HMRC secures plumber conviction

A plumber from Hampshire has been sentenced to four months in jail , suspended for 12 months, for tax evasion as a result of HMRC’s targeted crackdown on various trades.

This follows a number of HMRC investigations targeting plumbers, gas fitters and heating engineers who failed to take advantage of last year’s Plumbers Tax Safe Plan (PTSP) to put their tax affairs in order. Those who came forward have already paid more than £4m in outstanding tax.

HMRC investigators discovered that Peter Mack of Ringwood had set up his own freelance plumbing business in 1997, but never registered his earnings with HMRC.

Detailed enquiries revealed that over a 14-year period Mack evaded £88,000 of income tax and VAT, plus interest, bringing the total to £112,000.

The tax arrears were calculated as:

  • £10,000 for 2010 – 2011
  • £50,000 for 2004 – 2010
  • £28,000 for 1997 to 2004 plus interest

He was arrested on 28 July 2011 and pleaded guilty to £40,000 of fraud at Southampton Crown Court on 2 April. He recently paid £40,000 to HMRC who will seek to recover the rest of the money through civil proceedings.

Mack was also suspended for 12 months, ordered to pay £1,800 costs and will serve 100 hours of community service.

John Cooper, HMRC assistant director of criminal investigation, said: “After leaving full-time employment in 1997 it would appear that Mack decided to set-up alone and flout the law. He didn’t register for Self Assessment, and paid no income tax or VAT. This gave him an unfair and illegal advantage over his law abiding business competitors and robbed the exchequer of vital revenue.”

Mike Wells, HMRC director of risk and intelligence services, added: “We want people targeted by any HMRC campaign to come forward and use the opportunity to put the record straight and pay any tax due on the best possible terms. It really is better for people who owe tax to come to HMRC, before we come and find you.”

So far more than £500m has been raised by HMRC from voluntary disclosures, and a further £105m from follow-up activity.

Campaigns launched so far have targeted offshore investments, medical professionals, plumbers, VAT defaulters, coaches & tutors, electricians and online traders. Visit AccountingWEB’s taskforce tracker for further information.

Comments
memyself-eye's picture

A salutory tale

memyself-eye | | Permalink

Or should that be sanitary for us that just solder on....

taxhound's picture

Whoops...

taxhound | | Permalink

.

George Attazder's picture

It does seem...    4 thanks

George Attazder | | Permalink

... like a fitting punishment. After all if u-bend the law you can expect consequences to flow.

Now he's had a tap on the door from a copper, his business will have gone down the pan and he will be frequenting a dodgy joint for a while.

He really should have piped up when he got the chance, rather than make this silly mastic.

He would say it was a .....

Peter Bonetti | | Permalink

.......... putty he got caught (they use it too).

It is difficult to tell….

Trevor Scott | | Permalink

….where the truth starts and finishes in this story.

Rounded tax assessments, and according to John Cooper (HMRC assistant director of criminal investigation) his supposed liability and earnings are on the basis that merely “…it would appear…”.

It is a shame they were incapable of establishing true facts.

 

frustratedwithhmrc's picture

Facts are often hard to establish in pure cash evasion cases...    4 thanks

frustratedwithhmrc | | Permalink

Trevor Scott wrote:
It is a shame they were incapable of establishing true facts.

This does appear (on the surface) to be a genuine case of pure evasion, therefore it is likely that there is no evidence on which to base the true facts.

He would probably have gone to great lengths to avoid maintaining any records of jobs done or cash received (and customers likewise).

So from my perspective, with the best will in the world HMRC can do little more document the situation as they see it, make necessary assumptions based upon what little evidence they are able to ascertain (it does not mention whether the plumber was co-operative or not) and raise an assessment on that basis.

I have absolutely no sympathy for this little cheat - he got exactly what he deserved.

 

How..    1 thanks

Trevor Scott | | Permalink

…can you state that he got what he deserved when you don’t know the facts. HMRC likely had a lack of information, but such a lack of information or co-operation does not necessarily make their assessments in any way accurate. All we have is HMRC's version of events, hardly a reliable source.  

If HMRC were in any way properly managed, immediately upon a taxpayer leaving employment (as this chap apparently did in 1997) and failing to declare income etc … a bell should have rung at IR/HMRC and an investigation started immediately. Correct, or at least reasonably accurate, figures would then be capable of being produced.

Having a self-assessment system, with the duty being on the taxpayer to declare, does not permit HMRC to excuse its shocking failure to pick-up on such an obvious case for investigation …which at the latest should have started in 1999! Had the IR/HMRC been on the ball then the likely outcome would have been that the individual would have declared and paid correct (or as much as could be accurately assessed at the time) taxes, the public purse wouldn't have been deprived of funds for all these years, and the guy wouldn't have been likley put out of business all these years later. I bet HMRC don't collect all the supposed evaded taxes, or penalties and interest, and I suspect the guy will simply go into the black economy again.

frustratedwithhmrc's picture

HMRC prosecutes far too few evaders...    4 thanks

frustratedwithhmrc | | Permalink

Trevor Scott wrote:
If HMRC were in any way properly managed, immediately upon a taxpayer leaving employment (as this chap apparently did in 1997) and failing to declare income etc … a bell should have rung at IR/HMRC and an investigation started immediately. Correct, or at least reasonably accurate, figures would then be capable of being produced.

I agree that the time taken to catch this little cheat is probably down to HMRC management of recent years concentrating on persecuting the innocent (through penalties for mistakes) rather than finding the guilty.

Regardless of that and the specific facts presented you seem to be unaware of one thing (which is not clear from the original article) - Peter Mack pleaded GUILTY to the charges put forward by HMRC.

So while the assessments are as you say "round figure estimates", even this little cheat has admitted that he has been guilty of evasion and that the charges and facts as presented in court are substantially correct. He may have admitted guilt to spare himself a more severe sentence, but innocent man very rarely plead guilty.

For details, we will probably have to wait until the actual court report is available, but I must admit to be interested in reading that.

Self assessment is a generally good system in that it allows those subject to the regime to declare what they know to the best of their knowledge (since they are the best judge of their financial affairs). However, this needs to be backed up by enforcement against those who either deliberately under-declare their earnings or hide themselves and their earnings entirely from HMRC.

If the social contract means anything, it means the support of the state (health, welfare, education, etc.) in return for appropriate taxation. This guy has carried out a wilful deception and if you expect any sympathy from me (or the majority here at AccountingWeb) you are sadly mistaken.

Equally, I think we should see a few Chief Executives behind bars for tax evasion, that would be an even better example of fairness, but I suspect that I'm dreaming...

....

Trevor Scott | | Permalink

I did note that claim that he had pleaded guilty, but people who plead guilty have not necessarily committed said offence. He may have simply looked at the situation and thought it was better to plead guilty.The best we have is HMRC’s claim that “…it would appear…”.

In fact, he may have earned far more money and chuckled to himself that he got off so lightly. I came across such a client. Had HMRC been on the ball, and I don’t foresee a time when they even have a prospect of being able to manage the information they have, this situation could have been avoided …. Not just in this case, but with all the other cases which they claim to exist.

Raising enormous assessments, 10 or 20 years after the fact, with enormous penalties may sound good to gullible politicians but ultimately doesn’t make up for a properly managed tax system in which correct taxes are assessed and actualy collected; full collection is unlikely with such cases, the public purse being the loser.

ShirleyM's picture

Guilty plea    1 thanks

ShirleyM | | Permalink

Do you really think he would have been convicted on his guilty plea alone?

I think it is fairly safe to assume they had tons of evidence too, and there may have been a few gaps, eg. where did he get the money needed for food, clothing, etc. If he didn't get it in benefits where did it come from?

From my blog this week...    3 thanks

jford | | Permalink

HMRC have issued a press release this week with details of a plumber who’s just been given a 4 month suspended sentence for tax evasion. Fair enough. The news is meant to be a deterrent to others contemplating evading tax. But is it? In this case the plumber set up in business in 1997 – the same year the Spice Girls were setting up their business. What have HMRC been doing over the years to take so long to find him? It’s not like he was running a complex shadowy off shore operation. Presumably he’s been driving round in a van, advertising locally and, in all likelihood, fixing the leaky taps of HMRC employees,
Occasionally I’m asked to advise someone on how they can evade tax. My reply is always the same – “I can’t help” and “you’ll get caught”. I go on about the sophisticated systems HMRC use to track evasion and how it’s not worth the risk. I’m sure I’ve prevented more tax evasion than this press release ever will.
There’s also a question mark hanging over the tax bill. A sum of £88,000 over 14 years is just £6,285 a year – for all tax evaded including VAT. There’s not enough information provided but if he was busy enough to be VAT registered I reckon his VAT bill alone would be around £6,000 a year. So that’s the other part of my anti-evasion talk scuppered. I always advise that if you evade tax you’ll pay more in the long run as HMRC will aim high with their estimates of the tax evaded. And it’ll be difficult to prove them wrong if you’ve got no records to base your argument on.
So, whilst the news is hardly a charter for tax evaders, taking 14 years to catch someone and then billing them what looks to be a fraction of the tax they owe won’t have too many determined tax evaders trembling in their beds.

No Shirley...

Trevor Scott | | Permalink

ShirleyM wrote:

Do you really think he would have been convicted on his guilty plea alone?

I think it is fairly safe to assume they had tons of evidence too, and there may have been a few gaps, eg. where did he get the money needed for food, clothing, etc. If he didn't get it in benefits where did it come from?

 

... I didn't think he would have been convicted on purely a guilty plea ... and considering HMRC's actual claims....I wouldn't be surprised if he had refused to co-operate with HMRC in any way. 

The question of how this person lived, after ceasing employment, should have rung alarm bells at the Revenue. But it did not!

Of course we can argue that he would have been caught earlier had we operated a US style 1099 reporting system, but that is onerous, would cause a collapse at HMRC, and drive many business people and accountants to suicide. 

davidwinch's picture

Guilty plea    1 thanks

davidwinch | | Permalink

I see from the HMRC press release that the plumber was charged with evasion of income tax, evasion of VAT and money laundering.  He pleaded guilty to "tax evasion of £40,000".  Although it doesn't say so, I assume this means income tax evasion.

It would appear that he did not plead guilty to VAT evasion or money laundering and that these counts will not be pursued.

As a result of his guilty plea he has effectively escaped conviction for the VAT and money laundering offences and obtained a mitigated sentence for the income tax evasion.  He was sentenced (in effect) to do 100 hours community service and pay £1,800 costs.  He had already paid HMRC £40,000 in respect of back tax.

That sounds to me like an outcome which his legal team would have advised him to accept.

Because the offending goes back to 1997 and because he has been convicted of only a single offence and because he has already paid over to HMRC the admitted benefit of that offence he will not be subject to confiscation proceedings under PoCA 2002 or similar legislation.

Reading between the lines I think the defendant was given good legal advice and followed it!

frustratedwithhmrc wrote:
For details, we will probably have to wait until the actual court report is available, but I must admit to be interested in reading that.

Because he pleaded guilty the actual court proceedings would be very brief - read the charge (as amended by agreement) - how do you plead? - guilty - sentencing - end.  There will not be a 'court report' published.

David

There are big cheats too    3 thanks

Roland St Clere... | | Permalink

I have no sympathy for this little cheat either...

But what about the big cheats...the ones who are wined and dined by HMR & C ??

This is an example of picking on soft easy targets and letting the big cheats escape scott free.

ACDWebb's picture

Picking up with local knowledge,

ACDWebb | | Permalink

or failure to do so is nothing new.

A long, long time ago when I was in HMRC I moved offices and was recommended a local B&B to stay at initially whilst I found somewhere more permanent. This was an outer London office that had a lot of people transferred in from LP's etc and the same place had often been recommended over the years. Around the time I moved there they suddenly realised that she did not appear on the books...OOPS!

Contrast that with a DI & at least one other inspector in my previous district who would go out at the weekend, and make diversions on the way back from Commissioners meetings etc, armed with a camera and notepad always at the ready.

HMRC need to publicise this....    1 thanks

youngloch | | Permalink

HMRC need to seek maximum publicity on this case - stick up some billboard posters around the country with a mug image because there's far more chance of people reacting to that rather than something on the HMRC website which I very much doubt the cheats visit on a frequent basis!

Spread the scare stories and those that our clients often comment on as "I couldnt sleep at night if I was them but there again they never get caught do they....." might start tossing and turning a little bit more.

Good deal or what?

The Black Knight | | Permalink

A suspended sentence. Just a paper record then?

No tax geared penalties.

And saved the Vat?

Unless Confiscation follows and it appears not.

The tax dodger is still better off, perhaps managed to pay a larger mortgage and took advantage of property price rises in the meantime which will cover the small amount of interest.

Is pleading guilty an effective way of saving 70% penalties and a vat avoidance scheme?

John R's picture

A little harsh    2 thanks

John R | | Permalink

"Mack was also suspended for 12 months, ordered to pay £1,800 costs and will serve 100 hours of community service."

I didn't realise this was a hanging offence!

Pot, kettle, black    1 thanks

ThornyIssues | | Permalink

What makes a mockery of the article and the replies on here is the fact that we are all sitting, pointing fingers of disgust and being sanctamonious when we all know that both our members and our clients do cash in hand or "in kind" services day in, day out or knock a bit off bills in return for back-scratching work that evades tax.

Tax evading black economy work amoungst the professions is rife and the black economy in general has increased as direct result of the burden placed on the economy. Why don't we start addressing the issue by firstly asking why it costs 62p in the Pound to colllect tax in the UK, which is amonngst the highest collection costs in the World. Then start of addressing the complexity .........

The bottom line is.........    3 thanks

tanyajackson | | Permalink

HE CHEATED. If you didn't hear that in the back row HE CHEATED!!! and got caught...and had the back bone to say I AM GUILTY! .....END OF CASE....

taxhound's picture

Would like to see...    8 thanks

taxhound | | Permalink

I would like to see more action against people who:

1. Set up a limited company.

2.  Remove all the money for themselves (allegedly a dividend, but as nothing is set aside for tax, it cannot be a legal dividend).

3.  Get the company struck off without settling the corporation tax bill or possibly even ever filing accounts.

They may or may not have intended this outcome at the start, but it is still surely tax evasion - and HMRC don't seem to bother going after the directors for the unpaid tax, even though they took the money out...

I am not talking about genuine companies which run in to hard times, but those who blatantly flout the rules - I have seen a few contractors do this over the years.... (NOT with my blessing or support, I hasten to add).

Tip of a very large and growing iceberg    1 thanks

ds | | Permalink

So they got one and they make a bit of a song and dance about it, big deal !

So easy to go after the small man and leave Big Corp alone to evade and file in the Cayman Islands or do nice deals with the Head Of IR while wining and dining him. And what about all those Government employed consultants who set up Ltd Comps to evade NI ?

And why did IR take so long 15 years to trial, as others have pointed out, hardly a record that will make others sit up and take notice. 1997, well that's also when nu labour came to power with one of the most corrupt and fraudulent administrations in living history. The moral of this story is, get away with it if you dare try and if found out with damming evidence then hold up your hand and then say sorry.

Some of the comments on this thread could have come directly from the Daily Mail web site, talk about hypocrisy... on and by the way he probably didn't employ the services of an accountant to legally cook the books, which seem to have upset some of the responders probably more than they care to say.

Good result all round

Ian McTernan CTA | | Permalink

A good result for the Revenue- they get their publicity for the conviction, which no doubt ups the tax yield by way more than the amounts involved in the actual case.  Guilty plea makes it a nice clean case for them to advertise, amounts involved big enough to make people think twice without being so big as to make people think 'too expensive to come forward I'll be made bankrupt, may as well carry on'.

A good result for the taxpayer- good legal advice obviously followed and gets off with a suspended sentence and a bill of £122,000 or thereabouts, and becomes a mainly law abiding taxpayer.

I think the comments about the Revenue 'failing' to find him for 14 years are way off the mark, and seem to think the Revenue have the time and resources to track every person in the UK- if they did then all those civil servants using personal service companies would have been stopped before they started!

And totally off topic, if Ed Balls says 'too far too fast' and suggests spending even more money and putting the country even more in debt as a way of helping the economy I'm going to scream!

So easy to go after the small man and leave Big Corp alone to evade and file in the Cayman Islands or do nice deals with the Head Of IR while wining and dining

That would be those same big corps that pay huge amounts of income tax, NIC and contribute enormous amounts to the Exchequer?  High time they scrapped CT entirely and stopped the huge tax bill on company profits- maybe then we would see some real (not government spending more artificially growing the economy) growth.  Check their total tax contribution before you start spouting leftist anti-anyone who makes money 'facts and figures'.

As another idea then...

ds | | Permalink

Well what about scrapping tax on employment altogether, why the hell  should you have to pay to work?

Put it on consumption instead and show the tax paid in every purchase made.

The big question here is Why does the government take so much money from us and why does it do so very little with it, apart from keeping itself going, which seems to be the main purpose of UK Gov.

I bet he has a (nice) house though. Bought cash?    1 thanks

androo235 | | Permalink

Even if he doesn't own a house under LVT a large chunk of the rent he pays on wherever it is he lives would be LVT (and on his workshop or lock-up). He would therefore have paid his tax and would have been unable to avoid it - all without having to register with anyone or assess himself at all. His life and work assess him through the land.

landvaluetax.org

Henry George - Poverty and Progress.

This, like much of the discussion on this site would be a non-issue under LVT. A well known guide to the UK tax code had grown from 5952 pages in 2001 to 9,866 pages in 2007 when the font size was reduced to stop it going through 10,000 pages http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6981397.stm . The NCE has driven us here.

Why have none of you heard of Henry George or even the NCE. Mason Gaffney has an idea. Who's he? A conspiracy theorist of course. Well maybe, I don't think so though as what he says chimes with me as a former economics student

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/coe/!index.htm interesting interview with him too, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/coe/GaffnIvw.htm

George originally proposed LVT as the single tax. Hence those who agreed with him used the "single tax" tagline in their campaigns and indeed became known as "single taxers". Interestingly now that George's ideas are perhaps reappearing into public discourse (I hope so - I don't think it's just me) we now have a Tory (well proxies for, the IoD and the Taxpayers Alliance) proposal in the news today calling itself a "single tax", http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18137548. Unbelievably, well no completely believably, this on the fly, probably ill thought out proposal for a single tax, being an income tax, gets immediate exposure on the BBC and pollutes the space historically occupied by the original single taxers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Single_Tax , or , http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/hgh/stax.htm . Hashtags are real-estate today too after all.

Henry George hardly gets a mention in the media (nor in Economic's departments) even though he was as well known, better even, than Marx 100 years ago. Certainly George's main work "Progress and Poverty" easily outsold Das Kapital. Witness this mornings Andrew Marr run discussion on R4. I don't think the guests there - supposedly our liberal intellectual elite, know who George was and what impact he had on society over the end of the nineteenth and the first quarter of the twentieth century, neither nor do they likely understand why landed interests behind NCE are more comfortable with Marx than they are with George.

Gaffney is right NCE now rules completely unopposed and more or less unquestioned (Marx implicitly accepted it).

No, I don't think Gaffney is a conspiracy theorist. NCE is shorthand for Neo-Classical Economics - i.e. the basic paradigms of today's economics - the box in which almost everyone is thinking and in which all economists are taught to think.

I also like positivemoney.org

Why did it take  hmrc so long

abdullah gora | | Permalink

Why did it take  hmrc so long to flush him out?

Because    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

abdullah gora wrote:

Why did it take  hmrc so long to flush him out?

HMRC have been largely unconcerned about evasion or the pursuit of evaders over the last 15 years or so.

Mainly because this would mean admitting that self assessment and centralism has not worked.

These cases are only being brought for political reasons now.

Both Plumbers thus far have been complete evaders (not even registered) so should have shown up somewhere before now surely.

I wonder whether they were previously risk assessed and found to be too small to worry about?

It remains to be seen whether we will see a half wit evader in court as opposed to a no wits evader.

There are many schooled in the art of declaring a little bit. The part payroll part undeclared cash, part vat part not,claiming expenses for self build and PPR abuse. It is not difficult for HMRC to prove these cases but for some reason they do not.

The message is still: Unless you are a complete idiot you can get away with it.

weaversmiths's picture

Well said taxhound    1 thanks

weaversmiths | | Permalink

I would like to see more action against people who:

1. Set up a limited company.

2.  Remove all the money for themselves (allegedly a dividend, but as nothing is set aside for tax, it cannot be a legal dividend).

3.  Get the company struck off without settling the corporation tax bill or possibly even ever filing accounts...........................................

 

 I have seen many many people set up limited company after limited company (often in relatives' names), barely altering  the  co name and when they have screwed every supplier and customer, take the money and start all over again.  If any of my Sole Traders or Partnerships want to go limited they find another adviser as I refuse to handle limited companies.

As for the cheating plumber, HMRC will have seen him many times, insisted on bank accounts going back to the employment cessation, established how many expensive cars, holidays, property  etc he has owned in that time and assessed him on that.  It is easy to keep below the radar. eg. dont park you vehicle near the place you are working so that a Compliance Officer cannot determine that you are working where all the other subbies are when Reg Nos are being taken to establish that the driver is registered for SA, DVLC is a prime source for finding the cheats provided they have the vehicle registered in their name.  Know who you are working for when taking cash. Dont tell anyone about not paying tax, have a moan about how much you pay on a regular basis, put cheques in the bank - no one checks where it comes from if you are in business until HMRC find out you are trading.   It is lucky to stay beneath the radar for this long but not impossible. 

I celebrate the fact that our lumbering system worked and that  he was caught. 

 

TheAncientOne

Likewise

bobtee | | Permalink

I had the misfortune of dealing with such a person recently (ex tenant of my client).  What we uncovered was several companies struck off within a year each, estimated turnover > £200k pa, no paperwork kept, no VAT, corporation tax, PAYE payments made.  The guy is a complete criminal, how do you report him, how do you stop him setting up new companies in future, there is no easy mechanism, we don't have hard evidence.  He'll just be moving on to fleece his next victims.  Latest Ltd company is in his partners name.

On the other hand I have a new client that I am helping who is experiencing very hard times and has also gotten a couple of years behind with his paperwork.  We are sorting this all out now but in the mean time the HMRC have served a Stat Demand for the £100k in estimated back taxes.  He has been entirely honest about his position.  FYI, the real arrears tax position is less than £20k.  

Where are the authorities when you need them.   

@bobtee

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Unfortunately this is all too common and almost sanctioned by HMRC and companies house who work together to ensure that the tax is not collected.

If you think this was deliberate then it is a MLR not that that will cause anything to be done either.

We just have to accept that this is the way of the world.

Is your honest client a LTD in which case he may find taking the same route is his answer as no one is likely to chase him through an insolvency either as the official receivers are useless too.

I don't see why the honest should not take advantage of the system too.

@ Black Knight

bobtee | | Permalink

FYI:  We have no specific hard/ paper evidence for MLR, so chances of investigation from them if reported are nil.  Clearly deliberate though.

honest client:  Unfortunately he is not LTD, is locked into 19 yrs remaining on leased premises with no get out/ escape clauses! 

It's all seems unfair.  Oh well .........

@blacknight it is unfortunate and unfair

androo235 | | Permalink

I am sure that "dishonest client" has to pay rent or something in lieu of same (that part of mortgage interest which refers to the purchased land value as opposed to the buildings, and indeed the capital element that relates to the land which is capitalised rent of course) on his home and his business premises. If land rather than individuals and ephemeral companies were the basis, the unit, of taxation then he (she?) would not be avoiding their taxes because they couldn't and so honest client would then not be disadvantaged.

As bobtee indicates the present system, which the NCE requires, makes liars or fools of all of us.

What's more the bureaucracy, both official (HMRC etc) and non-official (us and lawyers) to maintain the system would, I think, be greatly reduced - not to mention the size of tomes needed to guide one around the system (see my earlier post, no I'll post the link again, here, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18137548).

Henry George - Progress and Poverty - landvaluetax.org (Mason Gaffney too)

oh and positivemoney.org.uk

MLR. What is it?

androo235 | | Permalink

minimum lending rate?

mini/maximum loss ratio?

multiple linear regression?

medical loss ratio?

 

I give up. What's MLR

It's a secret

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Special agents code for Midlands Light Railway ;-0

oh. I see.

androo235 | | Permalink

Sure its not,

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ah, I've got it, I think, money laundering regulations, not among that lot though, strangely neither was the Midlands Light Railway (or whatever it was Black Night said).

 

Henry George - Progress and Poverty - Mason Gaffney will tell you why you've never heard of George (or I suppose by association of Mason either....)

 

 

Very good

The Black Knight | | Permalink

But it's still not going to happen.LOL

In the context of above posts it was a Report as required by the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 in connection with the Money Laundering Regulations 2007.

I had assumed you were an accountant.;-)

the issue is not whether it will happen it is whether it should

androo235 | | Permalink

Just saying "it will never happen" ducks the argument and the issues and absolves you from expressing a point of view or apparently from thinking at all. In other threads you did express, or at least implied, a view. You have now taken to saying that, "it will never happen".  Every objection you have raised I have, with the help of references and links, responded to. To dismiss Georgism with such a glib phrase and then "LOL", well I would say that words fail me, but they don't.

I've had a glass of wine. I get stroppy on alcohol.

Of course any economy will need financial technicians to keep records and organise data and management accounting experts to analyse, synthesize, hypothesize, sift, think creatively, recommend and advise, using proper economic concepts of profit or loss, occasionally they may even lead. These make a genuine contribution to well-being by contributing to efficiency, economy and effectiveness.

Your comment exemplifies the complacence of the rent seeking accountant a parasite off the complexity of our tax system ignorant of the NCE, knowledge would be worse, ignorance which allows them to suck at the teet of the system NCE has created and think themselves clever because they happen to know a lot of acronyms, to bamboozle the public, and can do a few sums. They make knowing deals with like minded chums with the connivance of similarly economically illiterate and corrupted but arrogant lawyers. I hope I can avoid becoming that kind of accountant.

In an earlier post in this thread I explained that the NCE is Neo-Classical Economics - I did tease a bit and keep it until the end of that post.

For anyone interested my earlier exchanges with Black Night are here http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/osborne-shocked-millionaire-tax-avoidance/526268?page=2#comment-556351 it's a long thread too.....

We have to be careful about

Adriano Jones | | Permalink

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