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Expert insight on providing tech advice to clients

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19th Dec 2014
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Last week, Microsoft experts joined AccountingWEB, head of Yellowspring IT and chartered accountant Paul Rolison and IT consultant at Kelly Solutions Paul Kelly, for a live chat on providing tech advice to clients. 

The chat is still available to read through retrospectively. However we've picked out some of the best bits, and summarised them for you below.

Why provide IT services?

Some AccountingWEB members had queries about accountants providing IT services in the first place. James Reeves asked why clients would come to an accountant rather than an IT consultant, confident they could offer specialist advice. 

Mark Deakin, Microsoft, advised that accountants should keep up to date with technology so when they do get asked by clients, they can at least signpost them in the right direction. 

"As a side note, accountants can use the technology themselves to understand its benefits. This helps them pass on some advice to their clients," he said. 

​Microsoft's Petra Young also added that the company has a lot of accountants asking how to keep up to date with technology as clients are requesting guidance - so the demand is already out there. 

​One accountant who has harnessed giving IT advice to its full potential is Rolison. He said that the approach with IT is very similar to that of giving accounting and tax advice.

"You need to understand the business to provide the right advice. In the same way that the accounting, tax and commercial advice a business needs has to be matched by the accountant, the IT advisor must draw from the wealth of experience and the huge range of technology to find the mix of solutions that match and fit the business," he said.

"The key is about the relationship a business owner has with their advisors. IT is often seen as a dark art and business owners need people they trust in the first instance."

And in the beginning, sometimes general knowledge of technology is all you need. Where you can't answer a question is the point where you refer them to a reliable IT provider with which you have partnered up.

However if you are going to give advice yourself, there is personal indemnity insurance that is specific to the industry. Or as Young says, your professional body may have a partnership with an insurer that can help on this one - and it also depends on the contact you have with the client. 

How to find a reliable IT provider 

Often, Kelly explained, this could be your own IT consultant or provider if your firm has one. 

Rolison added that the IT industry is "awash" with accreditations that are confusing for those unfamiliar. However the Microsoft Partner accreditation is one he has found as it is 'policed' by Microsoft in a number of ways.

In addition, don't be afraid to look for and have conversations with more than one IT provider to start with. Think long term - as with IFAs, lawyers and banking contacts, relationship is key here, Martyn White from TechQuarters suggested.

Providing IT advice beyond accounting packages 

Some members had questions about providing IT advice beyond the realms of accounting packages. 

But, as Deakin suggested, if someone asks and you've got the right skills, it cannot hurt to exceed the expectations of  the client - in areas such as data security, etc where you may already have some expertise.

Accountants can score really highly in the area of accounting packages too. Most IT providers don't have accounting skills and acting as a signpost for good advice at a minimum, Kelly says, is key in this situation.

Cloud concerns

A large part of accountants and clients' technology concerns nowadays centres around cloud. One member had a question about obtaining data from the cloud when you, for example, end a relationship with a vendor - and also about how the data is backed up.

Deakin suggested that regarding back-up, this will depend on the kind of data. Most cloud providers, like Microsoft, he said, will be doing backups anyway. The question is therefore who is more likely to lose the data? A user with a USB key or the vendor with many data centres?

Extracting content is something you will need to ask your vendor about when you first set up with them. Always ensure you have a vendor that lets you do this, as the data is yours, and not theirs, he added.

What professional certifications do you recommend?

For accountants wishing to give their own advice, accounting software and Excel are both a good start. IT is a broad church, Rolison explained, and focusing on a limited number of areas in this instance is the right thing to do. 

"You will be well aware of the differing levels of skills that users of Excel have and customers can benefit greatly from guidance in this area that is linked to their specific business," he said. 

In-house or outsourced?

There appeared to be a debate between accountants considering whether to provide their own in-house advice and those who preferred to outsource it completely. 

The experts agreed that it was dependent on the complexity that clients require as well as the situation or type of advice. Partnering up with an outsourced provider in any instance provides a "safety net" however.

​Winning over firm members resilient to change

This is something Rolison said he has seen throughout the years. There are a number of arguments and ways around those resilient to change, but the best way is to demonstrate why you need to provide this type of advice and get to grips with IT more. Once the business benefits are clear, then it will be easier to win them over.

Parting thoughts 

Also mentioned in the thread was AccountingWEB members Paul Scholes' comment on an earlier Any Answers thread: 

"If you are happy just adding up and ticking boxes for clients all day long then rock on, but that doesn't mean we should all stay locked in that box and should not try and help clients with other stuff."

Therefore if there is client demand for IT advice, there is no harm in exploring one of the several options available to dip your toe into the water - albeit carefully. 

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By David Gordon FCCA
19th Dec 2014 12:01

Cloud concerns

 

 Extracting content is something you will need to ask your vendor about when you first set up with them. Always ensure you have a vendor that lets you do this, as the data is yours, and not theirs, he added.

 Not necessarily so.

 Some while ago there was a detailed report in the New Scientist magazine. The federal authorities for whatever reason had shut down and taken over a cloud facility provider. A  U.S.businessman  applied to the authorities to retrieve important business data. The US authorities refused. The US government claim was that once data had been stored on the cloud, it became the property of the company to whom the storage facility belongs. Keep in mind that the "Cloud" is in reality just an enormous storage disk) The legal argument was /is that property law deals with tangible objects. The Storage disc is a tangible object on which the information is stored, therefore that information belongs to the owner of the disc. (Questions of abuse of copyright and or privacy are separate issues). In which case the US government was in order denying access to the data. At least one U.K. legal expert agreed with the US argument.

I stress the case was solely to do with who owned the data, the businessman was an innocent victim of the US government's actions.

 I have not yet found out what happened at the conclusion of the case. I enquired of Sage, Digita, and IBM. (I am /have been a customer of all three companies)

Despite reminders, I did not get any reply telling me I was being paranoid or similar. In fact I have not received any reply at all to my asking about this.

 "no reply" to a polite enquiry on his headed notepaper, from an accountant, that is worrying.

 Keep in mind that the vendor may not be the legal owner of the tangible Cloud facility. He may simply be leasing storage space thereon.

 The only proper answer to this question is one which quotes verifiable legal opinion. Anything is is just gossip.

 

 

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By Petra@Microsoft Small Business
06th Jan 2015 15:32

Cloud security concerns

Hi David - I have some guidance that I am able to send you which outlines the response to concerns that we often hear from those in professional services.  Please PM me or email [email protected] and I can send them across to you.  thanks!

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By David Gordon FCCA
06th Jan 2015 16:01

Dear petra

 I will email you separate from this message.

 Nevertheless, this is not a question of "Concerns"

 It is a question requiring an answer good in law

The answer should come from an expert legal authority (If there are such things that really exist)

  Who owns the data in the cloud?

 We are not talking of abuse of copyright or breach of confidentiality. Those are separate distinct issues, ask "Sony".

 Ownership of the data stored on the physical tangible storage facilities operated and owned by the prime "Cloud" service providers.

 No waffle please, an opinion to be relied on in a court of law is required.

 Ask Microsoft's lawyers, get them to put it in writing and sign for it.

 

 

 

.

 

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By Petra@Microsoft Small Business
02nd Feb 2015 14:11

Response
Hello @David. I’ve discussed this with the team and we are clear in our contracts on who data belongs to. Hopefully the below provides you with the information you were looking for and, of course, these are references to legally binding contracts between Microsoft and the relevant customer.:

In a typical cloud services contract, a user will retain all rights in and ownership of their data. For an example of where this is set out in a Microsoft contract, see section 3.1 of the Microsoft Services Agreement, which is Microsoft’s main consumer agreement:

“Who owns my Content that I put on the Services? You do. Some Services enable you to communicate with others and share or store various types of files, such as photos, documents, music and video. The contents of your communications and your files are your “Content” and, except for material that we license to you that may be incorporated into your own Content (such as clip art), we don't claim ownership of the Content you provide on the Services. Your Content remains your Content, and you're responsible for it. We strongly advise you to make regular back up copies of your Content.

Another example can be found under the heading, ‘Use of Customer Data’ in the Microsoft Online Services Terms, which contains Microsoft’s key commercial cloud terms:

“As between the parties, Customer retains all right, title and interest in and to Customer Data. Microsoft acquires no rights in Customer Data, other than the rights Customer grants to Microsoft to provide the Online Services to Customer.”

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By Petra@Microsoft Small Business
02nd Feb 2015 14:12

Links to referenced documents

Microsoft services agreement: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/microsoft-services-agreement 

I am unable to post these above for some reason!

 

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By David Gordon FCCA
02nd Feb 2015 16:17

Dear Petra- a parable

 

 Thank you for your responses. I apologise for not replying sooner.I had the Income Tax Return season to contend with.

Ever so gently, I think you miss the point.

 Two guys were on a safari holiday. One evening Tom says to Dick, "It is such a lovely evening, I think I will go for a stroll around about". Dick replies, "OK, but take your rifle with you"

 Tom ripostes: "It is OK, I am a vegetarian"

 To which Dick replies; "Yes, but, does the lion know that?".

 This is not a matter regarding an opinion of a Microsoft contract.

A Federal Agency is reported to have claimed in court that the data in the cloud is no longer owned by the originator, it is owned by the owner of the "Disk" on which it is stored.

 This has nothing to do with copyright or data protection, or confidentiality.

In essence the government of the USA has claimed in court that once I store data on the cloud. In real terms this essentially means on a mega-disk storage facility located "Gawd knows where", physical ownership of the data passes to the owner of the mega-disk.

In which case the US Government claimed in court that as the new owner of the storage facility, it was entitled to refuse access. We are not here speaking of naughty pictures. We are speaking of regular commercial information needed for the guy's business.

 I am not yet senile, I have been in the accountancy business since 1961.(well maybe that is enough to drive me potty)  Unfortunately through the operation of Murphy's law I have misplaced the issue in which the two page report of the case appeared. I now think it was in 2013.

What concerns me is that fact that nobody has come back to me and said I am wrong. Not Sage, not you, not Digita, not IBM. not CCH, et al. 

 I do get suspicious when the replies to my letters are a resounding silence.

 So, I ask you again: What is Microsoft's lawyer's reply, on this USA government claim?

 I do assure you it is not for any ulterior motive. I do not use the cloud, and tell my clients to beware, except and unless a clear answer is forthcoming from a reputable source.

 

 

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