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HMRC 'unable to trace' accountant's tax records

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22nd Jan 2015
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An accountant has expressed outrage after HMRC wrote to him claiming they cannot find his tax records. 

David Savill, head of owner managed business services at Bishop Fleming, said HMRC told him to fill out a form as they were 'unable to trace' his tax records. 

The issue has now been resolved but the incident shocked the accountant, who said it gave him further insight into issues faced by clients.

For three decades, the accountant maintains he has paid "considerable sums" in tax every year and hasn't moved home for 17 years. 

"I could not believe HMRC has managed to lose my tax record," he said.

"I’m an accountant so I’ve been ardent in providing HMRC with my tax submissions every year, but somehow they’ve managed to lose track of me on their radar."

HMRC did provide him with an explanation, which was that a form had been sent from the firm to them with regard to a group of companies it operates.

This listed Savill’s details but omitted to include his NI number by mistake.

As a result, the Revenue it was unsure whether there was someone else named ‘David Savill’ at the address given. It therefore decided it needed to write to his home address and check who lived there.

Because of this mistake he also expressed his concern at HMRC's proposed direct debit recovery powers.

When approached by AccountingWEB, HMRC said it does not comment on identifiable taxpayers.

Have you experienced anything similar? Let us know 

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Replies (16)

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By GuestXXX
17th Mar 2015 18:00

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Replying to Accountant A:
Wild Billy Hickok
By Wild Billy
22nd Jan 2015 22:52

Of course it is not a story...

It's just another example of the declining quality of articles on the site sadly. Too much of this sort of stuff at the expense of more interesting and in-depth subjects.There are a couple of writers that consistently bash this kind of stuff out unfortunately. 

And everyone knows that the purpose of Mr Savill raising this was for publicity right? We don't really think he was outraged by the perfectly reasonable explanation, do we? Because if he is then I would be worried. Plenty of stuff to criticise HMRC for so let's not fall into the schoolboy trap of creating false criticisms that dilute the important criticisms. 

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By GuestXXX
17th Mar 2015 18:01

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
23rd Jan 2015 09:22

Good PR?

Why is David Savill not outraged at whoever in his firm failed to fill out a form correctly and caused this problem in the first place?

"We create unnecessary problems by [***] up forms" is hardly a good sales pitch.

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By User deleted
23rd Jan 2015 09:29

Seriously?

I'd expect to see this kind of stuff in the Daily Fail, not here.

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By Rachael White
23rd Jan 2015 09:32

Advertorial

We don't do Advertorial on AccountingWEB- and if we did it would be well signposted.

Thanks for  your comments, we will take this on board for future articles we produce. 

The premise of this article was really his experience of feeling how a client might feel, faced with an issue - it may have given him a renewed sense of empathy or insight into how it is on the 'other side of the coin'. I thought this was interesting and wondered had other accountants had a similar experience?

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Replying to DJKL:
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By billgilcom
23rd Jan 2015 18:10

the client
The client I suppose would never know the firm created the problem in the first place - otherwise they would appreciate that whoever filled up the form in the first place was negligent or careless or just couldnt be bothered. Who would want that person doing their accounts or returns etc etc or even worse their real time PAYE

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By GuestXXX
17th Mar 2015 18:01

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Replying to stepurhan:
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By billgilcom
23rd Jan 2015 18:15

the HMRC enquiry / form
More likelý than not said "we have been unable to trace your records" Did not say "we have lost your records" and should have said "somebody in your office has caused us all work by their carelessness and of course probably charged a fee for sorting it out " for your client

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Replying to stepurhan:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
24th Jan 2015 11:31

Simple solution?

secondhand_22 wrote:
When persons whose firm will be named (so profile raised) approach you with ideas for articles, it might be worth running the first draft by someone with a cynical eye and see what they think.
Or just not name the person in question. The story is that HMRC have lost someone's records (though the person whose records have been lost would appear to be at fault). Is there really any need to name the person involved? If they are simply wishing to draw this problem (which, on the face of it, is an isolated incident anyway) to people's attention, then surely they want to do that whether they receive credit of it or not.

The same should apply to stories including the phrase "According to [firm X]" if firm X have simply drawn attention to something announced by HMRC or otherwise in the public domain.

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
23rd Jan 2015 18:03

Valid

Personally I think this was a valid article, and highlights the jobsworthy nature of HMRC.  Anyone not born in a monkey cage would have called up to sort out the problem with the form, not carried on blindly.

Probably the worst case I have dealt with in the past 4 years concerned a mentally ill person whose brother had had PoA for 20 years and the brother was my client.  HMRC had "mixed his record" with someone living 200 miles away who happened to have a similar name.  After 12 months of threats the brother had paid over £3k in tax that was not due, at which point I came in.

Despite me giving HMRC more or less copper-bottomed evidence in writing about what had happened after 2 months, their IT system continued to deny it for another 6 until I raised a formal Complaint and Compensation Case, at which point they gave up and admitted their error.

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By [email protected]
23rd Jan 2015 18:19

Complain to the Ombudsman

Years ago I had a bank account which earned a bit of interest for me.  The bank included me on its report (to its own tax office) of people to whom it had paid interest.  The bank's tax office passed the information on to my local tax office who sent me a form asking for my tax reference.  When I completed and returned it, my local tax office did two things.  First, they put me on their index system so that they would never have to trouble me again, and secondly they passed on the information (about my bank interest) to my own tax office so that they could check my tax return.

I suppose I should have complained to the Pariamentary Commissioner for Administration that I was being victimised by the tax office asking for my tax reference and I should have claimed compensation for the trauma of receiving a buff envelope.  I should also have invoiced the Revenue for the time it took me to fill in the form.  Instead, I thought it was a perfectly reasonable approach and gave it no further thought.  We didn't have AccountingWeb in those days.

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By billgilcom
23rd Jan 2015 18:53

wow
You must be an old cynic like me when the Section 17 bank returns were done manually on a bit of paper and transferred all round the country to check for tax return omissions
Now the computers match you up electronically and highlight you to the tax risk teams looking to get you into the "buff envelope" tax investigation crowd

And you must have been wealthy if it was pre 2006

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By [email protected]
23rd Jan 2015 19:17

Will Pro Bono Publico lead to a buff envelope?

Yes, it was a long time ago and I'm now long retired.  The only tax stuff I do nowadays is my own return and those of a dozen or so friends and family members.  I never charge - they usually put something in the charity box - but they always like me to complete the 'Do you have a tax advisor?' with a 'Yes' and then give my name and address.  Will the HMRC computer match these up and check my personal return to ensure that I've declared my earnings as a tax practitioner and then report me to the tax-risk team when they find I've reported nothing?  Will they believe me when I tell them that I don't charge because I'm very wealthy (in my dreams)?

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By billgilcom
24th Jan 2015 18:57

and the final twist.....
Pro bono doesn't absolve you from the repercussions of providing tax advice to individuals (whether friends or not).

Why do they insist on your name being put as adviser? Is there something they are trying to hide OR worse if it all goes wrong are they going to point the finger at their tax adviser.

Ok tuppence worth from one old "charging"cynic to another very kind and "unpaid" old cynic. Thought - are you registered with HMRC as a tax adviser and what do you do re MLRegs....

I trust that none of them charge fees against their income for their unpaid tax adviser.

Ok jumping back in my box.

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By [email protected]
24th Jan 2015 22:10

Time tohang up the halo

Thanks for that.  I think I'll avoid including my details next year.  

My cronies are nearly all retired like me, but those whose Tax Returns I'm involved with are a bit Revenue-phobic because they each have some little feature which makes their Return slightly less routine.  One worked abroad most of his life and his main pension comes from overseas, another has a furnished holiday let in France, another has regular chargeable events.  It's mostly stuff that can go in online through HMRC's website, and technically, I guess I'm hand-holding rather than submitting returns.  Things that are blindingly clear and simple to you and me seem to frighten the pants off some and are a baffling mystery to others.  

I'm not registered, but HMRC still send me copies of communications where my chums asked them to do so through 64-8.  But I don't want to spend my declining years sewing mailbags.

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