles, I am shocked  yet again by some of the replies, yes you know who you are - it is always the same few!  

Surely the 'any answers' section is so that we can all learn from each other.  Yes, some of us have more experience than others but why be so rude in your replies.  If you've got nothing constructive to say then don't bother replying - you've obviously got too much time on your hands!  It is no wonder that so many people post their messages anonymously.

Spring is here so let's give everyone a break and start dealing with each other in a respectful manner. 

And yes I've posted this anonymously!

Replies (81)

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 11:33

Patronising Rude Replies

I am so glad that you have posted this comment.  I am new to accounting web, and don't have all the answers yet, so thought the facility to help one another was great.  I posted a couple of questions recently, and the usual fully qualified who sees the lesser qualified as something under their foot,  came to the surface, with sarcastic comments.  Why are people in our industry like this?

This made me wonder why I should be involved with this website at all!  It is not what I expected from a professional industry.  

But I do need to say there are also some wonderful people out there, who gave some really helpful answers.

And yes, although having posted with my name in the past, I am posting this anonymously too.

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By cathygrimmer
10th Mar 2010 11:47

Hang in there newcomer

As with all groups of people - some are helpful, kind and empathetic and some are - well - just not! Ignore responses from the offensive and the show-offs (you'll soon start to recognise them) and accept the help and advice from the others, who make up the majority. I think AWeb is great - and it exercises my mind (I am a sad person who enjoys complex tax questions) - although, of course, in some ways I would be better off if it didn't exist and every accountant needed a tax specialist of their own!

Cathy

[email protected].

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By Phil Rees
10th Mar 2010 11:48

Some people apparently feel insecure for some reason

There is seldom any need to be rude on this site.

However, it is worrying when a simple and basic question is posted by an accountant in practice. Some people should obviously not be in practice, the same way as some people should not be allowed behind the wheel of a motor car.

 

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By cymraeg_draig
10th Mar 2010 12:11

It depends to some extent on the topic ................

Where there is "discussion" and a difference of opinion then of course debate can get "heated".  There are, after all, issues which whilst affecting accountants, are not "black & white" and I believe it will be a sad day when people cannot air their views about legislation or policy or anything else which affects our profession and our clients without fear of censorship.  

However, where someone asks a straight forward question requiring a yes/no or "how to do it" answer then patronising or insulting responses are not acceptable. 

I do sympathise with the OP as I have encountered some extremely rude individuals on this site.  My natural instinct, rightly or wrongly, being to fight back rather than allow them to drive me away.

Hopefully on "technical" questions the OP will find most people helpful, and will simply ignore the few who seem to make patronising comments which they perhaps consider "amusing" but which are in fact insulting.

 

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By Moonbeam
10th Mar 2010 12:21

Being mature about it

I agree with everything you've said. The offensive nature of some of the replies put off some of us from posting questions.

I would also add that when someone insults you publicly the best response is not to comment on what they've said. I am sure the insulter will feel really fed up if just ignored!

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 12:23

Patronising Rude Replies

Well Phil

You have obviously heard your ears burning and must have known everything you need to know, since the day you were born then!  

If you have passed exams and have a license to practice, you are qualified to do so.

Some people can read as many books and sit as many exams as they like.  But until they have the work based experience in a particular area, there will be a few uncertainties, until things are looked up.  This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in practice, nor that they should instantly be able to know the answer to everything.  Its great to be able to ask others opinions, who may have more experience in a particular field than someone else, so that you can deal with things more confidently!

 

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By cymraeg_draig
10th Mar 2010 12:37

Knowing it all......................

..... But until they have the work based experience in a particular area, there will be a few uncertainties, until things are looked up.  This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in practice, nor that they should instantly be able to know the answer to everything.  Its great to be able to ask others opinions, who may have more experience in a particular field than someone else, so that you can deal with things more confidently!

 

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 10/03/2010 - 12:23

 

After 40 years I don't "know it all" - why?  Because we work in an area where the rules are constantly changing, and if you actually have a life then you just don't have time to keep up to date on areas you don't deal with. So, when something outside your particular area crops up, of course you ask for advice.  Actually, it's the ones who don't ask, and who sail on thinking they know it all, and probably getting it wrong, who perhaps shouldn't be in practice.

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 13:07

Phil makes a valid point, and....

Phil's point that some of the questions posted are so very basic that they cannot be mere gaps in the posters knowledge.

And then there is the matter of questions being so badly constructed and written (no I don't mean typed - we all make typos) that they are vitually unintelligible.

If the poster cannot properly formulate a question there must be concerns about the advice that that poster gives.

That is not unreasonable - is it?

But none of this excuses rudeness or being patronising.

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 13:19

Rude Replies and Knowledge

Thank you cymraeg_draig

For expanding on my comment of 'we can't all know everything' by saying that the ones who don't ask questions can sometimes be the ones who shouldn't be in practice.  If we don't give people the opportunity to finely tune themselves by asking for help, when they are a little unsure about something, this is definitely where things can go badly wrong.

But I agree regarding basic questions being asked.

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By valentino rossi
10th Mar 2010 13:28

I agree with Phil although not for the same reasons

Regarding the simple questiosn being posted on here it is not necessarily the fact that the poster shows a lack of knowledge of a simple subject that frustrates me.

What does however annoy me and I suspect others is failure of people to do some research first themselves. I quick delves into the Revenue Manuals or a reference book would give the correct answer.

Or to use the search engine facility of this website. How many time do people ask questions like, what software should I use?, what salary should we be declaring for a salary to get the NIC credit and not pay tax? etc.

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By Phil Rees
10th Mar 2010 13:28

How rude is this?

Well Phil

You have obviously heard your ears burning and must have known everything you need to know, since the day you were born then!  

 This is not what I meant at all. Are you my ex wife?

 

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By Chris Wise
10th Mar 2010 14:19

Taking sides

I'm with Phil and Valentino on this I'm afraid.

Some posters who infer they are in practice do lack very very basic knowledge which makes you wonder what they don't know they know.

There are also those who when you post a reply to their question disagree with you, even if you include a link/ Difference of opinion is one thing, but I've actually  seen someone say "well I've done it my way now".

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 14:33

priceless

WD/CD...your best yet...!!

Its true there are some posts that do make you cringe but there are ways of pointing out to someone that maybe they have chosen the wrong career without wiping the floor with them..also you know what its like sometimes...you're 100% sure of something pretty basic but important and need that bit of reassurance in case you've missed something..

Incidentally spring ain't in the air where I am anon...almost froze my wotsits off walking the dog this morning and going back to the thermals tomorrow...

pembo

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By cymraeg_draig
10th Mar 2010 14:37

Suspicion

Some posters who infer they are in practice do lack very very basic knowledge which makes you wonder what they don't know they know.

 

Posted by Chris Wise on Wed, 10/03/2010 - 14:19

 

I may be wrong, but I suspect that sometimes questions are posted by people who are not accountants/agents at all.  The same people who ring claimimg to be looking for a new accountant and then proceed to try to get free advice ver the phone.  We've all had them.  

the answer is of course simple - if a question is so basic - just dont bother posting a reply.

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By Phil Rees
10th Mar 2010 14:37

Sur l'autre main

This place can be a good place to learn.

I have posted an answer here on more than one occasion only to be corrected because my knowledge in a particular area was out of date. (Eg it may have been unchanged for the previous 30 years but it changed in the last budget and I missed it, despite being up to date with my CPD).

 

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By cymraeg_draig
10th Mar 2010 14:42

A good demonstration of the OP's point
     priceless

WD/CD...your best yet...!!

pembo

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 10/03/2010 - 14:33

 

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 14:54

for goodness sake

lighten up CD...I was merely making an observation based on some of the rather "heated" exchanges your alter ego WD had with certain contributors and in particular the evil stalker called "skylarking"...

Incidentally has the fact that you've now changed back to the original dragon image instead of the frankly what I thought rather bland monochrome one mean that your period of rehabilitation is over and we can expect more of the same anytime soon..???

pembo

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
10th Mar 2010 15:19

I have given up

I share the views of Phil, Valentino and Chris.

We have four qualified accountants in our practice and I know the benefit of being able to bounce questions off each other either because one of the others has experience on a particular topic or just for reassurance.  For that reason, I have tried to provide answers on this forum to those asking similar questions on the topics with which I am familiar.  I too have struggled with incoherent questions which I have had to answer on the "If you meant this, then ..., but on the other hand, if you meant that, ..." basis.  I find it irritating when the OP comes back, discloses some additional facts and asks a supplementary question, because I think it is wasting the time of everyone who has taken the trouble to answer the original question.  I too have noticed the increasing simplicity of questions - I like to think that these come from members of the public looking for free advice, rather than from practising accountants - and the frequent repetition of the same questions, which may be due to the shortcomings of the Search facility on this site, but more likely is due to not putting in any effort in the first place.

However, I am not prepared to be slagged off by other posters - not least by one on this thread.  Nor am I prepared to tolerate having one of my posts - which was almost entirely comprised of a quote from that other poster - redacted by the moderator.

So, while I will continue to look in most days like the OP, I won't be exposing myself to aggressive criticism or moderation by answering any more questions.

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By stephenkendrew
10th Mar 2010 15:31

Can I be the first to say....

that AccountingWeb will be a significantly worse resource if Euan MacLennan is not going to contribute to it.

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 15:32

Euan, I hope you don't mean it

Euan, I do understand your point if view but I hope that you will reconsider. You are, without doubt, in my humble opinion, the best contributor to this site bar none. Your knowledgeable, clearly explained answers are masterpieces. And I for one can't manage wthout them.

So, please continue to answer questions.

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By cymraeg_draig
10th Mar 2010 15:35

Lighten ?
for goodness sake

lighten up CD...I was merely making an observation based on some of the rather "heated" exchanges your alter ego WD had with certain contributors and in particular the evil stalker called "skylarking"...

pembo

 

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 10/03/2010 - 14:54

 

Perhaps I would "lighten up" if others realised a simple FACT.

I do not, and have never, posted any insulting post of any kind EXCEPT in response when first subjected to unprovoked and offensive posts by others.

One in particular springs to mind where in a discussion thread I stated that, in my view, immigration is a major issue and that it needs to be controlled or even reversed as the UK has only finite resources.   I immediately found myself being accused af "racism" by a poster who, quite frankly, doesnt know if I am black, white, or green with yellow spots. My wife is in fact an "immigrant" into this country, and I am certainly not racist.  I am however a realist.  That unprovoked attack upon me was a deliberate and scurrilous accusation blatantly intended to insult and defame.

The fact is that there are a small number of poster on this forum, as on most forums, who seem to believe that no one has a right to an opinion which does not concur with their particular (often bizarre) views.  

 

 

 

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By Phil Rees
10th Mar 2010 15:37

Mr Kendrew
You can be the first to say that AccountingWeb will be a significantly worse resource if Euan MacLennan is not going to contribute to it if I can be the second.

 Edit: I would have been the second one if some inconsiderate cleint hadn't phoned when I was half way through typing the post.

 

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 16:02

And I shall be the third or fourth... Please Euan

Please Euan, I have benifitted a lot from your posts. So please stay on

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By richardterhorst
10th Mar 2010 16:13

Rude replies? Why? A sicko maybe?

 I am not getting involved in the argument whether someone should or should not be in practice. It takes all kinds and who are we to judge.

However giving a rude reply to a genuine questions reflects on the replyer and not very favourably either.

Why be rude? What kicks do you get out of it? We do not think you are clever because you do? Just obnoxious.

I have no problem showing who I am. I delete obnoxious people from my mind.

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 16:23

my ball and game?

think euen you may need to lighten up as well...I have no idea what you're referring to but something/ones obviously upset you... I do agree however that your absence would make this site a poorer place so why not a compromise to keep your fans happy and just respond to those that meet your stated criteria and ignore those that do not....its not that difficult to spot the "genuine" ones and I just ignore the plain daft ones on the basis that to reply is encouraging exactly the sort of thing that annoys you...

pembo

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 16:26

Euan please do not leave

Stay and continue to make a positive contributions.

I have learnt that you have to be thick skinned to be an Aweb user.

Dont let the 'bankers' you know what I mean get you down!

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 16:33

Euan

 

Euan have you thought that your post was insulting and uncalled for and that AW were right to censor it?  You're not always right even if you think you are.

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 16:38

vote Euan

Another vote for Euan from me.

He's helped me out in the past and i take his name as a positive brand/seal of quality type thing.

Something i genuinely wonder about is this: How did WD occupy his time before he found this site?

Also I quite miss angus/skylarking. When he had a go at P Scholes it was very funny and also water off a duck's back, (I suspect).

 

 

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 17:33

P Scholes

I think he is playing tonight.

Fantastic player

P Neville

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By User deleted
10th Mar 2010 18:01

More proof of the OP's point

 

Something i genuinely wonder about is this: How did WD occupy his time before he found this site?

 

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 10/03/2010 - 16:38

 

Another perfect example of the OP's point.  Also proves that the person who posted it doesn't bother to read posts, only seeing what they wish to see. 

I agree with the OP there are some extremely rude and unpleasant people here and the [removed by mod].

 

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By Sarah K Dunks
10th Mar 2010 18:06

OK guys should we leave it there

The point that I was trying to make as the OP was that whatever the post, be it basic or not - rudeness is not acceptable.  If you consider it too basic then ignore it.

AWeb provides many of us with valuable advice especially start ups like myself however it can be demoralising to  keep reading insulting banter - after all we are supposedly professionals!

So let's go forward and help those seeking genuine advice and use AWeb for what it's designed for.

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By Chris Wise
11th Mar 2010 09:15

Euan

Have to agree Euan's contribution would be a major loss to the site, and when I read the revised T&C last week I did think the mods were a bit over zealous with the removing off topic posts. threads evolve, they will change as indeed this one had from being about rudeness to Euan to WD.

I suspect the rudeness is mostly bourne of frustration, particularly if the OP has inferrred they are in practice and asre asking something they really should and could research, or even worse in my opinion ask a fairly complex planning question they should outsourse and pay for if they can't handle it.

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By paulwakefield1
11th Mar 2010 11:53

"asking something they really should and could research"

But isn't asking here a form of research?

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By Peter Cane
11th Mar 2010 14:43

Euan, don't go

I too would like to plead with Euan not to carry out his threat. I always value your replies.

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By User deleted
11th Mar 2010 15:29

Euan

Ther e was a song once, which i can not remember, I think it was by KC and the sunshine band!

This is for Euan

Pleeease dooonn'ttt goooo!! dooont goooooo   awayyy. Babe I love you etc.......

Back to work

 

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By User deleted
11th Mar 2010 15:35

for goodness sake

without wishing to appear either patronising or rude can we please stop this Euan love in as its starting to make me feel creepy. True the guy had some valid contributions but then so do many other contributors to this site. Some of the stuff he posted was not so good so if Euan wants to throw his rattle out of the pram thats his perogative.Move on.

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
11th Mar 2010 17:41

I'd like to repeat what Sarah said

As several of the people who commented here will know, the AccountingWEB team has been getting increasingly frustrated by the recent mood that has grown up on the site, partly as a result of abuses committed by anonymous contributors (although some named members can also be pretty rude too).

To remind everyone, last week we introduced new moderation rules to quash the name-calling:

Any comment or part of a comment which contains anything which is not relevant to the OP will be removed.Any comment or part of a comment which attacks another member in any way will be removed.We will not enter into debate with any members about these decisions.The third time we have to do this to any member then their account will be closed.

Those rules were devised to deal with extreme situations, but just as worrying for us are the low-grade rudeness and arrogance that are almost as destructive to community spirit. New members who bravely venture out to post on AccountingWEB.co.uk shouldn't feel like they're being watched by a gang of hooded youths while walking through a dimly lit shopping precinct.

Nor is AccountingWEB like some kind of exclusive Oxbridge club, where you can shut the doors and behave like morons with little fear of the consequences. We're an open community and there will often be business people, students and other practitioners who aren't as clever as you. The reason they have come here is to ask for help. So help them politely if you can or, as my grandmother put it, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

As well as abuse, libel etc we will be keeping an eye out for unnecessary rudeness and may intervene on occasion as part of our new "zero tolerance" approach to try and improve the atmosphere on the site. We'll have to see what effect it has in the next few weeks.

Sorry, too, to hear about your disillusionment, Euan - that bothers us too. Rather than begging you to come back, we'll hope that AccountingWEB can speak for itself and become more like the constructive and useful resource we intended it to be.

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By stgreg
12th Mar 2010 09:09

Yikes!

"Any comment or part of a comment which contains anything which is not relevant to the OP will be removed."

So no jokes; no asides; great care so as not to stray; no threads that develop a theme and move it on, quite often to something slightly different.

It could get quite dull.

Actually it seems that this comment is not about people being rude but rather about the severity of the new rules on moderation.

So it will probably be removed.

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By User deleted
12th Mar 2010 09:37

Moderation required

John Stokdyk's remark that:

"Nor is AccountingWEB like some kind of exclusive Oxbridge club, where you can shut the doors and behave like morons with little fear of the consequences."

is clearly attacking members of AWeb who went to either of the esteemed universities.

When you set rules, be careful not to breach them yourself!

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By cymraeg_draig
12th Mar 2010 09:38

Where's the exit ?
Yikes!

"Any comment or part of a comment which contains anything which is not relevant to the OP will be removed."

So no jokes; no asides; great care so as not to stray; no threads that develop a theme and move it on, quite often to something slightly different

Posted by stgreg on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 09:09

 

 

Guess the references to my politically discriminating moggie mean I'm outta here.

I'll get my coat on the way out.

 

 

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By snopes
12th Mar 2010 11:18

@ John Stokdyk

 

1. You state that you are not going "to beg" Euan MacLennan to come back to Aweb. That is your prerogative but perhaps you should consider whether you have adopted an appropriate tone in addressing a long-standing, valued  and respected contributor to this site.

2. You imply that some of us who have attended Oxford and Cambridge Universities behave like morons. I doubt that I am the only reader to find that remark offensive and insulting, especially when you then go on to protest your dedication to eliminating unnecessary rudeness from this site.

I suggest that two apologies are due from you.

 

ebenezer cuckpowder

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By Peter Bonetti
12th Mar 2010 11:49

Ebeneezer

1. Surely it's just a matter for Euan whether or not he contributes. If he does, great, if not then others will take his place. I(t would be regrettable if he feels hounded out but that is his choice.

2. So Oxbridge is a guarantee of decency and civility? I'm afraid that's a silly thing to say. If you take offence at what John said then I think your sensitivity setting may need some calibration.

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By User deleted
12th Mar 2010 11:55

Ebeneezer

 

The tone of your posting would seem to support John's view which you object to in item 2 of your post.

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By snopes
12th Mar 2010 12:13

@ the two previous posters

If any poster had referred to other members as "morons" their post would have undoubtedly been deleted under the new zero tolerance policy.

The question is why should a different standard apply to the moderators?

 

ebenezer cuckpowder

 

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By User deleted
12th Mar 2010 12:46

You know the answer

You answerred your own question - they are moderators.  Life just isn't fair sometimes is it?

 

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By User deleted
12th Mar 2010 13:07

and my dog

has been barred as well then to which I take great offence...upset me me by all means but not pouchy or I get nasty..

On the subject of the great and the good can't think for one minute why Dave and George are "very embarrassed" about their days in the Bullingdon...how anyone could describe these fine upstanding gentlemen as "morons" is quite beyond me ..

I would imagine (hope?)  that Euan must be cringing by now (or maybe not) .....

pembo

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
12th Mar 2010 13:05

Hoist by my own petard

I have had my wrist slapped by the Community Manager and while I could argue that my comment was only critical about members of certain Oxbridge dining clubs rather than anyone who attended such universities, I do accept that it is an example of a comment that steps over the line and undermines the general atmosphere on the site.

But for the fact that it has been referred to an requoted several times, it would otherwise now be replaced by the [removed by moderator] statement.

I apologise for making the comment. I got a little carried away by my emotions and literary pretentions when I should have taken a quick step back from the fray and stuck to my main point.

Please also take this as an example of how easy it is to slide into bad habits - and guard against them yourself.

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By cymraeg_draig
12th Mar 2010 14:44

Senile ?????
and my dog

has been barred as well then to which I take great offence...upset me me by all means but not pouchy or I get nasty..

pembo

 

Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 13:07

 

Funny how people are always so protective of their animals ?  Or maybe not, after all they do often demonstrate more sense than most humans.

Begining to think the cat is going senile - he jumped on the bed yesterday and promptly rolled on his back to have his stomach scratched as usual .............and rolled straight off the edge of the bed.  How the hell do they always land on their feet ?

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By User deleted
12th Mar 2010 15:05

Cats

"How the hell do they always land on their feet ?"

Try this then - glue a piece of buttered toast onto a cat's back and throw it up in the air. The result should be interesting.

PC

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By cymraeg_draig
13th Mar 2010 14:40

Tried it......................

"How the hell do they always land on their feet ?"

Try this then - glue a piece of buttered toast onto a cat's back and throw it up in the air. The result should be interesting.

PC

Posted by Anonymous on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 15:05

 

Tried it.

The cat twisted round, licked the butter off the toast in mid air, and still landed on it's feet  :)

 

 

 

 

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