Lazy accountants cost small firms £1.8bn

Sloppy, short-sighted accountants are making costly mistakes and harming small businesses, according to a new report authored by Mark Wickersham and Steve Pipe.

The study by The Accountants Club found that accountants frequently make mistakes including:
  • not considering incorporation for sole traders
  • allocating illegal dividends
  • failing to claim capital allowances properly
  • not claiming R&D tax credits
  • failing to undertake inheritance tax planning
  • not reviewing tax credit eligibility
The report says there are two types of client: "overlooked" clients and "valued" clients, and that there are many instances where partners lavish outstanding service on a handful of favoured clients, while at the same time cutting budgets so drastically on the affairs of other clients that service is inevitably compromised. 
Mark Wickersham, one of the report's authors, said: "Large parts of the accountancy profession are costing clients a huge £1.8bn in poor advice. The entire profession has to sit up and do something about this as a matter of urgency."

Continued...

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Bob Harper's picture

That is just a fraction

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@Steve and Mark - you are just scratching the surface and lazy or sloppy, short-sighted accountants is being kind.

What about the time clients waste because their accountants leave them struggling with no or the wrong financial systems? How about accountants charging higher compliance fees than necessary because the accountants lets their clients do poor bookkeeping? Our research shows 5-10 hours (circa £500 fees) can be cut from every job - that's another £2 billion.

But, here is the killer - what about the hassle, stress and lost profit their clients suffer because the accountant doesn't offer any business advice? 

My guess is you need to add a few noughts on the end. Business owners need/deserve an alternative choice to lazy firms.

Bob Harper

Alternative Accountants

I would add my agreement to the above...    1 thanks

justsotax | | Permalink

however, I like to sit back and just consider things as a whole....clearly there are a number of 'advisers' who provide less than a satifactory service BUT perhaps we just need to cast the net a little wider....

 

1) Given what appears to be substandard work by accountants should pressure be put on the relevant bodies to ensure as part of the qualifaction these matters are addressed - as cleary it isn't working.

2) We should also consider the part govenment supported business support agencys provide - often concerned only that they receive there fee rather than prepare business owners for the big step of running a business and wearing all of the appropriate hats (sales/marketing/bookkeeper etc)

3) Of course clients are not perfect either (no matter how lond you sit down with them) - some just never learned - but all require our services (no matter how small) - it therefore follows that sometimes these type of clients cannot afford the bigger fees and therefore end up with a substandard service in part reflected by the fee they are willing to pay.

 

I have seen both Steve and Mark talk about subject and would wholly agree with the sentiment - however the use of numbers in this context (as with many areas) can be shaped to suit and therefore are not always that useful (eg how much money do accountants save clients on the whole....millions....and perhaps not always in the most ethical,moral, or socially responsible way?!).

stevepipehome's picture

A few more details on the findings from one of the authors

stevepipehome | | Permalink

As one of the report’s authors I would like to make the following key points…

The bad news: the depressing truth behind the £1.8billion headline

I would urge readers not to get too hung up about the £1.8 billion estimate. What are far more important are the findings behind that headline… that when asked about how well their clients’ previous accountants had handled their affairs, the practitioners in our study admitted that they find errors (i.e. where the previous accountant had actually got things wrong) in 45% of cases, and find omissions (i.e. where the previous accountant had missed something out) in 42% of cases. Even more alarmingly still, in over a third of all these cases, the new accountants regard these as “major” mistakes.

Clearly these are not findings that the profession can afford to ignore.

The good news: the 27% of firms that are “Stars” are showing how to do things properly

As it says above, the first time research also reveals that, according to accountants themselves, the UK has a ‘two track accountancy profession’, where 27% of practicing firms are ‘Stars’ and 73% are ‘Laggards’.

Firms that are ‘Stars’ grow at 20% or more a year, have a better client base and lock up, deliver better client service, feel less threatened by cheap accountants and are generally happier with their success and results. And yes, the stars also spot a higher proportion of mistakes.

For the ‘Laggard’ firms and their clients, on the other hand, the picture is very different and very much worse, with widespread under-performance and under-achievement.

The really good news, though, is that by identifying what makes the Stars so successful, the research provides a blueprint for other firms that want to replicate their success.

For example, Star firms use a wider range of non-financial Key Performance Indicators to measure and manage their businesses, share those key numbers with more of their team, have more frequent team meetings, use more comprehensive engagement letters, give money back guarantees on more of their work, and collect more of their fees by direct debit.

The full report is available from www.myaccountantsclub.co.uk or as part of a bundle of all my research on www.stevepipe.com

Steve Pipe FCA

www.stevepipe.com

 

PS  For the record the report is called "Your blueprint for a better accountancy practice"

 

Old Greying Accountant's picture

Aren't statistics wonderful things?    2 thanks

Old Greying Acc... | | Permalink

Bob Harper wrote:

@Steve and Mark - you are just scratching the surface and lazy or sloppy, short-sighted accountants is being kind.

What about the time clients waste because their accountants leave them struggling with no or the wrong financial systems? How about accountants charging higher compliance fees than necessary because the accountants lets their clients do poor bookkeeping? Our research shows 5-10 hours (circa £500 fees) can be cut from every job - that's another £2 billion.

Bob Harper

Alternative Accountants

Or, scrap that sweeping assumption and turn it round, accountancy firms are spending 5 - 10 hours more than they need per client, so loss is @ £500 per client to the accountant, not the client!

 

Bob Harper's picture

One-to-one research

Bob Harper | | Permalink

Old Grey Accountant - no assumptions, the post is based on years of speaking with firms all over the UK. I haven't counted but I would expect there are 1,000 in-depth interviews.

Accountants may be experiencing write-off but I am afraid their clients are paying for their ineffectiveness. We know 99% of accountants record time because at the end of the day they base their fees on the time it takes to do the job. So, if the job takes longer than it needs to their clients are paying more than they need to.

Bob Harper

Alternative Accountants

 

ShirleyM's picture

If they are lazy, then what's the point of this article?    5 thanks

ShirleyM | | Permalink

If they are lazy ... they won't bother reading this article, will they?

Or is this article really targetted at accountants that are not lazy?

I love AWeb, but it seems that more and more articles and blogs, and many of the responses, are nothing but sales pitches disguised as 'information'.

... or maybe I am just in a bad mood 'cos I don't like being described as a laggard .. and I would never assume I am a 'star'!

I am also sloppy and short sighted, 'cos I never insist on my clients using specific software and getting their bookkeeping 100% accurate.

No wonder I am in a bad mood .... I thought I was pretty good until I read this!

EDIT: On re-reading the article ... I am a star :)  ... I pick up many mistakes made by other accountants ... but I have been known to make mistakes, too! Now where does that leave me?

 

zarathustra's picture

Wrong assumptions    2 thanks

zarathustra | | Permalink

I wonder what proportion of the 40% of clients are themselves lazy?

Not open to being helped, not wanting to shoulder more responsibility for their bookeeping.

They have a bad experience with HMRC, blame the accountant and move on.

Dont get me wrong, I am not making excuses for lazy or incompetent accountants, but it aint a one way street.

Bob Harper's picture

Perspective

Bob Harper | | Permalink

Zarathustra - you can look at it like that or you can take the view that accountants have not developed effective processes and skills to get clients motivated.One view makes accountants look weak, the other empowers them and puts them in control.

What I find interesting is that accountants get their clients to go through the ML process. Why? Because there is a negative consequence if they don't. But, with a time based billing mentality there is a positive consequence for letting clients keep poor books. The job takes longer and accountants can justify to themselves the fee. But, there are new players (and there will be more) who will eat away at this www.crunch.co.uk is an example.

Crunchers are going to make a play of this research in 2012 and it will be interesting to see how business owners respond to being over charged and under advised. My guess is that will not be happy.

Bob Harper

Alternative Accountants

ShirleyM's picture

lol    1 thanks

ShirleyM | | Permalink

You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

It is still a horse that earns it's keep, so if you want to discard that horse then pass it over to me, please.  :)

I agree with you Shirley...    1 thanks

justsotax | | Permalink

not that you are a laggard ;-).....but that some client's simply will never fall into the profile that the 'stars' want....which is fine because other accountants will do that work.

The problem I have is that there will be  a number of clients that will not be targets for the star businesses (inabililty to pay for the high level of service/not fit with the accountants target client profile etc) - what about these guys...some will be starters who need this type of support....do we just simply let them rot?

We are not charity cases but remember when you joined that accountants as a junior - did they pay you a qualified persons rate of pay....no....why not.....because you were just starting.....indeed for the first 4-5 years it probably cost the firm a significant amount of money before you become a fee earner for the business.  I am not suggesting you make a loss....but sometimes dealing with a start up business is a similar long term investment, with the potential to earn £1,000s once they have established themselves and indeed require more services..  

 

Bob Harper's picture

Horses for courses

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@Shirley - before you show the horse the water there are things you can do that will make them much more likely to drink. 

@justsotax - I agree, there are accountants who seem happy to spend a lot of time doing things that don't need to be done but that doesn't make it right.

Bob Harper

Accounting Franchise

 

I agree with Shirley...    4 thanks

nick | | Permalink

This forum is becoming more and more about getting a sales pitch in for the authors services.Which is exactly what this report is about.

ryedaleman's picture

Lazy Accountants    4 thanks

ryedaleman | | Permalink

I love AWeb, but it seems that more and more articles and blogs, and many of the responses, are nothing but sales pitches disguised as 'information'.

I agree

If clients are not happy they should vote with their feet

We were told if we did not embrace cloud computing they would put us all out of business

Now its Crunchers we need to be wary of

I remember the Tax Assist Franchise were going to sweep the country

I have never had a hand over where I have looked through the papers and thought everything is perfect but 95% of the time it was down to interpretation and I suspect the same as been said about the ones I have handed over

The majority do the best they can qualified and unqualified based on the information received which is often also not perfect

 

what a load of B*********s    4 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

I just love it when non accountants make these wild statements...then promote the success of the type of services that offer no advice...

If clients want more advice...which we are able to give then they must understand there is a cost to that knowledge..... as Shirley says "you can lead a horse to water"

I am sure I am not alone in saying an awful lot of advice is given for free, but falls on deaf ears !

Not advising sole traders to incorporate ? I Would say many incorporate those that should never have gone anywhere near a limited company....causing all sorts of problems.....Not least of which is the failure to keep proper accounting records resulting in more accountancy time to sort out a God awful muddle (YES THAT'S AS LOSS MAKING WRITE OFF OF VALUABLE TIME !!) How deep an analysis was carried out....of all these sole traders that should have incorporated and purchased software they were incapable of using.

The Cheap as chips versions are very expensive in lost tax and business performance I agree.

By the way the business guru bit we give away for free...but again it depends on whether people listen or not.

 

ShirleyM's picture

@Bob    1 thanks

ShirleyM | | Permalink

@Shirley - before you show the horse the water there are things you can do that will make them much more likely to drink.  

I could tell it how lazy it is not to drink when it has the opportunity! (please excuse the sarcy comment).

The big question is ....  should I persuade a horse that it is thirsty, when in reality it isn't?

 

ummm    1 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

Do these star accountants charge on value added as well.  so you take 5 minutes to save the client £5000 (as we did the other day)... what do you charge them??

There could possibly be an argument that the clients are being overcharged there, compared to a time billing accountant.

I agree all accountants should offer a full range of services and apply the same level of service to all clients.  going on this basis like shirley i am a Star... am i included in the 27%?

 

Bob Harper's picture

New ways

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@Ryedaleman - it's not really about selling Crunchers or AVN but new ideas, new attitudes and new business models. 

It is unlikely the change will come from the existing firms who argue but the new and young who read the posts, think about them and explore new ways of working.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

ryedaleman's picture

Ah Yes    2 thanks

ryedaleman | | Permalink

Ah Yes

AVN Benchmarking

Another item no self respecting Accountant could manage without

 

Bob Harper's picture

The Big Question

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@Shirley - I happen to think persuading clients to keep proper books is 100% ethical and in the client's best interest.

But, by default I think also firms that don't persuade their clients are unethical and not acting in their clients' best interest. However, I have always said that these firms are "unconsciously unethical" because they have been brainwashed by time based billing thinking.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

 

BOb    6 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

I suggest you get yourself a Job in accountancy so you can learn about the real issues....in the real world........rather than trying to demean the accountancy profession.

Now who's going to run a book ?

ShirleyM's picture

Is it 'ethical' to sell services by using fear?    1 thanks

ShirleyM | | Permalink

Who said we didn't encourage clients to keep proper books? I know I have never said that!

I have said I wouldn't insist that my clients become expert bookkeepers and use specific software. There is a difference, but I am not going to try and persuade you that my way is right and your way is wrong.

You do what suits you and I would appreciate it if you allowed me to run my practice my own way .... and please don't use this as an opportunity to make out I am useless and letting my clients down because I don't do it your way!!!!!!!!

I keep saying I am Mrs Grumpy today ... so I'd better leave this thread before I upset anyone further. I am sure others will manage that on my behalf.

 

Bob Harper's picture

Trying

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

@The Black Knight -  it's not the advice that's the problem but the implementation and the underlying issue here is time based billing thinking.

The word "trying" presupposes failure so you keep trying to insult me. I'll take any comments like this as a compliment because I know am touching a nerve. I am heading in the right direction and happy if 99.99% are going the other way.

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

Bob Harper's picture

Trying

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@Shirley - I didn't say use fear although that is one leaver but let me ask you this - is it ethical for doctors to use fear to get clients to stop smoking?

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

Bob Harper's picture

Value focussed

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

Fidodido - if more accountants charged on value there would be more firms searching for value and more firms effective at delivering it.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

Nichola Ross Martin's picture

There are other angles such as investigations    1 thanks

Nichola Ross Martin | | Permalink

Not wishing to get involved in the brawl above (you can't see me but I have donned a crash helmet just in case),  I would just like to point out that we are seeing some pretty grim examples of lazy/sloppy work, but this is coming up in investigations, some involving investigations into professional firms themselves. 

Whether it is over-reliance on estimates, over-egging of provisions or fundamental lack of knowledge - two recurrent examples are firms who claim rent-a-room relief for business use or advise parents to issue shares to minor children without considering the settlement provisions.

However, I would add that the vast majority of firms who contact us are not lazy, in fact quite the opposite. This is why they phone us - they want a bit of mentoring and are trying to be proactive in their advice to clients.

Virtual Tax Support for accountants: www.rossmartin.co.uk

David S Ward's picture

Lazy Accountants    3 thanks

David S Ward | | Permalink

 

I find some of the comment from the authors quite offensive. As a group accountants are strong in some areas and not so strong in others, but I've met virtually none who could be described as lazy and very few who are unethical. 

Incorporation probably makes sense for most businesses in hard number terms but it may not suit the owners of such businesses. A lot of the other issues raised look fairly subjective - e.g. what qualifies as r&d. Yes we should try to get clients to keep proper books but is the problem down to accountants, the clients or most likely the fact that book-keeping just is not all that easy in reality,

Qualified accountants are answerable to their professional bodies in respect of ethics and poor performance and plenty get struck off each year for their transgressions. The vast majority though do their best and care about their clients. 

 

 

Young and New    2 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

Bob you really should not make assumptions.

I am new and young and always look at ways to save clients money tax and help improve their business. But do not belong to AVN or Crunchers.

As mentioned i would say most accountants will advise clients how to keep their books, and offer them a wide range from simplex books, excel templates to cloud systems.. But if the clients has no inclination to do it and will not pay for a bookkeeper to do it, then you get what ever they want to give you.  You can tell them about business records checks, breach of CA2006 etc and it will not make any difference.  Personally all but 1 of clients has changed the way they do their books, or we do them.  There will still be those whio will not change.

There is nothing new about business.. you should be honest, open, keep up to date, deliver a first class service to all clients and not be cheap but copmpetative. If you do that you will retain the clients and add to them. This is not new and is not rocket science. with expected growth of 40-50% this year it works.

Value    1 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

Value to me says over bill the client for something, and when they find out they will leave..

What would you charge in the scenario i mentioned?

I have said before that when quoting i use a mix of time and value...

otherwise i can bill one client £500 and another £1500 for the same service.. if you knew that as a client you would be going elsewhere.

Bob Harper's picture

Not lazy, just ineffective

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@David - you can choose to be offended if you want or look to understand the isue.

I didn't call firms lazy, the ones I come into contact with are very busy and work very hard. But, the fact is many are not effective and I refer to an unethical pricing/business model and the profession as a whole - not to any individual.

@Fidpdido - I agree, most firms do offer advice and options. That is not the point, the fact is most are not effective. The is something new for accountants to consider - a new business model driven by value pricing.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

 

Bob Harper's picture

@Fidpdido - have you ever

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@Fidpdido - have you ever bought a plane ticket? Different prices for different people. 

The issue is not bespoke pricing but charging everyone too much for low value work.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accountancy Franchise

And worse Nichola    2 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Not seen the two you mention, but have seen even simpler stuff with larger amounts....

e.g. Wife's wages not paid or not paid correctly, transitional overlap relief unheard of £32,000 potential lost tax relief, company accounts and tax just wholly incorrect etc etc etc

probably see one a week..... but the issue is still that we are more expensive...

Basically clients get what they pay for ! and some are their own worst enemies when it comes to loosing large amounts of cash.

@ Bob

By the way Bob we do fixed fee....and have lost big time several times fixing stuff that I should have walked away from...the hourly charge out rate would have exceeded the bill ten times over in some cases, spent hours of free too trying to improve their bookkeeping to no avail.

By value billing do you mean on percentage ? which we are prevented from doing because of professional rules..(ethics)

By the way the first rule of selling is not to slag of the customer or his current suppliers !

How Much    2 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

Bob you have still not said how much my scenario would cost the client?  5 minutes work, £5k tax saved.

Low Value Work ?    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Bob Harper wrote:

@Fidpdido - have you ever bought a plane ticket? Different prices for different people. 

The issue is not bespoke pricing but charging everyone too much for low value work.

Bob Harper

So the issue is that accountants are too expensive yes ?

What do you regard as low value work.......Bookkeeping ? Accounts ? Some large fees entail the writing up of a whole years books because of incompetent bookkeeping...saving penalties etc etc and when viewed in that light are extremely good value..

On the contrary some work such as good bookkeeping is very much undervalued.

The new penalty regime may well change current thinking on that matter.

 

Bob Harper's picture

Value

Bob Harper | | Permalink

@The Black Knight - no, value billing does not mean a percentage; that is just one option.

Out of interest, the times I have seen accountants caught out by fixed fees is because of poor scoping and not using change orders.

I am not interested in selling, I call it as I see it - anything else is patronising.

As regards accountants, if anything the issue is that accountants are not expensive enough. They need to value themselves more before clients will.

@Fidodido - I didn't realised I was asked.

What I would charge would depend on many things including the risk factor and what the client would do with the £5,000. But, I would not be thinking about the five minutes it would take and I would offer the client a range of price points, so they could choose a lower cost or higher cost option.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise 

£500 fees cut ...should we run at a loss then Bob ?    2 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Bob Harper wrote:

@Steve and Mark - you are just scratching the surface and lazy or sloppy, short-sighted accountants is being kind.

What about the time clients waste because their accountants leave them struggling with no or the wrong financial systems? How about accountants charging higher compliance fees than necessary because the accountants lets their clients do poor bookkeeping? Our research shows 5-10 hours (circa £500 fees) can be cut from every job - that's another £2 billion.

But, here is the killer - what about the hassle, stress and lost profit their clients suffer because the accountant doesn't offer any business advice? 

My guess is you need to add a few noughts on the end. Business owners need/deserve an alternative choice to lazy firms.

Bob Harper

Alternative Accountants

 

Research ? 5 to 10 hours ?? how long does it take to retrain the book keeper  / client in the skills of book keeping ?  £1,000 ? Now how many have tried this and the bookkeeper still did not understand when left alone ? or perhaps hire in a part time bookkeeper for one day a week £5K per year ? £500 looks like good value.

Perhaps the client should do this and loose time he could have spent earning at what he was best at doing ? The law of competitive advantage ? Is it not ?

And you did say accountants are Lazy ...read above.

And during the posting frenzy you appear to have ditched one trading name and picked up another.....is change exciting ? LOL

fee    1 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

What does it matter what the client does with £5000... it is a tax saving of £5000.  What risk factor is there.. it is simple straight forward advice... no price options as it does not apply.

So what would you charge?

Bob Harper's picture

Names

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

@The Black Knight - if you did charge £1,000 and guaranteed success that could be seen as a good deal as it saves £500 for 20 years, protects the client from HMRC, enables them to use financial data for more effective for business administration (credit control) and probably saves them a lot of time.

Now, when it comes to names, get it right - I didn't call accountants lazy, just ineffective and unconsciously unethical. And, Crunchers is the brand, Alternative Accountants is the category of accountants we have created. 

Bob Harper

Crunchers - the alternative accountants

Bob Harper's picture

Quoting

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

@Fidodido - the value of £5,000 to one person is different to another but as a rule of thumb I'd be thinking 15% to 30%. And, there is risk with all advice, I would want to understand that when quoting. 

Crunchers - accounting franchise

My point    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

is that good advice... is often a judgement call based on your experience and knowledge of the client, there sometimes can be no right or wrong answer....

the same as it is wrong to say all sole traders with profits over £20K should incorporate.

Professional accountants would be prevented from charging by that method....in case the client thought you might claim £5,000 instead of £4,500 to increase your fee !!!

presumably your franchise is not available to qualified accountants ?

Guarantees ?    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

[quote=Bob Harper]

 

@The Black Knight - if you did charge £1,000 and guaranteed success that could be seen as a good deal as it saves £500 for 20 years,

/quote]

No guarantees, because that would still depend on the learning abilities of the Bookkeeper...and how would one assess that with any certainty....with the added problem that the bookkeeper is usually the most poorly paid and undervalued member of staff in the organization.

You can give anyone a title instantly, but it takes many years to train a competent bookkeeper

We have done this a thousand times ! Once in a while we have a success.

Bob Harper's picture

 

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

@The Black Knight - the right answer is what the client thinks is right for them and what they think is mostly driven by the accountant. This is why I refer to processes - how many have good education to their clients. With videos this is now easy and inexpensive.

Are you saying accountants should not be allowed to charge a percentage of the value they create?

Yes, our franchise is open to qualified accountants but there are other qualities needed to get in than letters after your name. By the way, with our segment of micro and small businesses we have chosen the AAT as our recommended professional body and we will provide supporting resources and support around tax.

Bob Harper

The Crunchers Accounting Franchise

you have just overcharged    1 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

Bob you have just massivley overcharged a client who will leave when he realises. As i said there was no, or very very minimal risk with this advice.

Your value method lines your pocket not the clients.  would you not be happy with say £200.  £2400 per hour!!  Client would be happy and you would gain more clients.

Yes i am not a charity, but i would not overcharge a client like that.  I would say that is unethical.

What happens when all your clients ralise you have overcharged them?

Bob Harper's picture

Results

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

@The Black Knight - had you given a guarantee you may have found out how to do it so it worked consistently.

t sounds to me you have tried the same strategy over and over and expected a different result - that is the first sign of insanity!

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

Bob Harper's picture

Choice

Bob Harper | | Permalink

 

Fidodido - one option I'd give the client would be to go to a cheaper accountant like you so if they choose to go with me how would that be unethical?

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accounting Franchise

that's right    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Bob Harper wrote:

Are you saying accountants should not be allowed to charge a percentage of the value they create?

Bob Harper

The AAT are part qualified........

Not me that say's it,..........it is enshrined in our professional rules

Like I said before you need to understand the professional environment in which qualified accountants operate.

You also need to understand that small clients do need quite complex advice and it does help if you are properly trained in those areas.

cheaper £2400 an hour??    1 thanks

Fidodido | | Permalink

But i thought you said we were more expensive and overcharged?!

I would love for you to offer all your clients to come to me for a quote.  I know i am not cheap, or expensive.  I will never quote to win a client on price.

wind up merchant    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

How insulting !

I bet you have an answer for everything....

No......We have adapted and survived and are about ten years ahead !

"There are two things that are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity and I am not sure about the universe" Or something like that ? I will at least attribute it to.

 Albert Einstein

Flash Gordon's picture

I haven't got a track to run on    4 thanks

Flash Gordon | | Permalink

If accountancy is a two-track profession I'm a bit buggered - I wouldn't claim to be a star (far too modest and don't have the self-esteem to believe it) but equally I don't think I'm bad enough to be considered a laggard (though it is an underused word these days). And I wouldn't say I had overlooked clients either (or that many valued ones!) - just average ones that require and demand my attention at assorted occasions. So I think I might just take this article with a pinch of salt.

John Stokdyk's picture

Please calm down and moderate your comments

John Stokdyk | | Permalink

Before we have to do it for you... We were aware when we posted this item that it was likely to "kick off", so please don't live down to our worst expectations.

@Bob Harper and @The Black Knight - you have both successfully wound each other up during the past few hours. Words like "insulting" & "stupidity" are not suitable for what should be a professional debate. And taking over a thread to promote your new organisation is also frowned on. Could we ask that you both step back from the keyboard for a while and let other people have a say.
 

We're getting negative comments from other members about this thread, and if this continues we will have to pull down the thread, which hardly helps the cause of reasoned debate.

So, once again, please abide by the spirit and the letter of the site's community rules

ryedaleman's picture

Kick off it did

ryedaleman | | Permalink

Before we have to do it for you... We were aware when we posted this item that it was likely to "kick off", so please don't live down to our worst expectations.

 

So why let it be aired it is just a commercial anyway

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