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25 collaborative work opportunities for accountants

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30th Mar 2015
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No doubt you’re a great accountant. But, if you are like most accountants there are occasions when one of your clients faces an issue, challenge or problem that goes beyond what you are comfortable dealing with yourself.

There may also be times when you identify clients who need advice or support from someone other than you, their accountant.

On such occasions you have the option of ignoring this need, of encouraging your client to seek out a suitable service provider, or of introducing one you already know.

In the latter case you may simply want to effect an introduction. On other occasions, you may engage a specialist to provide a necessary service for clients but which you anticipate charging for just as if it had been provided by an in-house, partner, employee or consultant.

This tends to happen most often when clients' needs relate to advice they might ordinarily expect to receive from their accountant.

Perhaps the most common examples of such services are those that relate to specialist areas of tax. No-one should feel the need to advise all clients across all and any areas of tax that crop up.

If you have sufficient confidence in your abilities you won’t be afraid to admit to clients before it becomes apparent they need advice that goes beyond your experience and expertise.

In larger firms it is normal to refer such situations to in-house experts. Smaller firms may have their own preferred external specialists or they may choose someone suitable as and when the need arises.

Talking with smaller firms of accountants, I have noticed a small but significant number who look to differentiate themselves through offering add-on services. Some are provided by the sole practitioner or their staff and others are provided by sub-contractors working through the firm.

This concept isn’t new. Many firms have long advertised that they provide a full range of accounting and tax services despite the fact that they do not have the in-house capability of fulfilling all such promises.

Another common scenario is that of a new client asking an accountant to provide a service they’ve not had cause to do for any clients in the recent past. In effect they are out of date and out of practice. They may even have forgotten that the service was listed among those on their website.

“Ah, yes, we did used to provide that service ourselves. But the rules have changed so much recently, we now find that clients are better served by us introducing a real specialist. Eddie Expert focuses on helping clients who have the same problem or challenge as you and we trust him to look after our clients.”

What’s the alternative? To provide a sub-standard service yourself or to allow the client to find someone else themselves? Wouldn’t you prefer to pick who they use? Someone who will appreciate the referral and who may in turn refer clients back to you?

Yes, I know there is a risk that whoever you recommend won’t be perfect. But they should be well placed to provide a better service than you could have done yourself.

So far I have been talking about situations where clients seek your input and you introduce someone else to provide the specialist service or to advise on the issue at hand. But, what if you want to be seen to be pro-active?

Are you ever aware of clients who have issues, challenges or problems where they haven’t thought to ask for your help?

As suggested earlier you have a choice and can introduce other service providers who can help your clients and they can do so either through your practice or directly with your clients.

In some cases you may be able to collaborate, secure mutual work referrals or simply leave them to help your clients.

Here are 25 collaborative work opportunities for accountants. How many have you tried?:

  1. Auto enrolment services: If you run payroll for clients you probably can’t put this off much longer
  2. Business coaches: The better coaches will encourage clients to take more account of their financial data on a more regular basis. This can result in more work for you as the accountant producing and interpreting regular management accounts and related data
  3. Capital Allowance specialists: Where the sums involved are big enough and especially where a well formulated claim requires input from quantity surveyors
  4. Commercial lawyers: Accountants are not qualified to give advice on contracts that are intended to have legal effect
  5. Company secretarial services: When this isn’t part of your core offering perhaps because most of your clients aren’t limited companies or LLPs
  6. Corporate Finance specialists: Are you sure you have the experience to ensure clients get the best deal yourself?
  7. Customs Duty specialists: One of those topics which doesn’t come up often enough to build up expertise in-house
  8. Employment lawyers: Clients may ask for your thoughts but again you’re not qualified to give legal advice
  9. Family lawyers: As above
  10. Financial advisers: It’s funny how clients assume that their accountant can give them financial advice. But if you’re not regulated to do so, wouldn’t you prefer to recommend someone you trust to do this?
  11. Finance providers: You could scour the market yourself when clients need funding or focus on what you do best
  12. Fund raising expertise: As above
  13. HR consultants: Smaller employers frequently need advice on recruitment, retention, reward, redundancy and retirement related issues
  14. IHT specialists: Where the sums are large and you don’t have the up-to-date knowledge of what still works and what doesn’t or how to arrange IHT efficient trusts 
  15. Insolvency specialists: For when clients need someone to represent them when major customers go bust or for when clients need advice and you don’t want to invest in them any more
  16. Insurance providers: You could leave clients to find their own providers or you could recommend someone good
  17. IR35 contract specialists:There’s a huge difference between advising on the principles and resolving challenges by HMRC
  18. Mortgage brokers: Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to recommend someone you trust?
  19. Payroll providers: If you’re not doing this in-house then who would you prefer employer clients to use?
  20. Pension advisers: Again, leave it to chance or recommend someone you trust?
  21. Property lawyers: You probably know of clients who have had good experiences and some who have had bad experiences, so you know who to recommend
  22. R&D specialists: Where the sums are large enough or the situation is complex everyone might be more comfortable with a specialist advising and negotiating the claims with HMRC
  23. Tax investigation specialists:  Especially cases involving COP8 or COP9 or where you find out a client has been lying to you and has significant undeclared tax liabilities
  24. US tax returns: New clients of US origin will appreciate an introduction to someone to cover this side of things
  25. Will writing services: It’s all very well encouraging clients to ensure they have up-to-date wills but who’s going to write these for them?

This list is not intended to be exhaustive. Who have you collaborated with and how has this benefitted your practice and your clients?

Mark Lee is consultant practice editor of AccountingWEB. As a speaker and mentor his focus is on helping accountants to become more successful. He also facilitates The Inner Circle group for accountants and is chairman of the Tax Advice Network of independent tax specialists who provide support to smaller practices.

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Replies (38)

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By johnjenkins
30th Mar 2015 16:27

I'm thinking of sending

my staff on a midwifery course, so that if a lady client should find her "waters" breaking whilst in my offices, my Associate and assistant would be able to offer the correct expertise.

Mark, I find your article (not you) deeply offensive and insulting of my intelligence. Do you honestly believe that Accountants in practice would even think of giving pension advice? 

Come on Mark, you can do a lot better than this.

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Mark Lee headshot 2023
By Mark Lee
26th Jul 2015 08:44

Sorry John

We've had this discussion before. Some readers tell me that they find our repeated 'discussions' entertaining. And they wonder how I remain so patient with someone who seems unaware of what's really going on in accountancy practices around the UK.

We have previously established that you are in no need of the insights or advice I share in my articles here. That's fine. I would be astonished if everyone agreed with everything I write. 

Having met you at a recent conference I can tell you have many years of experience under your belt. No doubt you are at the top of your game although you seem to have plenty of time on your hands to offer very prompt critiques of my regular articles here. I'm pleased for you.

I write for those accountants who want to be more successful. Not all readers are qualified. Many have limited experience and many are fed up of being told all the things they 'must' do before they will feel more successful. I offer ideas, insights and advice drawn from many years of experience and my regular conversations with accountants in practice around the UK including those I am mentoring to achieve greater success.

It is inevitable that some topics about which I write and some of my suggestions will resonate with some readers more than with others. 

Mark

ps: I haven't replied to your question about pensions advice as it doesn't seem to relate to anything I said in the article.

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By johnjenkins
30th Mar 2015 17:30

@Mark

If you write articles prepare to be criticised, just as I am prepared to have my comments blown out of the water.

Thank you for the belly comment. That is years of collaboration. I don't think we can ever reach the top of our game. That's one reason I comment on this site. This is the sort of site where ideas are born.

Pensions No20 in your exhaustive list. Not liking with some things that are going on in our profession is not the same as being unaware, Mark.

Don't flatter yourself too much, Mark, I comment on many other posts.

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Mark Lee headshot 2023
By Mark Lee
30th Mar 2015 17:50

Pensions

Not sure I agree that anyone who writes articles sets themselves up to be criticised online - especially repeatedly. But the facility exists so I don't complain. I can disagree though.

Mind you, I rarely encounter much criticism from anyone else which tells me a great deal too.

Pensions - your first comment asked if I honestly believe that Accountants in practice would even think of giving pension advice? No 20 on my list doesn't assume that they would. I am suggesting that rather than leave clients to find someone themselves that accountants might prefer to recommend someone of their own choosing.

Mark

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
30th Mar 2015 18:33

Description?

Collaborate?

I would have thought refer would have been a better description?

Anyway its similar.

I often refer clients to an IFA I know (and who is also a client), no monetary gain, I just know he's good and will have the clients best interests in mind.

I refer clients to a local bookkeeper in some instances, this works well as I get work referred to me from him.

I've also referred several clients to other clients where they have needed a particular service - asset finance, invoice finance, debt collection, web design, SEO, property rental, recruitment, will writing to name a few. That's one of the benefits of having a good mix of clients, when a question is asked "Do you know anyone who does xxx" I'll often be able to say yes and recommend someone.

I have access to tax and employment law specialists through the fee protection I provide to clients on a whole of practice basis.

Not so sure I'd want to collaborate on a formal basis though.

Overall though I agree that if your clients see as their 'go to' person (I hate that term) it increases your credibility and worth to them.

 

 

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 10:48

Can't all be

perfect can we, Mark.

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By Donald6000
31st Mar 2015 11:41

Rhubarb and yet more rhubarb

Your list of about 30 specialisations - some of these could be dealt with by any adequately qualified accountant.

 

Obviously you don't think any of us are quite up to it. In which case you have a very limited view of our profession. Either that or you don't think that any of us can read books.

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Replying to NYB:
Mark Lee headshot 2023
By Mark Lee
31st Mar 2015 11:55

@Donald6000

Donald6000 wrote:

Your list of about 30 specialisations - some of these could be dealt with by any adequately qualified accountant.

Obviously you don't think any of us are quite up to it. In which case you have a very limited view of our profession. Either that or you don't think that any of us can read books.

I agree that some could be dealt with by suitably qualified accountants. Not many though.

Equally, as I say in the article, many larger firms have specialists to deal with such situations. Smaller firms can try and do everything themselves, can engage a specialist on staff or on contract , can introduce clients to a third party or can leave clients to find someone themselves.

I am sorry you feel your conclusion is 'obvious'. I don't think anything of the sort and apologise that my article gave you that impression.

Mark

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Donald6000
31st Mar 2015 14:43

Rhubarb and more rhubarb part 2

In which case what you are implying is that the qualifications and accounting qualifications which are held by most accountants are precious little good and should be disregarded.

Mos ACCA and ACA qualifications include some of the specialisations you are saying should be referred out. In which case, there is no point in getting the qualification in the first place, is there?

Basically what you are saying is that accountants are quite useless and need to refer clients elsewhere for the most basic of services. Something which I had long suspected anyway. Thanks for concerning my suspicions.

 

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By Mark Lee
31st Mar 2015 11:56

'Apology' accepted John

I agree. None of us is perfect.

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 12:02

I also

accept your apology that your article gives the impression of the "obvious", which actually was why I posted in the first place.

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By raybackler
31st Mar 2015 12:12

Let's not attack Mark

I read the article and was not offended at all.  I have referred clients to most of these external professions where it is in their best interest to get specialist advice or I consider it beyond my capabilities to advise.  Mark is right that it is sometimes easy to fob clients off rather than recognise that you can both gain out of a referral.  Many reading this forum are not as experienced and you can often tell from the type of questions asked from start ups etc.  johnjenkins is clearly very experienced and I do trust his opinions having read many of them, but then again I also enjoy Mark's articles.  There is room for both of you on this forum.

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By nickja
31st Mar 2015 12:18

Why do some people.....

Is it not the case that the most important thing a professional accountant needs to know is what he or she can't do?

I read Mark's prognostications because they provoke a little thought.    Some of those thoughts I find relevant/helpful, some I do not.    But I'm utterly amazed that some posters react so badly to Mark's post.   I didn't detect a single word in it from which anything other than a positive desire to be helpful could be a reasonable conclusion.

 

 

 

 

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By Sheepy306
31st Mar 2015 12:25

Specialisms

A good article I thought and it's interesting seeing all the various specialisms written down, a reminder perhaps of where accountants CAN help their clients more than the usual compliance work, it got me thinking, which is probably the point of the article.

I consider myself an 'adequately qualified accountant' and for that very reason I wouldn't dream of tackling the majority of those areas listed . Not only would I not enjoy it, I would need to do an awful lot of research, it's unlikely to be an effective use of my time/recovery, ACCA and my PII would hang me out to dry if I messed up and to be honest there's people who would simply do a far better job than me.

Like KA I also refer work to other clients or people that I know (no commission expected or agreed), however I always put a large verbal disclaimer that I can't guarantee the work of 3rd parties, sometimes I feel that it's almost better not to refer work than to refer it to someone who messes things up, which then has the potential to sour our previous good relationship. It's for this same reason that I would never sign up to some of the well-known breakfast networking groups, where everyone is expected to refer work to the only relevant person in the room. It would probably take me a year and several social evenings out with that person before I was comfortable to refer work on that basis.

I would suggest that the 'practical' difference between 'refer' and 'collaborate' is that when you refer work you effectively wash your hands of that work onto someone else, when you collaborate then you stay involved in the matter somehow, either by staying in the loop on all communication or by pretending to offer that service in-house (e.g. white-label services).

There's something to be said for each method, personally I stick to what I'm good at. For example, we're about to lay solid wood flooring on the ground floor of our house, it's within my knowledge, I'm good at DIY, I can watch the youtube video's, we've previously floor-boarded our attic office and have all the tools, however at present it's not a good use (financially) of my time, my weekends are valuable time with the family, and a professional would do a far neater and quicker job. In my mind the same logic applies.

Overall I thought Mark was quite clear with his message, he differentiated large and small firms. I also realise that there are some people who have a particular background or interest in a specialism may feel that they are able to offer that advice rather than outsource the work, that may be the case with JohnJenkins, for example. And that is absolutely fine.

Anyone who has provided expert witness services though will be fully aware of the considerable dangers of making comments or provide advice on anything that isn't within your particular expertise, I apply this concept throughout my work, possibly to be on the safe side.

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By RandDTaxUK
31st Mar 2015 12:30

R&D - needs to be considered higher - as you probably won't know

I agree with the sentiment. But the comment "larger claims" assumes a non-specialist adviser can spot what should be a larger claim.

Even some alleged specialists in large firms cannot, so best to check!

Examples - all my uplifts

Medium sized firm - reviewing SME for years found initially £0 and on prompting £16k eligible - increased to average £1.8 million per annum

Top 10 Firm reviewing SME - initially found £0 on prompting found £50k per annum that was "not worth their bother" - just undertaken their 6th year at an average of £2 million per annum

Top 10 Firm reviewed large co's internal claims for years - concurred £300k per annum - increased to average £200 million per annum 

Two top 10 firms reviewing large co for years - found between zero and £5m per annum increased to over £20 million per annum

You need to check - But you need it checked by the right people!  This is not an advert - I am oversubscribed as it is.

 

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ghm
By TaxTeddy
31st Mar 2015 12:59

I'm supporting Mark on this

What he describes is exactly what I do.

I recognise my limitations - and stick to what I do well. So when these other issues come up I refer the client to somone trusted. In my case I mostly refer to Baker Tilly who are geared up to support small practices and are happy to keep me in the loop.

So the client gets the best advice and hopefully I earn their respect for putting them in the hands of an expert.

The only part I fall down on is with financial advice - after 20 years, still haven't found an IFA I would trust.

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By David Winch
31st Mar 2015 13:32

What? No Sales and Marketing Specialists?

Give us a break, Mark!

#26 Sales and Marketing specialists

It's pretty likely that a majority of every Accountant's clients could gain by improving their selling and marketing.  It's just as unlikely that expert Accountants are also Sales and Marketing experts.  And it's highly unlikely I'd ever think of offering my clients Accountancy advice myself - I'd recommend an Accountant.  So why not think of working together occasionally in this area too?

I recently gave the 'other' David Winch some advice on his promotional video.  Here's what he said https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/group-thread/video-feedback-lessons-learned

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Replying to alfredpennypinch:
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By RandDTaxUK
31st Mar 2015 13:50

But they are not expected to be - they are on the rest

David,

I would grant you that most accountants are not sales and marketing specialists - but they are also not the place clients go to in order to find sales and marketing.  They are the places they expect to find at least most of the other 25.

Or (friendly joke) was this a marketing specialist ploy to get exposure of your skill set, no matter what the subject!

Kind regards

Nigel

 

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Replying to moneymanager:
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By David Winch
31st Mar 2015 17:36

I Wouldn't Either!

Nigel, I completely agree with you that clients wouldn't go to their Accountant for Sales and Marketing advice.

But if they went for Accountancy advice and the Accountant realised they also needed Sales and Marketing help, what then?

I go to the opticians to have my eyes tested and possibly to get new glasses.  But if their examination revealed the early symptoms of diabetes and they referred me to a specialist in that field, how could I be anything but grateful?  They'd have taken a holistic interest in my good health and well being.

Shouldn't we all do something similar for all our clients?

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Replying to leshoward:
By Donald6000
31st Mar 2015 18:36

I wouldn't either

What I am getting from this conversation is that accountants can't actually do the job. What accountants are signing up to is doing as little as possible.

No wonder this country is in such chaos.

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Replying to leshoward:
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By RandDTaxUK
31st Mar 2015 21:00

Surely suggesting alternatives is different than collaborating

David,

I intended my point to be that Mark has provided a list of items that accountants could and perhaps should collaborate with specialists to provide better service to the clients.

​If I were to note a client was not getting the exposure their capabilities deserved then I think I too would suggest some marketing advice might be needed.

But it wouldn't then be something I would be collaborating on or as I saw this proposing of outsourcing of what might be deemed to be part of an "accountancy skill set" to specialists. 

Marketing recommendation wouldn't be collaboration any more than it would be if they were to comment on running their car fleet and I were to say "I have just had a good deal on business rentals from XX car manufacturer".   That is not really 'collaborating/ in the sense of the article, just my opinion.

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 13:45

@TaxTeddy

You're spot on and therein lies my beef. It's what Accountants in practice do. It's part of our ethos. So to be told that's what we could be doing leaves me thinking that there are Accountants out there that really don't know what Accounting is all about.

First Choice Insurance Consultants. George Groves 01438 740340. You won't meet a more genuine person or a more helpful team. No, I don't get commission.

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 13:54

There's a few

marketing people that like following Mark's articles.

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
31st Mar 2015 14:17

You're not alone Mark!

If you can't say something positive JJ then say nothing at all please.  I am not attempting to subvert your right to free speech but constant carping is a pain in the [***].

Whilst I have a "third party services" list which ties in nearly 1 to 1 with Mark's I don't have an IHT specialist on it and this could benefit quite a few clients.  I have a forex broker on it, this one has saved clients a total of about £10k in the past 5 years through avoiding the big bank's rip-oof charges.

Back in 2009 when I set up my business Mark's list would have been invaluable.

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 14:41

@mr. mischief

What is this site for? The Mark Lee appreciation society? Marketing specialists stage for spiel?

Perhaps it might be for Accountants (clue- accountingweb) to make comments, post threads, agree or disagree with articles.

If Mark's list doesn't come natural to Accountants in practice then they shouldn't be in practice. Is that positive enough for you? The business world need to know that when they go and see an Accountant they will get sound advice, that's why the Accountancy profession has remained at the top. Just look what has happened to the banking system. Look what has happened to HMRC. All the people with knowledge are no longer in the right job. I would really hate that to happen to our profession.

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By Sheepy306
31st Mar 2015 14:57

Specifics

@Donald6000 - out of curiousity which of the list do you regard as the 'most basic of services' and which do you (for example) have the necessary skills, expertise and qualifications to deal with yourself? I assume you'll be ruling out any of the regulated areas, e.g. pensions, legal, mortgage, insurance, insolvency etc. If you don't want to comment about yourself then how about the specific ones that you think a 'typical' accountant should know?

@JJ - as with most professions (and non-professions), there will always be those who perhaps are lacking in skills, knowledge, experience or development in what is a changing market. Would you agree that if nothing else, that this article is useful in educating those people and helping them to realise their weaknesses and perhaps identifying areas for improvement?

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By Donald6000
31st Mar 2015 15:20

Sheepy306

Thank you for your comments.

 

I don't practise anymore for money by the way; I do voluntary work and advise people.

 

In my career, I am an ex Revenue officer, therefore I do tax. I have done US tax and other nations taxation systems whilst working for good firms. I have also done company secretarial. I am legally qualified to Diploma of English Law standard (Open university) and could therefore make a confident stab at both courts representation and advocacy and I could prepare and have prepared cases, ie for landlords including money claims and eviction processes. I have knowledge of Inheritance Tax. I can prepare accounts. I can prepare computerised and manual tax returns. I have done insolvency cases in association with licensed insolvency specialists.

 

These are the reasons why I am turning round and looking aghast at what it is that accountants are supposed not to be able to do because they don't feel that they need to do them or cannot be asked to go into the library and read the books, or get more qualifications. While I am at it, let's scrap the accountancy examinations until and unless the people taking them can do the jobs.

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 15:53

@sheepy306

I'm not so sure I like or agree with where you are going, although you have made the point well. Too well, in fact. To know that there are people in practice that need the substance of Mark's article to be able to advise business properly makes me shudder.

Please tell me what is changing in our market. Either a cash book or computerised system, correct data has still to be inputted Do not believe all the hype that these marketing gurus keep throwing at you. The only REAL thing that has changed is HMRC. They have got rid of people with knowledge and they would like to get rid of Accountants with knowledge. Eventually we will take over the admin of HMRC and they will be exterminated.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
By Donald6000
31st Mar 2015 16:14

JohnJenkins

John you are spot on right.

 

In my HMRC district I was the only one with repayments claims specialism and knowledge of minature PAYE schemes (nannies, domestics, etc). They got rid of me absolutely years ago (30 years ago in fact). Since when I have been able to get accountancy qualifications and legal qualifications and am still an adviser. They won't get rid of me whatever they do and I suspect others feel the same. There is no software that can compensate for the brains of a properly skilled accountant with polymath abilities.

This is all to do with deskilling the UK workforce so that we can all be little [***] and zero hours contract workers. Welcome to the UK of the near future.

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By johnjenkins
31st Mar 2015 17:53

You don't need

to go anywhere for sales and marketing advice. Just wait for the phone to ring. At least one of your nuisance calls in a day will be just that. The amount of times I could have saved pounds just by saying yes please, and the beauty of it is they don't even know my circumstances. Now that's magic.

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
31st Mar 2015 18:43

Grumpy old men

Now that's something worth watching/listening too.

;o)

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
31st Mar 2015 20:12

A concrete example

This is just one example from the list, but in my view it applies generically to most of the list.

I often get clients where the previous accountants have overlooked capital allowances, typically on integral features.  My specialist on the list is C A Tax Solutions Limited. All new clients get the list, all existing ones get an updated version twice a year.

When I identify historic capital we can claim, I offer clients the option of me doing it or C A Tax doing it.  But their minimum fee is £2k, so for small claims it is a no-brainer they opt for me doing it.

The largest recent claim was £85k and I advised the client that they were free to choose me, but I felt the specialist surveyor / valuer report from C A tax might carry more weight albeit at higher fee cost.  The client chose that option.

No doubt the knockers will find some major flaw in all of this, should possibly feel I should just have taken a punt on the £85k one myself, banked the fee and said nothing about C A Tax.

Fair enough.  I feel I offered the client a choice.  In my view the work C A did would pretty much stop any thought of an enquiry stone dead before it even got started.  Maybe my punt would also, but there again maybe not.

 

 

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By RandDTaxUK
31st Mar 2015 21:16

Agree with Mr Mischief

I get quite a few collaborative referrals from advisers, though most of mine are client to client but some through advisers.

In general the ones that are consistent in eligibility level and potentially comfortable for the advisers to do once the level is set, I simply get up to date.  The client then decides us or their accountant going forward, most stick with me.

Typically it depends on how much we increased the claim in the first place and the value of the potential risk of it being anywhere near that wrong again in the future.

If I have increased a claim 10 fold over a non-specialist then they will likely stick with me if the fee is a fraction of this.    If I had simply increased it by 10%, (such as the smaller CAs mentioned by Mr M ) then it typically would not be a client that would represent a good opportunity cost for me.

This is actually how it also worked within the Big4 where I operated R&D Tax. We were supposed to do all R&D claims, in practice some partners did not refer their clients believing they could do as good a job as the specialist team, This was rarely if ever true and those where they were close were far outweighed by those they would have missed by a mile.

 

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By johnjenkins
01st Apr 2015 10:23

@mr. mischief

Had your post been today I would have thought he won't catch many out.

"I often get clients where the previous Accountants have overlooked capital allowances".

@Kent. I think I would rather be a "grumpy" old Accountant who is good at his job than one of the "younger" Echalons who overlook CA's.

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Replying to moboffsol:
By Donald6000
01st Apr 2015 14:30

Misc matters replying to John

johnjenkins wrote:

Had your post been today I would have thought he won't catch many out.

"I often get clients where the previous Accountants have overlooked capital allowances".

@Kent. I think I would rather be a "grumpy" old Accountant who is good at his job than one of the "younger" Echalons who overlook CA's.

 

Donald replies:

An accountant who overlooks capital allowances - Yeah right.

I am a grumpy weird old man - what of it?

 

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By AndrewV12
01st Apr 2015 11:11

Accountants

I have not met many Accountants who say they cannot do a task or job, most Accountants over reach, but it does not matter they never get punished by Clients, they know to much about thier clients, and HMRC are worse at identifying poor accountants. 

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
01st Apr 2015 16:01

Simple

A wise man knows he is not perfect whereas a fool knows he is perfect.

Whenever I get a client whose business owns a commercial freehold property, I ask the accountants in a handover letter what they have claimed for integral features where this is not leaping out of the balance sheet or tax computation.

Very often the answer is nothing.  Cue a claim for 10% to 30% of the value of the building depending on its nature, which generally results in a significant tax repayment and hence no reason for the new client to wonder if the switch was the right thing to do.

On every single occasion so far, the previous accountant had been qualified for at least 25 years and quite simply, in my view, not kept up to date and "gone to sleep" on capital allowances.

And don't even get me started on research and development tax credits!

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Donald6000
01st Apr 2015 16:07

Reprise: Fools and wise men

mr. mischief wrote:

A wise man knows he is not perfect whereas a fool knows he is perfect.

Whenever I get a client whose business owns a commercial freehold property, I ask the accountants in a handover letter what they have claimed for integral features where this is not leaping out of the balance sheet or tax computation.

Very often the answer is nothing.  Cue a claim for 10% to 30% of the value of the building depending on its nature, which generally results in a significant tax repayment and hence no reason for the new client to wonder if the switch was the right thing to do.

On every single occasion so far, the previous accountant had been qualified for at least 25 years and quite simply, in my view, not kept up to date and "gone to sleep" on capital allowances.

And don't even get me started on research and development tax credits!

 

No, what you are saying is that the accountants have been dummies, or have no heard of CPD, or who are not proper accountants at all. That's not the same as outsourcing. If I got such a client, I'd make damn sure that I was on the ball about C.A's, But then being ex Revenue, I would be ashamed if I did not do this.

No I am not perfect; I just try to do my best.

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