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Cloud concerns
Extracting content is something you will need to ask your vendor about when you first set up with them. Always ensure you have a vendor that lets you do this, as the data is yours, and not theirs, he added.
Not necessarily so.
Some while ago there was a detailed report in the New Scientist magazine. The federal authorities for whatever reason had shut down and taken over a cloud facility provider. A U.S.businessman applied to the authorities to retrieve important business data. The US authorities refused. The US government claim was that once data had been stored on the cloud, it became the property of the company to whom the storage facility belongs. Keep in mind that the "Cloud" is in reality just an enormous storage disk) The legal argument was /is that property law deals with tangible objects. The Storage disc is a tangible object on which the information is stored, therefore that information belongs to the owner of the disc. (Questions of abuse of copyright and or privacy are separate issues). In which case the US government was in order denying access to the data. At least one U.K. legal expert agreed with the US argument.
I stress the case was solely to do with who owned the data, the businessman was an innocent victim of the US government's actions.
I have not yet found out what happened at the conclusion of the case. I enquired of Sage, Digita, and IBM. (I am /have been a customer of all three companies)
Despite reminders, I did not get any reply telling me I was being paranoid or similar. In fact I have not received any reply at all to my asking about this.
"no reply" to a polite enquiry on his headed notepaper, from an accountant, that is worrying.
Keep in mind that the vendor may not be the legal owner of the tangible Cloud facility. He may simply be leasing storage space thereon.
The only proper answer to this question is one which quotes verifiable legal opinion. Anything is is just gossip.
Cloud security concerns
Hi David - I have some guidance that I am able to send you which outlines the response to concerns that we often hear from those in professional services. Please PM me or email [email protected] and I can send them across to you. thanks!
Dear petra
I will email you separate from this message.
Nevertheless, this is not a question of "Concerns"
It is a question requiring an answer good in law
The answer should come from an expert legal authority (If there are such things that really exist)
Who owns the data in the cloud?
We are not talking of abuse of copyright or breach of confidentiality. Those are separate distinct issues, ask "Sony".
Ownership of the data stored on the physical tangible storage facilities operated and owned by the prime "Cloud" service providers.
No waffle please, an opinion to be relied on in a court of law is required.
Ask Microsoft's lawyers, get them to put it in writing and sign for it.
.
Response
Hello @David. I’ve discussed this with the team and we are clear in our contracts on who data belongs to. Hopefully the below provides you with the information you were looking for and, of course, these are references to legally binding contracts between Microsoft and the relevant customer.:
In a typical cloud services contract, a user will retain all rights in and ownership of their data. For an example of where this is set out in a Microsoft contract, see section 3.1 of the Microsoft Services Agreement, which is Microsoft’s main consumer agreement:
“Who owns my Content that I put on the Services? You do. Some Services enable you to communicate with others and share or store various types of files, such as photos, documents, music and video. The contents of your communications and your files are your “Content” and, except for material that we license to you that may be incorporated into your own Content (such as clip art), we don't claim ownership of the Content you provide on the Services. Your Content remains your Content, and you're responsible for it. We strongly advise you to make regular back up copies of your Content.
Another example can be found under the heading, ‘Use of Customer Data’ in the Microsoft Online Services Terms, which contains Microsoft’s key commercial cloud terms:
“As between the parties, Customer retains all right, title and interest in and to Customer Data. Microsoft acquires no rights in Customer Data, other than the rights Customer grants to Microsoft to provide the Online Services to Customer.”
Links to referenced documents
Microsoft services agreement: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/microsoft-services-agreement
I am unable to post these above for some reason!
Online services terms: http://www.microsoftvolumelicensing.com/Downloader.aspx?DocumentId=8248
Dear Petra- a parable
Thank you for your responses. I apologise for not replying sooner.I had the Income Tax Return season to contend with.
Ever so gently, I think you miss the point.
Two guys were on a safari holiday. One evening Tom says to Dick, "It is such a lovely evening, I think I will go for a stroll around about". Dick replies, "OK, but take your rifle with you"
Tom ripostes: "It is OK, I am a vegetarian"
To which Dick replies; "Yes, but, does the lion know that?".
This is not a matter regarding an opinion of a Microsoft contract.
A Federal Agency is reported to have claimed in court that the data in the cloud is no longer owned by the originator, it is owned by the owner of the "Disk" on which it is stored.
This has nothing to do with copyright or data protection, or confidentiality.
In essence the government of the USA has claimed in court that once I store data on the cloud. In real terms this essentially means on a mega-disk storage facility located "Gawd knows where", physical ownership of the data passes to the owner of the mega-disk.
In which case the US Government claimed in court that as the new owner of the storage facility, it was entitled to refuse access. We are not here speaking of naughty pictures. We are speaking of regular commercial information needed for the guy's business.
I am not yet senile, I have been in the accountancy business since 1961.(well maybe that is enough to drive me potty) Unfortunately through the operation of Murphy's law I have misplaced the issue in which the two page report of the case appeared. I now think it was in 2013.
What concerns me is that fact that nobody has come back to me and said I am wrong. Not Sage, not you, not Digita, not IBM. not CCH, et al.
I do get suspicious when the replies to my letters are a resounding silence.
So, I ask you again: What is Microsoft's lawyer's reply, on this USA government claim?
I do assure you it is not for any ulterior motive. I do not use the cloud, and tell my clients to beware, except and unless a clear answer is forthcoming from a reputable source.