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There's a summary of the old charter in the annual charter report (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/fil...) which may help.
Old charter from the government web archive:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140104211445/https://www.gov...
Is there anything in it about picking up the phone ?
..probably not as its all going Digital and no doubt we will be shouting into the phones more to get the lady to realize what department we want only for them to have no idea what the call is about when we do get through !!
What is the point?
According to the online business dictionary, a "charter", when referring to an organisation, is a document that defines or mandates its function and lays down rules for its conduct or governance. It is only worth something if the organisation that prepares it intends to stick to it. This document is not really intended to achieve that. It is primarily intended to tell taxpayers what they MUST do when dealing with HMRC.
The State was created to serve the populace ad not the other way around. It is about time taxpayers told HMRC what they expect from it and have real powers of redress when HMRC fails to deliver. The penalties for failure are all borne by the taxpayer and as we all know HMRC never admits to making a mistake or for failure to deliver its service promise unless held to account by a statutory body and even then there is no downside; it's representatives do not even seem to get embarrassed.
Today's Service on HMRC's website
All this spin from HMRC.
While accessing their website just now I had to wait 5-10 seconds for every 'click' I made to navigate round the Self Assessment service.
Then I got:
This HM Revenue & Customs web service is currently unavailable. We apologise for this inconvenience. Some of our online services may be available, please follow the link below to access them.
Perhaps if their management got the basics right and stopped lying to MPs, tax practitioners would give them some respect. The boots on the ground at HMRC do deserve our respect for working in the most politicised department at Whitehall
HMRC altering tax payers charter
One day an HMRC boss visited a school and gave a talk to the kids about what to expect from HMRC when they became taxpayers. Afterwards their teacher asked them to write an essay on what they though about the talk. Little Jonny wrote just this: " HMRC are bastards!" The teacher being somewhat upset contacted HMRC and asked if someone could have Jonny for a day and give him a tour of a typical HMRC office , give him lunch and sweets etc. This they duly did and the teacher asked Jonny for an updated essay. He wrote "HMRC are CRAFTY BASTARDS" !
date ?
For years in Working Together groups we asked HMRC to date all documents, and state on them when they were last revised. In this way a practitioner could download guidance and demonstrate s/he has followed it in the case of any dispute with HMRC.
This undated revised Charter demonstrates very clearly that HMRC is not at all interested in a level playing field, The fact HMRC changed it and did not bring this to everyone's attention just demonstrates they are not really interested in providing "a helpful, efficient and effective service", and certainly show the taxpayers no respect whatsoever. (Items 1 & 2 of our "rights".)
One Wonders Why?.........
HMRC and all Government Departments waste so much time on all this smoke and mirrors and "committees"?
Loved this bit!
"Young was swift to downplay the changes, writing that the alterations maintained the spirit of the 2009 version. “This has been fiercely debated with HMRC but I was always clear that the underlying concepts in the 2009 version remain absolutely relevant today and while they might need to be more clearly articulated there was never any need for them to be changed fundamentally.”
Neatly avoiding stating he and his cronies represented the ICAEW incestuous relationship, via CCAB and FRC et al, of representing the body of opinion from Mega Corp plc © (Copyright PDD(R)Ltd 2002 and 2015) but not the 99% of UK SME businesses!
When all that was needed was a short statement, such as:-
HMRC have redefined our relationship with all our devoted and loyal customers.
In future in any case where HMRC suspects a "customer" has not properly declared income or gains, HMRC will demand assessed taxes from said customer, in direct opposed perspective from the body of British jurisprudence where the accused is innocent until proven guilty and our new improved customer-friendly regime will presume they are all guilty. Meantime, HMRC will raid their bank account, serve APNs, send in the boys etc.
Unless, in the highly unlikely event, they can somehow prove themselves innocent.
In which case, HMRC shall subject the customer to an extended adversarial process of proof, which the majority will not be able to afford. So don't damned well bother! We are now Gods!
This new charter will make taxation more transparent and simpler, for all our devoted and loyal customers.
As part of this process of improvement, HMRC are closing the wasteful resources of local offices, telephone enquiry lines and online FAQs and replacing these cumbersome and costly processes by one agent serving the whole of the UK, who unfortunately, will be unavailable for 99% of the working week (defined as Monday to Thursday 10.00 AM to 4.00 PM) as they will be:
1. On a course aimed at improving their customer facing skills:
2. On leave:
3. On sick leave:
4. On compassionate leave:
5. In a meeting:
6. On a language and communication course where they are learning (or trying to) speak English:
7. Dead.
You know it makes sense!
Signed: HMRC Divisional Gauleiter
(Well, it is Black Monday!)
Customer?
The Cambridge online dictionary defines a customer as: "a person who buys goods or a service"
This means that they have a choice to buy or not. When will HMRC get rid of this condescending tone. Tax payers are not customers - they have no choice in the matter. They have to pay tax, and they have to pay it to HMRC.
Given the choice a customer has I am sure most would not chose to pay tax, especially to HMRC.
Old Charter
I've just come across this. http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2009/11/28/hmrc-charter/
Taxpayers Alliance
I had my first encounter with the Inland Revenue almost exactly fifty years ago, and for the last 40 years I have experienced the gradual (now accelerating) decline in the services, morale, and honesty of the State's tax collecting authority. The only way I have been able to fight back is by joining and supporting the TaxPayers Alliance and I urge all who feel frustrated or angry about HMRC to lend their support to this organisation.
Committee waste of time - job done below
Proposed New Charter
HMRC responsibility to you;
1. None
Your responsibility to HMRC;
1. You must comply with every law that we implement in full or face penalties if you don't.
2. Submit returns on time and pay tax on time or face penalties if you don't.
3. You must read our minds and not comply with what the law actually says but must interpret what we actually meant when we made the law or face penalties if you don't.
4. You must not complain when we change the law years later and retrospectively apply it to you, as you should have read our minds in the first place.
5. You must answer letters within 7days, keep your books up to the minute with daily submissions of information we will do nothing with or face penalties if you don't.
6. You should accept with good grace that you chose to be self employed and work silly hours, with no pension and few holidays and if you wanted to finish at 2.30pm, have an awesome pension and flexi time working to suit yourself with no real accountability to anyone then you should work for HMRC under the new Charter responsibilities above.
Quango ?????
The new HMRC charter advisory committee have made their opening gambit,
Were nothing more than a Quango, not really they said ..........
quietly overseeing the release of a tweaked version of the HMRC tax payer charter last week.
Gotten
Are we talking about HMRC or the IRS?
I didn't realise Rebecca had learnt her English from Hollywood "movies" as well as Francois
I learnt mine at a small town comp. It's pretty bad but I don't say "gotten".
Apparently obsolete
Extract from Chambers's Etymological English Dictionary, Edinburgh, 1956.
(arch., Scot., and U.S.) gott'en.
The 1882 version merely contained the abbreviation "obs." which would indicate that the word was in common usage in England but was no longer used at the time of publishing.
Really?
Extract from Chambers's Etymological English Dictionary, Edinburgh, 1956.
(arch., Scot., and U.S.) gott'en.
The 1882 version merely contained the abbreviation "obs." which would indicate that the word was in common usage in England but was no longer used at the time of publishing.
Thus you are implying Rebecca and Francois are antedeluvian Scots, born around 1870?
"Past tense, past participle of Get".
Furthermore: "As past participles of get, got and gotten both date back to Middle English. The form gotten is not used in British English but is very common in North American English. In North American English, got and gotten are not identical in use. Gotten usually implies the process of obtaining something, as in he had gotten us tickets for the show, while got implies the state of possession or ownership"
Source Oxford Advanced English Dictionary.
In any case it is appallingly poor grammar.
"Gotten rid of..." means in American usage obtained. Ergo Gotten rid, means literally "I have some rid."
Is rid nice? Can you eat it?
Good grammar would suggest one writes, for example, "Have removed".
Sadly, as we live now in a cultural desert dominated by mass media, I am fatigued to receive letters and emails from major companies and government which proudly state "We have got." etc.
Have is entirely sufficient; got is redundant in any case.
P.S. I wonder if "Got" tastes the same as "Rid"?
I'm pleased that you did not start your response with "So".
I really enjoyed your response Michael.
However, I was implying nothing of the sort. Although, Francois could possibly hae some Scots blood; The Auld Alliance and a' that.
I only quoted from that dictionary because that is the one that sits on my desk and has done since I left school. Being a Scot I am too mean to buy a more up to date one.
Auch! Yer a canny wee lassie!
I really enjoyed your response Michael.
However, I was implying nothing of the sort. Although, Francois could possibly hae some Scots blood; The Auld Alliance and a' that.
I only quoted from that dictionary because that is the one that sits on my desk and has done since I left school. Being a Scot I am too mean to buy a more up to date one.
Whilst I do have the Oxford English concise large hard back, I am off the English Oxford now, as they keep adding maniac made up nonsense words on the sole "justification" and premise that "They are in increasing popular usage."
The online Cambridge dictionary is excellent. And free...
You just hit on another of my peeves: commencing a sentence with the word "So"!
Change the HMRC at the top?
How about an outsider for head of the HMRC?
Steve Davis for CE of HMRC Board Petiti on Change.org