UPDATE: HMRC PAYE dashboard error continues

HMRC is experiencing issues with its Business Tax Dashboard for tax month eight for some PAYE schemes.

Due to an IT change made to the Revenue’s systems on 21 November 2013 and fixed on 16 January this year, payments made between those dates are not showing correctly on the dashboard.

The Revenue advised those with errors that they need not get in touch with the department as the affected data will be corrected over the coming weeks.

It added that it would not be pursuing any apparent debt relating to this issue...

Continued...

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Comments

Why are they still chasing payments?    5 thanks

Sandra Silk | | Permalink

So if there is a known error why do HMRC keeping phoning me about a client's underpayment? As a bookkeeper I know that if your accounts aren't up together you don't chase payment until they are as it makes you look incompetent.  Five times now since the week before Christmas, once at 7.40pm and today they left a mobile number for me to call.  I'm hardly going to call a mobile number!  Payments for this client and several others are not being allocated. Where are these payments going?  It will be a nightmare when we get to year end trying to get HMRC to find and allocate these missing payments.  And there are only 3 months to go until penalties are implemented.  HMRC have created so much more work for us this year.  

And another thing!  Why, when HMRC phone us, do we have to give them information so they can identify us as agent, but when we ask them to supply some evidence such as a PAYE reference number they say they can't.  With so many scams I think it should be standard procedure that they identify themselves with a reference number we can confirm.  After all they know who we are as they have phoned us!

... and another thing    2 thanks

4aterr1ers | | Permalink

Absolutely right about the id confirmation. If I get an unsolicited phone call from someone who cannot or will not confirm their identity to me then I will not discuss even the time of day with them. If HMRC call me they should at least know my Agent ID number or be able to refer to a date of a submission. Data protection laws can result in severe penalties for disclosing information to third parties and I for one am not going to Court for trusting someone allegedly calling on behalf of HMRC or anyone else. The same applies to Banks !!!!!!

A new approach

Healthpay | | Permalink

I am going to try a new approach when HMRC ring me next.

I am going to deny there are any problems at all and tell them to ring back if things don't improve next month. Then when they ring back I shall say that some of our outside agencies are seeing a data problem and we will apply a fix in 3 months time.

If it's good enough for them..........

Dashboard error

Lyndaw | | Permalink

Yes I have had about 4 clients this month with their dashboard being incorrect.

On One client  a payment has been completely missed off the dashboard, but when the client rang HMRC they had received the money.

I rang up today and ran through another clients list of payments.  One where a payment made is showing on the dashboard as a completely different figure to the one actually paid .  One payment on the account is showing and has never actually been paid by my client , all in the month of December.

 

The other two clients - again duplicated payments on the account is showing.

I am not going to ring in about all the other clients that are affected.  I am going to give them a month to sort it out.  What were HMRC doing in December we ask ourselves??  They had better get this sorted by the 5th April or all hell will breakout .  As I said to the HMRC Revenue official - we could all do without this in January of all months!

Dashboard Error    1 thanks

Myshkin | | Permalink

As all the companies where I have access to their dashboard have errors surely this is a universal error?  I have a feeling that there is not a greater outcry because most companies never look at their dashboards.  And it is not just month 8 - I have seen them with errors every month since May.

 

Our company has 3 identical

sueber | | Permalink

Our company has 3 identical payments recorded in December. We checked the bank to verify that only 1 payment had been deducted. It took over an hour on the phone last week, with answer machines and then a person, before they confirmed that only one payment had been received but there was no indication given that this wan't an isolated incident on just our account.

Aha!

SXGuy | | Permalink

Makes sense now.

 

Had a telephone call from HMRC last week asking to "confirm month 8 figures" for a clients PAYE

Seems they didnt retain everyones details!

DMGbus's picture

System design defect?

DMGbus | | Permalink

It would be useful and informative if HMRC could be honest, truthful and NOT economical with the truth about issues of liability errors at Collector of Taxes.

I (and I assume others) have seen cases where correct data from FPS reports is present at Employers Office but incorrect data (usually too high a liability) at Collector of Taxes - this was before the latest admission of problems following last November's system update.

I assume that the same scenario as pre-November 2013 can still arise / is still the case:

  • Employers office has full details of the FPS (ie. the breakdown of liabilities per employee and a total) - in my experience correct data
  • Collector of Taxes only has a total liability figure which in some cases has been too high - in one instance the tax deduction made from one employee coincdentally was the amount of overstated liability at Collector of Taxes.

Now, unless the design specification for RTI reporting said the following:

  • Send a detailed report and breakdown to Employer Office
  • Send a total liability only report to Collector of Taxes

Then a plausible explanation is that there is a design flaw at HMRC end with the suspected (but HMRC would never admit this) whereby one department (Employers Office) receives the data and has to by manual intervention "map" or copy and paste the data to another department (Collector of Taxes).   One would have thought that this would have been an automated process, but the existence of differing data in two departments suggest that some scope for human error exists in transferring data, or alternatively HMRC's IT partners have not fulfilled their contractual obligation to provide a system that works (A third possibility is that an automated system of data transfer was rejected by HMRC on cost grounds, ie. an excessively high fee would have been charged for this extra step in designing the software).

 

 

Other flaws exist

mhtax | | Permalink

I am aware of at least one case where a new code was uplifted by Sage and HMRC are adamant that it never existed.

I also have a client where a debt restriction has been included in a current 2013/14 code number and now the incorrect debt has been completely cancelled no-one is physically able to remove the restriction.

 

mydoghasfleas's picture

When HMRC has sorted this out........

mydoghasfleas | | Permalink

can they look at my car because I cannot believe the mpg my dashboard is telling me I'm getting.

Why is it called a dashboard?  It's like the damn politicians talking about road maps.  Have they not heard of sat navs?

And another thing!

HUGH W DUNLOP | | Permalink

I have felt for a long time that this is a one sided arrangement. I have often thought about hanging up on them until they give me proof of who they are, such as my user ID., but I have a feeling that this would lead to recriminations.

Incidentally, they are not alone in this, I recently contacted my insurance company to put in a claim and they asked for all my details and policy number. The girl said she would look it out and phone me back. Within 5 minutes I did get a phone call, but was asked all my security details, including my phone number, which she had just used to phone me. However, the real annoying bit was when she asked me what type of policy it was. She had gone to get the policy details before phoning me back, and HAD the details in front of her. Honestly!!!!

Year-end reconciliation?

Myshkin | | Permalink

What on earth is going to happen at the year end?

Dashboard error

Snowy13 | | Permalink

About time they admitted to it !  I have spent over 5 hours on the phone to the helpline.  One lady agreed she had no idea why the figures I sent were different to what they had received.  She confirmed her NI figures were different to what I had sent for month 8 and 9 so I think this may well be an ongoing problem.  Does it seem fair that my client will have to pay for the time spent sorting out their problem ???

 

 

mydoghasfleas's picture

Penalty notices for 2013 returns

mydoghasfleas | | Permalink

We received copies of penalty notices sent to members of an llp for the 2013 SA return last week.  The llp is filed and there is an receipt for it.  Even so we have not passed the filing date until the end of week. 

Has anyone else had this experience recently?

I thought this thread would be as good as any a place to start as it kicks off from HMRC error.

Marion Hayes's picture

Paper after 31 October?

Marion Hayes | | Permalink

Did they receive  a paper version after 31/10 but before you filed electronically?

.

ireallyshouldkn... | | Permalink

Stupid question but how to do you even see or register for the dashboard?  I did look some time ago but couldn't see any way of turning this feature on for agents, only some help relating to logging in through client's ID's which we don't hold.  This seemed to suggest you had to register for each one individually, at which point it seemed more hassle than it is worth. 

 

DMGbus hits the nail on the

Weecalum | | Permalink

DMGbus hits the nail on the head, HMRC need to admit that they have made an error and not try to say we (employers) have submitted incorrect details. The refusal to admit that there are problems with RTI is doing nothing to help taxpayers trust and confidence in HMRC. 

Being the in house tax person for a small employer, I have had to try and sort out this problem out as our apparent underpayment is close to 7 figures. I have also had to deal with errors in individuals tax code notifications - I apparently received my P45, was re-employed but then also assumed to have a second employment at the exact same salary level as the first (I havent moved jobs or had any change in circumstance to give rise to a tax code change). To me the impact is not that great, but to individuals with earnings in excess of £50k who have suffered the same error on HMRCs systems, this can have a profound impact on their personal allowance and several were issued with incorrect underpayment notifications as a result.

I give credit to my Employer Compliance officer who has tried to help but even they are restricted with what they can see and do on HMRCs systems. The restriction on access to view slightly baffles me as surely they should have full access given their authority level?

I have been assured we will not suffer interest and penalties on the incorrect underpayment position but I shall not hold my breath.

Oddly, they decided not to

paulwood | | Permalink

Oddly, they decided not to give full dashboard visibility - a particularly vital function to agents - only to the clients themselves.

Most never look at this and obviously shouldn't give you their log in details but do anyway - which makes the whole thing farcical

Speak to us at the end of the year they said

paulwood | | Permalink

A particular client of mine - one that actually does monitor their own dashboard closely and operates three PAYE schemes - between us we are keeping an interesting record of

(A) What is showing on the dashboard every month

(B) What the FPS and EPS submissions amounts are and;

(C) What HMRC call or write to request as payment

There are some major differences as you can well imagine. I contacted HMRC about this issue and suggested that perhaps I could send this spreadsheet, copies of all of the submissions made and any other pertinent information I can think of - in order for them to investigate. Possibly to a specific person or team? But no...

 

Wait until the end of the year and see what happens was pretty much the response I received.

Slow motion car crash anyone?

Same here...

Kazmc | | Permalink

Yep, we have all the same problems with a majority of our clients.

We are spending hours per day trying to sort out the mess for our clients. We have been told time and time again that everything their end is fine and that we must of made mistakes only to be now told that it is their fault!

I honestly believe it I not just month 8 either, we have so many clients for whom incorrect details, either under 'Payments Made' or 'FPS Submission Details' , for all differing months.

We have login details for our clients so we can monitor the situations. If we did not have the facility to view the dashboards there would be absolutely no way we could even attempt to reconcile the accounts. At least, as well, we know what a mess everything is in so won't get a nasty surprise at yearend, we know all 300 client payrolls will be wrong!! Feel so sorry for the payroll providers that are unaware of the extent of the problems.

HMRC have to suspend penalties surely?......

mr. mischief's picture

Complaint Case number 2

mr. mischief | | Permalink

See my other post recently.  Having earlier this week raised my first formal Complaint in about a year, today I am raising another one.

Without an appointment, Debt Collection turned up at my client's premises today chasing a balance he did not owe.  Needless to say she did not have the NI payment holiday workings, which I have now given to HMRC 5 times and they still have not processed.  Needless to say no-one had passed her the Nov 13 letter I wrote copying and pasting the £2k payment my client made by direct credit from the company bank account, a copy of which HMRC has now been sent 3 times.

She was very polite and apologetic at the shambles.  We knew it would be a shambles and it is a shambles.

 

mydoghasfleas's picture

Paper after 31 October

mydoghasfleas | | Permalink

Nope online filing in July 2013

mydoghasfleas's picture

Shambles

mydoghasfleas | | Permalink

Perfect description, Mr Mischief,

  1. a place of great disorder
  2. place where animals are brought to be slaughtered
  3. any place of slaughter or carnage
  4. row of covered butchers' stalls or shops, originally meat, are sold. This definition is cleansed as no reference is made to the stench, or the blood, offcuts and offal in the gutters.

All in all, HMRC is in disorder, causing carnage and financial slaying of taxpayers, stinks to high heaven but no one of the political great and good is doing anything about cleaning it up.

Marion Hayes's picture

@mydoghasfleas

Marion Hayes | | Permalink

If you phone the number on the penalty notice you get through to the right section usually and they are much more helpful.

What did they say when you rang?

Another one

Snowy13 | | Permalink

Have just spoken with another payroll person who has 2 missing payments on their dashboard which they are being chased for.  Hopefully all penalties will be suspended until this problem is sorted which I suspect is going to take longer than anticipated.

Month 8 still incorrect!

Gem7321 | | Permalink

Well, it is 10 February and although month 8 is now showing a payment received on the dashboard it is different to the payment that we actually made. I have looked at the payments list and it is incorrect here as well so the difference has not been misallocated to another month.  It seems HMRC have misplaced 6% of our payment! 

On the phone now :)

mr. mischief's picture

Another one!

mr. mischief | | Permalink

Today I got another visit from Debt Management chasing a fictitious "debt" for a client who is in fact fully up to date with their PAYE and NI.  My perception is that Benton Park are all over the place in trying to sort problems in the system.

There is no way our spineless profession should accept any talk of fines and penalties whilst this shambles continues.  High time those fat cats who run the Institutes start standing up to HMRC instead of just rolling over.

What a joke

Snowy13 | | Permalink

If you attempt to ring HMRC you now get a message saying that due to the issue of non filing generic notifications they are extremely busy.  Not just us they have created headache for then !

Dashboard

Snowy13 | | Permalink

I don't understand how the tax figure can agree with their dashboard but the Ni figure is way out.  Anyone else having this problem ?

@snowy13

mhtax | | Permalink

Is it just showing either the employees total or the employers total?

Dashboard

Snowy13 | | Permalink

It only shows the total NI. 

@Snowy13

mhtax | | Permalink

You said it was the wrong figure so I wondered if it had just missed out one or the other side.

 

Ongoing

Snowy13 | | Permalink

Just wondered if anyone else has ongoing problems with HMRC dashboard or is it just me ?  Since month 7 each month has been shown wrong and no sign of them correcting it despite me sending copies of my full payment submissions.