HMRC steps up property raids

Individuals suspected of evading tax are being subjected to record numbers of property raids by HMRC, new figures show.

Data obtained by law firm Pinsent Masons reveal that 445 property searches were carried out by HMRC in the 2012-13 tax year, the Daily Telegraph reported. This follows 499 searches - a new record - carried out in the 2011-12 tax year.

Both figures represent...

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good

The Black Knight | | Permalink

at least that's a start. Where were they though as no rumours round this way.

Tax Fraud and property searches

mikefleming3028 | | Permalink

Having gone to all the bother of getting all the permissions in place, searched the property in question and found evidence of fraud how many of the fraudsters in question then skip the country? According to HMRC`s Most Wanted list there are 20 still on the run but these are cases were the total Revenue at stake is around £750,000,000, mostly VAT. I would be interested to know how many of of the 445 searches resulted in an arrest and charge and of those charged how many actually made it to Court for trial and sentence. I would also be interested to learn how many of the 20 Most Wanted are thought to be living  now in foreign parts. It`s one thing catching fraudsters its seems to be  quite another to get them to turn up for sentensing. HMRC, the police and the Border Agency do not appear to be acting as one joined up unit when it comes to such matters and as long as this is the case such "fraudsters will continue to play fast and loose with our tax system to the detriment of  our society in general.

HMRC are very keen to quote statistics when it aids their purpose but every time we examine matters in more depth  things don`t appear to be as "rosy" as HMRC would have us believe. HMRC are target driven and this encourages a culture of box ticking. Root and branch changes are needed and this is unlikely to happen under HMRC current leadership. 

spot on! Hear hear!

The Black Knight | | Permalink

mikefleming3028 wrote:

Having gone to all the bother of getting all the permissions in place, searched the property in question and found evidence of fraud how many of the fraudsters in question then skip the country? According to HMRC`s Most Wanted list there are 20 still on the run but these are cases were the total Revenue at stake is around £750,000,000, mostly VAT. I would be interested to know how many of of the 445 searches resulted in an arrest and charge and of those charged how many actually made it to Court for trial and sentence. I would also be interested to learn how many of the 20 Most Wanted are thought to be living  now in foreign parts. It`s one thing catching fraudsters its seems to be  quite another to get them to turn up for sentensing. HMRC, the police and the Border Agency do not appear to be acting as one joined up unit when it comes to such matters and as long as this is the case such "fraudsters will continue to play fast and loose with our tax system to the detriment of  our society in general.

HMRC are very keen to quote statistics when it aids their purpose but every time we examine matters in more depth  things don`t appear to be as "rosy" as HMRC would have us believe. HMRC are target driven and this encourages a culture of box ticking. Root and branch changes are needed and this is unlikely to happen under HMRC current leadership. 

hear hear!

public Accounts committee on HMRC`s accounts

mikefleming3028 | | Permalink

02 July 2013

 

This was published recently about HMRC`s latest published  accounts and speaks volumes as to the lack of confidence in HMRC`s recent performance. 

 

A statement from The Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MP, Chair of the Committee of Public Accounts:

 "These accounts give us a mixed picture. One of the most startling figures is the tax gap for VAT, which HMRC estimates at £9.6 billion. That is a huge amount of money – 10% of the VAT that should be collected and a third of the overall tax gap. Yet despite some progress, HMRC still does not comprehensively check all VAT returns and its response to the emerging threat from online trading has been far too slow.

I welcome the progress HMRC is making in tackling fraud and error in the tax credit system, but with £2 billion in overpayments last year it still has a long way to go. And the personal tax credit debt balance is going up, not down. It now stands at £4.8bn, over £1bn greater than the target HMRC hopes to meet by the end of March 2015.

HMRC met its target to operate a normal PAYE service by March 2013, following previous problems. But it had to forego £953.3 million of tax in the process and there remain questions about its capacity to handle in year changes to taxpayer records. I also have concerns about HMRC’s real time information system (RTI), which has been rolled out before being fully tested. HMRC has chosen not to add in contingency for significant extra costs or measures to deal with major technical failure. This is worrying as the current cost of RTI is already expected to be £115.5m more than originally planned. HMRC is leaving itself exposed, which could be a real concern for DWP as Universal Credit relies on RTI.

HMRC is responsible for collecting all the tax due. It must do more to crack down on tax avoidance. And it needs to put taxpayers – the customer – at the heart of its services."

Say no more!!!!

 

 

 

 

Poor people fiddling tax

chatman | | Permalink

Great news. The last thing we need is a load of poor people fiddling their tax.

Quite    2 thanks

Roland St Clere... | | Permalink

Espescially that bankers and others are so honest!

who are the poor?    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Who are the poor?

those on a £26K of benefits package + untold maintenance Payments responsible for breeding the next generation of the unemployable?

Tax evasion is tax evasion regardless of the amount otherwise there is no point in having any rules.

If every group says the other should pay and there's no policemen we will end up with a deficit and a pile of unrepayable debt. Of course we could cut down on our free kill an arab program, our free baby factory, and free umpteen other wasted expenditures.

There would be a riot if one football team decided it didn't agree with the offside rule and the referee failed to see and enforce.

Its fantasy    2 thanks

Roland St Clere... | | Permalink

To think that the "poor" are really idlers bingeing on booze, fags and Sky telly on £26k a year!

They are n't living the life of Riley you know.

Interesting football analagy though....

Referees are often biased and incompetent. Are clubs supposed to lie down and take it any

more than the poor are supposed to put up with State thuggery! 

 

  

Quite so.    4 thanks

ghewitt | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:

Who are the poor?

those on a £26K of benefits package + untold maintenance Payments responsible for breeding the next generation of the unemployable?

Tax evasion is tax evasion regardless of the amount otherwise there is no point in having any rules.

If every group says the other should pay and there's no policemen we will end up with a deficit and a pile of unrepayable debt. Of course we could cut down on our free kill an arab program, our free baby factory, and free umpteen other wasted expenditures.

There would be a riot if one football team decided it didn't agree with the offside rule and the referee failed to see and enforce.

Too many greedy people. Greed is the key to it all.

No one wants to share the wealth. What is wrong with a good days pay for a good days work?

What is wrong with a fair taxation system - if you earn a lot you pay a lot, if you earn little you pay little.

How much money do you really need?

For God's sake you can't take it with you - life is meant to be enjoyed yet we spend most of it chasing our tails for money. And then we die.

The whole world is mad if you really just stand back and look at it.

But no-one wants to know...  ooooo loooook a new iPhone, must have that; must have, must have, must have, greed, greed, greed.

And lets be honest here; accountants spend a lot of time grubbing about in the mire looking for ways to save their 'clients' even more tax so they can in turn grub off them to continue their sorry little lives of more, more, more.

The more I stand and just observe this pitiful world the more I think we are stark raving mad; queues to buy an iPhone, people trampled underfoot in the mad rush to buy a 199 laptop; innocent people bombed so the arms industry can make more bombs and hence more money.

But don't worry, a good bombing is tax deductible, especially if you off-shore it; then you can buy the land, remove the peasants and build a hotel complex, all with a grant from the government just installed, boiler-room the shares through the caymans and end up with a neat profit of 10mil - AND - keep the hotel and gift holidays to your spouses and their families and claim it back as an overhead, reducing your net corporation tax to 5%; which is tax-deductible.

Did I mention my bill?

 

Really

The Black Knight | | Permalink

Roland St Clere-Smithe wrote:

To think that the "poor" are really idlers bingeing on booze, fags and Sky telly on £26k a year!

They are n't living the life of Riley you know.

Interesting football analagy though....

Referees are often biased and incompetent. Are clubs supposed to lie down and take it any

more than the poor are supposed to put up with State thuggery! 

State thuggery? really? are you sure you're in the UK?

Where would you prefer?

I does amaze me that you can blame crime on the fact that greedy bankers might do it. Are you trying to justify one by the other at the same time as trying to say one is right and the other wrong? That is clearly not logical.

Is it only referees that you disagree with that are incompetent and biased, but if it's in your favour that's fine.

 

UK State Thuggery

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
State thuggery? really? are you sure you're in the UK?

It sounds to me like Roland St Clere-Smithe is most definitely in the UK

Blair Peach, Ian Tomlinson, Azelle Rodney, Harry Stanley, and Jean Charles de Menezes, among others, have all been executed by UK police. Many others have been assaulted. I would call this state thuggery.

Hurrah!!!!

ghewitt | | Permalink

chatman wrote:
The Black Knight wrote:
State thuggery? really? are you sure you're in the UK?
It sounds to me like Roland St Clere-Smithe is most definitely in the UK Blair Peach, Ian Tomlinson, Azelle Rodney, Harry Stanley, and Jean Charles de Menezes, among others, have all been executed by UK police. Many others have been assaulted. I would call this state thuggery.

A person who thinks outside the Matrix, finally. I was beginning  to think I was the only one.

The State is not our friend any more than the supermarkets care about 'Every little helping'.

If you haven't seen it I recommend watching 'They Live' by John Carpenter. Put the glasses on and see the reality.

and yet

The Black Knight | | Permalink

ghewitt wrote:

chatman wrote:
The Black Knight wrote:
State thuggery? really? are you sure you're in the UK?
It sounds to me like Roland St Clere-Smithe is most definitely in the UK Blair Peach, Ian Tomlinson, Azelle Rodney, Harry Stanley, and Jean Charles de Menezes, among others, have all been executed by UK police. Many others have been assaulted. I would call this state thuggery.

A person who thinks outside the Matrix, finally. I was beginning  to think I was the only one.

The State is not our friend any more than the supermarkets care about 'Every little helping'.

If you haven't seen it I recommend watching 'They Live' by John Carpenter. Put the glasses on and see the reality.

and yet it's what everyone votes for with their every little helps!

again which country would you prefer?

and what would you do about it? (Strapping bombs to religious idiots and rioting is not an answer!)

Did you protest vote for chaos or just pick standard, red, blue or yellow.

Conspiracy everywhere? A useful way of keeping the internet educated occupied. If it were so then I would bet your conspiracy theories are also conspiracies. Some of these Conspiracy merchants believe in everything from aliens to god!

Abuse of power and a lack of control is more likely the answer. "taxation without representation is tyranny"

Who will police the policemen? actually that probably works better than the policemen policing the criminals or differentiating themselves therefrom. Don't you think that's the same issue in that the law is not working rather than working? Lack of control and enforcement in both directions!

Rioting can work

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
rioting is not an answer!

Poll tax? Arab spring?

Democracy? Not here.

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
and yet it's what everyone votes for

Not really. In 2010 65% of the electorate voted. The Tories got 36% of the vote, so 23.4% of the electorate voted for them. And no-one voted for a ConDem coalition, so really no-one got what they voted for.

And this is before you even consider the effect of the establishment-controlled media on voters' beliefs, coupled with the absence of an education system that teaches people how to interpret political propaganda. On top of that, I can never remember voting to invade another country, yet it seems to happen anyway.

Conspiracy Theories    1 thanks

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
again which country would you prefer?
Cuba's government seems to have done very well in decreasing inequality, and creating one of the best health and education systems in the entire world, despite a 50-year economic embargo from the most powerful country the world has ever seen. If it were not for the US embargo I might choose Cuba.
  
The Black Knight wrote:
and what would you do about it?
Difficult one. Get involved in discussions such as these, go on demonstrations, video the police and vote Green
 
The Black Knight wrote:
Did you protest vote for chaos or just pick standard, red, blue or yellow.
You make these choices sound mutually exclusive, whereas they are actually mutually inclusive. It was Thatcher deregulation, continued by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that caused the latest chaos (the biggest recession since before WWII).
 
The Black Knight wrote:
Some of these Conspiracy merchants believe in everything from aliens to god!
Yes, the latter being the most ridiculous. But don't write conspiracy theorists off completely; after all, just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Some conspiracies are there, some are not. Actually, I think your average conspiracy theorist would be unlikely to believe in gods, as this requires blind belief, not curiosity.
 
The Black Knight wrote:
Who will police the policemen?
Certainly not the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Maybe with the advent of cheap video recording equipment, the citizens will do it. That's how the police execution of Ian Tomlinson and the attempted police cover up were revealed.

I don't think I disagree    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

chatman wrote:

The Black Knight wrote:
and yet it's what everyone votes for

Not really. In 2010 65% of the electorate voted. The Tories got 36% of the vote, so 23.4% of the electorate voted for them. And no-one voted for a ConDem coalition, so really no-one got what they voted for.

And this is before you even consider the effect of the establishment-controlled media on voters' beliefs, coupled with the absence of an education system that teaches people how to interpret political propaganda. On top of that, I can never remember voting to invade another country, yet it seems to happen anyway.

I don't think I disagree

but it's engineered (if it is) by a lack of choice for an alternative for the intelligent voter in that to vote for something you think is a good idea you have to sign up for something abhorrent.

for the other 98% of the population it's about being able to reason which ain't going to happen.

You are right we are fed a lot of crap in our education school , the news and east enders to reinforce God, marriage, and other such nonsense designed to keep the masses amused, and support two huge industries. Where would the economy be without little princesses and princes and the viciousness and upset that follows not sharing.

I am of the opinion that your vote is wasted but you can vote with your pound and the nation chooses tesco's which say it all really

My point is that even on top of that where else would you chose to live?

Yep! I'll buy that for a dollar    1 thanks

The Black Knight | | Permalink

chatman wrote:

The Black Knight wrote:
again which country would you prefer?
Cuba's government seems to have done very well in decreasing inequality, and creating one of the best health and education systems in the entire world, despite a 50-year economic embargo from the most powerful country the world has ever seen. If it were not for the US embargo I might choose Cuba.
  
The Black Knight wrote:
and what would you do about it?
Difficult one. Get involved in discussions such as these, go on demonstrations, video the police and vote Green
 
The Black Knight wrote:
Did you protest vote for chaos or just pick standard, red, blue or yellow.
You make these choices sound mutually exclusive, whereas they are actually mutually inclusive. It was Thatcher deregulation, continued by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that caused the latest chaos (the biggest recession since before WWII).
 
The Black Knight wrote:
Some of these Conspiracy merchants believe in everything from aliens to god!
Yes, the latter being the most ridiculous. But don't write conspiracy theorists off completely; after all, just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Some conspiracies are there, some are not. Actually, I think your average conspiracy theorist would be unlikely to believe in gods, as this requires blind belief, not curiosity.
 
The Black Knight wrote:
Who will police the policemen?
Certainly not the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Maybe with the advent of cheap video recording equipment, the citizens will do it. That's how the police execution of Ian Tomlinson and the attempted police cover up were revealed.

I'll go with that. Especially the Cuba bit.

I'm still not convinced it's all a conspiracy but rather individual greed and swarm theory.

the cover ups are about individuals and their mates lying to protect their arses after they have made a mistake, the political bits are the fake enquiries to prevent riots in liverpool etc and or about pasties.

Ian Tomlinson? Was he the slap on the back induced heart attack (not a safe thing to do with excessive force) I am sure If i had done it it would not have been self defence. and you are right it was wrong and the safeguard against it happening again (which was not enforced) was at the very least a manslaughter conviction.

Voting

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
but it's engineered (if it is) by a lack of choice for an alternative for the intelligent voter in that to vote for something you think is a good idea you have to sign up for something abhorrent.

Do you mean that no-one has the perfect mix of policies, and that any party with good policies will have some abhorrent ones too? I quite like the Green Party's policies and don't find any of them abhorrent, but if that is what you mean, I see your point.

The Black Knight wrote:
I am of the opinion that your vote is wasted

I agree to some extent, but not completely. Yes, you are voting against millions of Sun-reading, X-Factor-watchers, but look at the history of the Labour Party: it started off as a minority party but, as people say its share of the vote grow, they took it more seriously and decided to vote for it themselves. That is why, since 1997, I have always voted for parties with no chance of winning.

The Black Knight wrote:
but you can vote with your pound and the nation chooses tesco's which say it all really

I am ashamed to say I get all my groceries from Tesco. Simply because it is so easy. If I were religious I would go and let a priest sexually abuse me to make up for it.

The Black Knight wrote:
My point is that even on top of that where else would you chose to live?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean, if it wasn't for all that?

Ian Tomlinson Attack    1 thanks

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
Ian Tomlinson? Was he the slap on the back induced heart attack

He had a police dog set on him, got a vicious blow to the legs (from behind) with a truncheon from a TSG policeman (the TSG are allowed to spend much of the day doing physical training such as weight lifting) and then a push in the back from the same policeman (Simon Harwood) sufficient to send him flying to the ground. He died from internal bleeding.

Stone him

The Black Knight | | Permalink

chatman wrote:

The Black Knight wrote:
but you can vote with your pound and the nation chooses tesco's which say it all really

I am ashamed to say I get all my groceries from Tesco. Simply because it is so easy. If I were religious I would go and let a priest sexually abuse me to make up for it.

The Black Knight wrote:
My point is that even on top of that where else would you chose to live?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean, if it wasn't for all that?

and so you should! Sold your soul for convenience? Were you not interested in the special two for one on drunken debauchery with horse meat sir?

I would never shop in tesco's and rather go hungry than eat its products! My skin burns if I go near the place.

apart from the weather there is nowhere better than the UK? It all depends on your position in the tree!

Are we looking deep enough

ghewitt | | Permalink

I think we need to look a little further than the media. That will just tell you a load of hogwash; but then that is what the majority want. Thinking takes effort; who wants to think when you can watch 'Corrie' or 'East Enders' and all the other drivel that passes as entertainment. I have found that people just don't want to know about anything that is actually going on - Agenda 21 for example. It's all too easy to dismiss it as 'conspiracy'. I think some of it is and is designed to be so as to discredit anything that might wake people up to what is going on. There are things going on that just pass people by - who here knows what the City of London is, for example.

We are all too busy playing with our new shiny iPhone 5s's and the other trinkets that keep us enslaved so we can pay them off and buy more.  "Yes sir, this new smart TV is internet connected with webcam, now you will be totally connected..gush gush". 1984 anyone? By the way, our 30 gram chocolate ration has gone up to 25 grams isn't that great; who says Big Brother doesn't keep an eye on our interests. Now what's on the the TV?.

Choice is getting to be no choice    1 thanks

ghewitt | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:

chatman wrote:

The Black Knight wrote:
but you can vote with your pound and the nation chooses tesco's which say it all really

I am ashamed to say I get all my groceries from Tesco. Simply because it is so easy. If I were religious I would go and let a priest sexually abuse me to make up for it.

The Black Knight wrote:
My point is that even on top of that where else would you chose to live?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean, if it wasn't for all that?

and so you should! Sold your soul for convenience? Were you not interested in the special two for one on drunken debauchery with horse meat sir?

I would never shop in tesco's and rather go hungry than eat its products! My skin burns if I go near the place.

apart from the weather there is nowhere better than the UK? It all depends on your position in the tree!

It is actually getting quite difficult to shop anywhere but Tesco's or Sainsbury's and the like. All the little retailers have been forced out of business or turned in to Tesco-Expresses. There is method in Tesco-madness - in one country, I forget which, they buy the main supermarket, keep it as whatever it is and slowly introduce Tesco brands. All the while they are building a superstore just outside the town, then the signage appears and soon the little supermarket is forgotten and closed.

Nowhere better than the UK? I choose to live in the French countryside and work remotely. I grow my own and patronise the shops in the village. There are no cones, no 24/7/365 mentality and no gridlock. I have to come back to the office several times a year and can tell you I know where I prefer. Do you know shops actually close here for lunch and you have to actually wait until they open to buy anything; it's a disgrace! NOT!.

France it is then

The Black Knight | | Permalink

France it is then! Can you still get Australian shiraz there? find the french stuff on the acid side.

Respect    1 thanks

chatman | | Permalink

The Black Knight wrote:
I would never shop in tesco's and rather go hungry than eat its products! 

I salute you, Sir.

It is the Media

chatman | | Permalink

ghewitt wrote:
I think we need to look a little further than the media. ... We are all too busy playing with our new shiny iPhone 5s's and the other trinkets that keep us enslaved so we can pay them off and buy more.  "Yes sir, this new smart TV is internet connected with webcam, now you will be totally connected..gush gush". 1984 anyone?

If not the media, who is it who tells us we cannot be happy without the ostentatious displays of wealth, the mortgage, the marriage, the kids, the commitments? Maybe your point is that the media is simply the tool of those who really own us, in which case I agree with you.

That is indeed

ghewitt | | Permalink

chatman]</p> <p>[quote=ghewitt wrote:
I think we need to look a little further than the media. ... We are all too busy playing with our new shiny iPhone 5s's and the other trinkets that keep us enslaved so we can pay them off and buy more.  "Yes sir, this new smart TV is internet connected with webcam, now you will be totally connected..gush gush". 1984 anyone?/quote]

If not the media, who is it who tells us we cannot be happy without the ostentatious displays of wealth, the mortgage, the marriage, the kids, the commitments? Maybe your point is that the media is simply the tool of those who really own us, in which case I agree with you.

my point. The media is what keeps us enslaved. We need to look past it (I was not clear on the point I was making) and put on the 'glasses' as alluded to in the film 'They Live'.

Not many people actually think; they have their thoughts and opinions formed by the media - which is the whole point. G K Chesterton lamented this in so many words and that was over 100 years ago. It is the policy of those who control to ensure that you cannot escape it. Everywhere you go there is a TV - the fish and chip shop, the bank, the pub, the supermarket and to top it all a humungous TV at the ferry port to keep all the occupants of waiting cars 'entertained' - aka not thinking.

'...you are a slave Neo'. When you step back and really look it is so clear but '...you cannot tell anyone what the Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself...'.

1984 is already here, the New World Order and Agenda 21 are being put into place and we are sleep-walking into a totalitarian world state. Yes, the world looks so 'normal' and I am mad. Ok. Have it your way but don't say you weren't told.

Media and 1984

chatman | | Permalink

ghewitt wrote:
Not many people actually think; they have their thoughts and opinions formed by the media

Obviously. When people say they don't believe what they read in the papers and hear on mainstream news I always wonder "what do you believe then, if they are your only sources of information?"

ghewitt wrote:
1984 is already here

Agreed

ghewitt wrote:
Have it your way but don't say you weren't told.

That's what the media always tell me.

And so on

ghewitt | | Permalink

"Obviously. When people say they don't believe what they read in the papers and hear on mainstream news I always wonder "what do you believe then, if they are your only sources of information?"

--

Very good point.

My question is "Then why do you read them and watch the TV News etc."? People who say that they don't believe the main stream media (MSM) often say that because it is deemed fashionable, a throw-away line with a dismissing wave of the hand. But where you then to ask them "Why not?" you will get an equally vague answer like "Oh you never can". They have no idea and usually have no intention of finding out. If any thoughts do arise they are quickly replaced by the next attention grabbing headline or the start of their favourite show.

ghewitt wrote:

"Have it your way but don't say you weren't told."

--
That's what the media always tell me.

And therein lies the bitter irony.

that's just the way it is

The Black Knight | | Permalink

That's just the way it is. Not convinced it's a conspiracy.

I do think you have to read Animal farm along with1984 since ancient times these things have been led by the mob, yes they can be easily stirred up with a tax on pasties issue. But it's the Mob that decides how to behave.

are not the conspiracy stories media too?

Just group norm behaviour and a lot of stupidity.

to be successful you only need to fool most of the people most of the time.

It is getting increasingly difficult to sift fact from fiction, granted.

Yes it is.

ghewitt | | Permalink

I have learnt that you cannot tell anyone what is going on; they won't believe you and will likely call you names. They have to see it for themselves; if they want to. Most don't.

It is tempting to blast people with what you know and to get frustrated when they laugh it all off.  There is an interesting scene in 'They Live' where the guy who can see it all tries to make another guy, who doesn't, put on the glasses so he can; they have one hell of a fight.

I don't waste my time doing that.