I'm curious about how accountants process work. Solicitors use "case management" software, but most accountants seem to do it manually - they have software to produce accounts, tax etc. but the work required to administer and supply this information to clients is often done by hand. Why is this?
Rod Voyce
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I really think some of us need to speak to our suppliers a bit m
I run an independent consultancy to the Profession...
Many firms of accountants are already using workflow management and alerting systems (to automatically tell them about issues before it's too late)
A significant number of firms are already operating on a job (or matter basis)
For example, Personal Tax work may be considered as recurring, but it can also be split into annual jobs, each with their own budgets and deadlines. Any firm which treats all personal tax clients as having the same deadline is asking for trouble. Good firms set their own internal deadlines and start managing the clients, rather than the other way around.
The major suppliers already have workflow management systems. Some are OK, some are good and some are absolutely brilliant.
An Alternative
A very interesting series of answers. I am an old ACA. I left practice a long time ago, but remember check lists, etc. I've just returned from our annual Audit, so chatted to my Auditor. They use Iris for the accounts production, CT, etc, but have no 'workflow' solution.
As always it is horses for courses.......................
One of our largest customers looks after the payroll and related needs of 8000 families who employ nannies. We supplied to them and support both the payroll and 'workflow\business\CRM' packages. Each 'family' has a payroll, there are numerous employment, visa and other contracts and letters to worry about for each nanny (never mind the P46, P45, P35, pay rate issues). The 'engagement' can be months, years, weeks. Letters\contracts need to go out. If the nanny comes from inside the EU, the system automatically knows that these six letters are required. Over 120,000 letters have been created. There is scanning in of P45's, contract signatures, etc. There are agreements for services rendered that need renewing, with payment terms, chase dates, commissions, etc, etc. Emails fly in on all sorts of subjects and those directed to public folders can be picked up by any user and dealt with. Marketing is a very big area so being able to tag all sorts of families based on their 'activity' is key (as is producing the letter, the label, the record of it all). Everybody has a diary, there is a room booking module, an attendance module (used by a well known motor manufacturer)...........I could go on, but needless to say it covers a lot (everything in Outlook and more) of what is asked
I appreciate this is not a practice management system badged for Accountants, but based on the comments here, for basic workflow I can see loads of synergy (awful word)
Cost - the 'workflow\business\CRM' package - budget on £150 per user. This is a once off charge, with no annual charge for using the software
Cheers
Daniel Clark
Ryba Macaulay Ltd
[email protected]
Iris Sole Practioner
What do other sole practioner Iris users out there use? - workflow within Iris or something bolted on? (Other than their own head or spreadsheet).
Workflows for Accountants
There are 2 main differences between systems for accountants and solicitors: 1 - solicitors are case driven and cases come and go, whereas accountants do recurring work; and 2. - solicitors hold client funds.
The regulations covering client funds are stringent - I know solicitors who have gone to jail because they used client funds, albeit temporarily and without damage to the client. Having said this, both markets can use "case management" software - or "workflows" but my findings are that accountants usually don't. I don't accept that the regulations drive this - my opinion is that the established suppliers to accountants do not have good case management softtware. The reason for this may be that such software is complex to write, and from a user point of view, can be complex and expensive to implement. But solicitors have implemented these systems, and as such they are ahead of accountants in terms of work processing effiiciency. My conclusion is that accountants will use case management when they realise the benefits and secondly they can find a good, flexible cost-effective system which is easy to implement. Logical Office is the new option, which is providing significant time saving benefits, even for sole practitioners (references available) - who can have this system for as little as £15+VAT a week - and they get a lot more than just case management.
Solicitors Accounts Rules
Surely the main reason for the apparently higher take-up of solicitors of workflow software is the SAR and the very strict accounting required of client moneys?
Since any but the dumbest solicitor must use a computerised package to do that properly, that effectively means they all have quite sophisticated accounting software and that then means it is easier for a supplier to bundle in (and sell) workflow processes.
A secondary reason must be that solicitors' workflows are all file-centric and that their files are generally quite specific to one legal transaction / issue only. I don't think accountants' workflows are that simple and that must be one of the reasons why we are allegedly less willing to trust our deadline management to software.
I also have to agree with Clint that I really can't accept the premise that solicitors (on average) are more efficient than accountants (on average) as that isn't my experience.
Affordable Workflows?
Reply to CFL : Since you asked : Logical Office is priced per concurrent user per annum and starts at 1 user £720+VAT which includes Workflows for accountants (Annual acs, VAT, Annual Returns, Fixed Price Agts etc) as well as engagement letter production (in under 60 seconds), scanning direct to client files, document management in a paperless office, marketing, CRM, case management, diary, and (in the latest release) time recording. The price includes the software, help desk support, new version upgrades, access to our on-line library of training videos, and account management. Most firms waste more than £720 per annum of fee earner time writing engagement letters! (and also wasting time with inefficient filing systems, not to mention administering compliance work). The price per user decreases with the number of users - so please ask if you need more information.
Affordability?
I have worked in four town centre CA practices and all have had computerised practice managment/workflow systems - and that's going back over the past 25 years! Unfortunately, the admin systems always seem to be an after thought bolted on to the main software of tax return and accounts preparation, and usually are built around time recording. You can very easily run up a several thousand pound bill if you adopt one of the main players for specialist accountancy software, and often only one or two of their core products are good leaving you having to compromise on other programs in the name of integration. You only have to look at these forums to see that people seem disatisfied with say IRIS or Sage payroll, yet delighted with their tax return system.
There are some truly excellent stand alone pieces of software, such as Drummohy, Moneysoft, VT, etc which are not just good and quick to use, they are also affordable. There is a gap in the market for a similar practice management system. The closest I have found was the ACCA practice manager system which has very good workflow routines but is very cumbersome to use for a one-man practice - probably excellent for a larger practice as it has good levels of supervision, management and control over work and staff - so basically it has positioned itself wrongly - it works best for the larger firm who probably already use Sage, Iris, Digital, PTP, etc., but is too cumbersome for a one man practice.
If someone could come up with a simple practice management database with workflow management at say £250 or under p.a., it would sell like hot cakes. If they just concentrated on functionality and simplicity, like Drummohr, VT and Moneysoft (like the old dos based systems) and forgot about fancy graphics etc., it would be a winner.
What price?
I have just had a look at the logical office website.
I do hate it when websites sing praises of a product but show no indication whatsoever of the price.
Rod, be brave, and tell us how much it is.
Answers
I knew I recognised the name - saw you demo your products at a 2020 function.
To answer your question - I actually think some solicitors like accountants are in the dark ages, but with solictors you tend to get a stark contrast either antiquated or very automated. Maybe solictors charge more and have more cash availiable for all singing all dancing software!??
Workflows for accountants
Reply to Nicola : I'm not the gentleman from Invu - I'm from Logical Office. Point 3 in your list of why accountants are not using Workflow tools is the one we have resolved, but I was trying to get a feel for the real reasons behing the difference between the two markets, because your points 1 & 2 apply generally to solicitors as well, where there are dozens of case management suppliers. My feeling is that accountants need to address the issue of workflows if they are to restrain costs and save time.
Not sure that I accept the premise.
I don't have much experience of accountancy practices other than the ones where I work or have worked, but these all seem to have fairly good automated database driven workflow controls.
By contrast, our local solicitor practices seem to be pretty sluggish.
Several factors........
I think it's a combination of factors, speaking as an accountant in practice, and having worked in practice for 20 years -
1. In general accountants are traditional - many of us do what we do because that's what we've always done. A terrible excuse but often true - try getting a partner to change what they have done for years!
2. Time pressure - it can be difficult to find/make time to deal with admin with all of the other matters involved in running a practice, and most importantly,
3. Lack of a decent product that will do the job - it is SO difficult to find a good product that does the job. You only have to review this site to see people asking for products that will work AND dont cost the earth.
Are you the gentleman from INVU?