You might also be interested in
Replies (18)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
Hey Mark,
A bookkeeper is a bookkeeper because they don't have the expertise that a client is looking for in an advisory capacity. It's no good a client asking questions, then suddenly finds the bookkeeper out of their depth.
Once the bookkeeper gains the expertise they become an Accountant. Hence the difference in wording.
Technology doesn't make a good or better bookkeeper, as it doesn't an Accountant.
Once they have the experience.....they DON'T have to become an a
Once the bookkeeper gains the expertise they become an Accountant. Hence the difference in wording.
Technology doesn't make a good or better bookkeeper, as it doesn't an Accountant.
I beg to differ. I have over 20 years' experience as a bookkeeper. I want to be a bookkeeper and a good one; and that is what I strive to be. I have no desire to become an accountant. A bookkeeper has there place as does an accountant. You are not better because you are an accountant. We have different skills. Let's work together.
Hey John
I presume you're not on holiday, so what's your excuse?
Most of what is written above is equally applicable to Accountants and is repeated at this type of event, the numbers business is changing and the line between Bookkeeper & Accountant is becoming very blurred and will, eventually, vanish as businesses handle more of their own record keeping and bookkeepers shift up a couple of gears.
I've posted this link so many times recently but here goes again, look at what "Bookkeepers" are training in already.
I attended the Birmingham event and spoke to many bookkeepers about the above. A few weeks before I attended another event in Birmingham for accountants, at which identical topics were covered.
What struck me was how much more switched on and enthusiastic the Bookkeepers were to make use of technological advances, and how the majority of the Accountants acted like climate change deniers.
You're right, technology, on its own, doesn't make someone a better anything, but if they make best use of it their time is freed up to enable them to train and develop other skills.
Thank you Paul
I could not make the one in Birmingham. But I know members from the ICB who spoke at the conference said the conference was very informative and excellent .
I am going to The Bookkeepers Summit 2015 London at the Queen Elizabeth two centre were close to 600 are going . I have been going since 2009 . Companies House, HMRC, Xero , Sage, Bright pay . Training providers , pension providers LEBC , FA Simms , receipt bank , Big Red Cloud and many others .
Companies house and the HMRC have been strong supporters at the submits and they attend branch meetings and regional conferences all over the country . Members from the accountants bodies have all spoken at these summits.
It is a dangerous thing to presume bookkeepers do not have the knowledge . Companies House cover everything at the conference they see no difference . John did you ever consider for a minute that there are those who prefer bookkeeping. A bookkeeper knows a business inside out . I think you will find that bookkeepers are fighting back especially when accountants use their figures as if they did the work .
However what is very healthy is when both work together.
Landscaper
I totally agree with you. More than anything companies what their accountants and bookkeepers to work together as you say they are different skill sets.
Landscaper
I totally agree with you. More than anything companies what their accountants and bookkeepers to work together as you say they are different skill sets.
Let me explain my
post a bit better.
I'm certainly not saying that Accountants are better than bookkeepers, but let me say this. An Accountant can do a bookkeepers job but a bookkeeper cannot do an Accountants job. Hence the difference. In fact a lot of bookkeepers don't want to be an Accountant as landscaper and Sarah point out.
@Paul Holiday - what's that? I'm quite happy in my motorhome most weekends, cycling around the countryside.
I do not consider that there is an "emerging role" for bookkeepers because their next step (if they so desire) is, and always has been, to become an Accountant.
Thanks John
Thanks for Clarifying .
However that is not always necessarily the case. My Practice provides both accountant and bookkeeping services but yes I personally much prefer the bookkeeping side of our business as the interaction with the business owners is higher.
Not all accountants can actually do bookkeeping well. I took on 2 new staff who were both ACCA and their bookkeeping was awful and clients rightly complained. I actually had to give the clients credit notes as it was that bad so I did not lose them as good clients. I mean the business owners were furious.
There was no way I could let them even meet a client. I took two weeks off last summer confident nothing would go wrong for the commonwealth games to volunteer . All I said it hit the fan and the buzz I felt was wiped out, so much so I needed a holiday to recover which unfortunately I did not get.
@Sarah
In every walk of life there are varying degrees of good. As a friend used to say "there's no such thing as a bad cup of tea, just some better than others".
Review and Develop
One string we have added is planning sessions with clients using figurewizard to produce forecasts for pretty much everything. It is popular with clients and helps to get some in particular to understand the importance of matters like liquidity and operating cash flow forecasts that we have been trying to get through to them for years.
There is another
point that seems to have been overlooked and that is cost.
Most smaller clients will not be able to afford all this high tech stuff. So it's only for the larger business which would probably have their own in-house Accountant that would deal with cash flows etc.
I'm still not convinced that there is a more "emerging roll" for the bookkeeper.
A few thoughts
Hi John
We have engagements at the minute where firms use us as a stepping stone between their company who as you say are doing their own bookkeeping and who ever they choose to have as their accountant. It makes up about 50% percent of our business . We have one client for over 10 years does just that. He sees both of us as a benefit and feels he gets very different skills sets from both. We have taken on 3 new contracts in the last week of this kind,
On all occasions they are really happy with their chosen accountant but just want something above their own bookkeeping and somewhere in the middle of the Accountant.
John I have days when my Skype never stops or texts which come through our computer. The clients are not demanding but they are happy to pay for the service.
Sorry don't agree with that either
I have worked with many excellent accountants but to claim that could all be bookkeepers is not true I'm afraid. Quite a few were appalling at dealing with the "nitty gritty". I can certainly carry out a number of what you may call accounting tasks but am happy to admit that I certainly am not qualified nor do I know everything and have limitations. However the accountants who I have dealt with (a minority) who couldn't deal with bookkeeping properly were not happy at all with being questioned about errors. Th whole point is that there is a role for both.
If Accountants
are not good at bookkeeping, I suspect they are probably not good Accountants. The analysis that the bookkeeping side of Accountancy provides is the crux of telling you how that business functions.
The Future Of Bookkeeping
Hi There,
Mike what a great article and you are definitely "on the money" so to speak. The way that our whole industry operates is changing and I think this is the best possible opportunity ever to see advisors ( including Bookkeepers, Financial Planners, Personal Bankers & Accountants ) collaborate and work together as a team for the client. We all bring different things to the table.
Bookkeepers are vital to a small business, and I'm not talking about data entry. They are on the "coal-face" of what is going on and the forward thinking ones are NOT doing data entry.( we use Xero www.xero.com & Receipt Bank www.receipt-bank.com ) I have an Accounting & Bookkeeping practice in AU with 10 staff and we have distinct tasks that each team member does. Our Bookkeepers can install POS, provide training in XERO and other software, trouble shoot messy file's and also they have the weekly conversations on benchmarking & KPIs ( using software like Crunchboards - www.crunchboards.com ) with our clients to identify areas that we may need to bring in the Financial Planner, Accountant, Banker or even Insurance Broker. All these parts make up the collective that give the client the best results.
You can check out my business page here: www.powerfinance.net.au & www.archerconsulting.com.au
Times are changing and "The Robots are coming" but as advisors ( no matter what our title is ) we are moving into changing the way we provide our professional services.
I will be speaking at ICB Bookkeeping Summit in October so I look forward to connecting with some of you there.
Here is a link to an article I have written recently on the future of the industry - http://www.digitalfirst.com/2015/05/15/the-robots-are-coming-bookkeepers...
Cheers from AU
All the Best
Mel :-)
I look forward to hearing you
Hi Mel
I look forward to hearing your detailed views on software and uses at the summit but not if if it is about the robots are coming lol . I look forward to technical detail when I go the summit. Hope to meet you at the summit and dinner afterwards if you are attending .
Hi Mel
Interesting article with clear similarities to how it is going in the UK, a couple of observations:
You mention collaboration between "Bookkeepers, Financial Planners, Personal Bankers & Accountants" which, to me, would be indicative of the ideal within medium to large organisations. The vast majority of businesses in the UK are Small or even Micro Entities and these have formed the majority of my client base over many years and, I'm sure this is also the case for the majority on this site.
Ignoring Personal Bankers who, in the UK, sit someway away from their customers (or rather businesses tend to keep them at arm's length), these businesses may, as a maximum, have had an accountant and a bookkeeper, with the Financial Planner being one of these and/or the client.
Not only has automation made the data entry and reporting less onerous but, with the advent of Cloud accounting, the client is, with only basic training, now able to handle a good chunk of the work themselves with the majority of my clients handling over 90% of the basic stuff.
Whether they want it or not, this has, and will, make Bookkeepers & Accountants competitors, rather than collaborators in these small businesses, with many Bookkeepers now undertaking work they'd never have dreamed of doing 10 years ago. It's also telling that in your thread, as well as the bookkeepers conference a few weeks back, talk is now of the benefits of value pricing which has, until recently, been seen as the province of the accountant.
As far as robotics, or further automation is concerned, a disproportionate amount of time in record keeping is still devoted to assessing the nature of a cost and processing the suppliers' bill through the system. The advent of PDF and scans cut out the paper handling aspects and then systems like Receipt Bank have cut out even more wasted time but it is daft, in this day and age, that a human in the supplier company prompts a computer to generate a bill that is then sent to another human who then assesses and supervises the entry into another computer's software, even if with the help of 3rd party software.
As countries adopt standard tagging classifications the day must come when supplier & customer systems deal with each other directly (as they do within Xero users via the Network Key function). This will make the assessment of specific transactions (as in your car example) unnecessary, leaving even less mundane stuff for the bookkeeper/accountant to do.
PS: Hope to see you at the ICB do.