Replies (27)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
No they are none of these things...
They are taxpayers, not customers or any of Mr. Mischief's fruitier vernacular.
T.A.X. P.A.Y.E.R.S
Victims
Victims is the more appropriate term. Or possibly:
Suckers
Marks
Mug Punters
Indeed. Just to confirm that such a moniker is indeed valid. With the leak if the IR35 tests on Friday last, these so called "in business tests" should be more appropriately called VICTIM TESTS.
Customers get to CHOOSE where to take their custom. I wonder how many 'customers' HMRC would be left with if their 'customers' got a choice about which tax authority dealt with their tax affairs!
You do realise WHY they use "customers"?
Ask yourself whether EVERYONE who HMRC has to deal with nowadays is ACTUALLY a taxpayer? Let's say some recipients of child benefit for example...
I suggested many years ago
Customers get to CHOOSE where to take their custom. I wonder how many 'customers' HMRC would be left with if their 'customers' got a choice about which tax authority dealt with their tax affairs!
My suggestion many years ago was for a method to be found for taxpayers to opt the particular tax office he/she wished to deal with.
The poorly managed culprits would then easily be found out and those working and managing in the good offices would be promoted accand remunerated accordingly.
Look at it from the other end
We are "customers" of phone, gas, electric etc.etc. So ask yourself how are you treated by them. Yep the same way HMRC treats you so really "customer" is appropriate. We should inform Collins etc. of the new meaning of "customer".
No need to use a common term for all
If you are in business, you call your customers "customers", and you call your suppliers "suppliers". You do not call your suppliers "customers" because of some deep rooted compulsion to have a common label to describe all your relationships.
HMRC should call entities "taxpayers" in correspondence, articles and references to indivduals in relation to their tax affairs, and should call them "claimants" in such documents referring to individuals in relation to social security benefits that they administer. Simples.
With kind regards
Clint Westwood
I'm with Clint on this one
I am a taxpayer. Some of my clients are claimants. None of us are customers as none of us are purchasing anything from them. I am a customer of my gas supplier because I do buy gas from them, whether I have much choice in the matter or not.
postage costs
its actually £9960 wasted- franked mail was 39p so £4680 for the blunder and an additional £5280 for the apology letters, as the postal prices increase today!, Maybe if they had invested the £10K in effective training, it would be more cost efficient.
If I remember rightly
tax was used to raise money for wars. So really we could be called contributors for the normal day to day stuff and when the government want to go to war we could be called tax payers or when they put £10b in a euro fund we could be called "mugs".
Donors
I think you have it all wrong HMRC are really like a charity. We give money to them so they can do good, like WWF or RNLI. Only they do good for lots of things not just one topic, so shouldnt we be Donors...
different approach
We have always asked if clients need to complete a tax return (when it seems to be of not much use and in advance of the year in question). And have always been told that if a return has been issued then it must be completed !
However this year we have seen returns issued, not filed and penalties issued, only for the return to be cancelled following an outburst from the tax payer that it is unfair that they should have to complete a return (and most likely had income that should have been returned). HMRC have taken these outbursts at face value and removed taxpayers from self assessment.
Sometimes you have to wonder whether HMRC live in an alternative universe as the plan seems to be NOT to collect tax ?
Whether you have any additional tax to pay (and need to notify) is not the point. If a return has been issued then it should be returned or complained about sooner than after the filing deadline !!
I wonder how many of these cancelled tax returns turn out to be tomorrows missing traders as more of the economy moves underground.
Not the case Black Knight!
Not really applicable when the Return issued was, for example, a 2011 Partnership Return when the Partnerhsip ceased in 2009/10 or earlier. This happens every year in my experience (an HMRC blindspot) and was the case in the two incorrect daily penalty notices we received.
Same old same old.....
'There are over 9m taxpayers in Self Assessment . Unfortunately with a project of this scale things will very occasionally go wrong. We make every effort to minimise mistakes but when they occur we sort things out as quickly as possible.'
So we are just supposed to accept yet another poor effort just because their system is so big - why can't they extend the same empathy when we have the occaisional oversight and just man up when they make a mistake and say 'Hands up we have screwed up AGAIN'
As for the customer thing - whatever happened to the customer always being right?
I am so bored with the HMRC holier than thou attitude - but it will never change whilst there is a monopoly - where is the motivation for change when your customers can't change suppliers.
Daily penalties
Last week a couple of clients of mine received notice of DAILY penalties relating to returns filed late (online not paper). What happened to the three month period?
When I called HMRC they said it was an error and the penalties had already been cancelled which is fine but they should never have been raised.
"Customers"
HMRC can use the term "customers" as much as they like, but I will never call myself an HMRC customer and I will never refer to my clients as HMRC customers either.
If I could take my "custom" elsewhere that would be another thing. I liked the post that I saw on another forum which suggested that we could take our "custom" to a more efficient tax regime (say Australia or Ireland), they could agree our liability under UK rules and then forward our payment or repayment details to HMRC (for a suitable admin fee of course).
Sacked
If continual errors on this magnitute happened in the private sector someone would get fired. Im beginning to get tired of whingeing civil servants who evidently are fire proof constantly underperforming at our expense. How many of us will now have to waste time explaining HMRC errors to our clients, again
"whingeing civil servants"
whingeing civil servants who evidently are fire proof constantly underperforming at our expense.
That's no way to refer to Wild Billy.
...
If continual errors on this magnitute happened in the private sector someone would get fired. Im beginning to get tired of whingeing civil servants who evidently are fire proof constantly underperforming at our expense. How many of us will now have to waste time explaining HMRC errors to our clients, again
You have to be careful how many times you do that because the Revenue's performance soon becomes unbelievable, with the implication that you are the real problem.
acting on lessons learned from this error
It appears normal for the HMRC, Politicians etc to use a defence as "learning from their errors".
What are the chances of the taxpayers, jo Public using it as a valid defence!!
Too many turkeys at HMRC.
What is an agent stakeholder when it's at home? Does he represent "customers"?
Any humans left at HMRC?
Too much gobbledegook.
"Stakeholders" is almost as irritating as "Customers"
What is an agent stakeholder when it's at home? Does he represent "customers"?
Abby's new assistant on NCIS Agent Van Helsing
HMRC incompetence
When I was an Inspector in the Revenue, I said years ago that when the likes of me were all gone they would get the department they deserve. I was dismissed 2 years ago for just doing my job, which involved looking at some records which "they" did not accept was allowed. How HMRC has deteriorated in the last couple of years, because they have got rid of so many experienced people, and have not realised that computers cannot replace them. Computers do not have common sense and judgement, and unfortunately nor do most senior managers! I can hardly wait to see what a mess they make of RTI.