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PAC criticises Treasury over Queen's finances

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28th Jan 2014
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The Parliamentary Accounts Committee (PAC) criticised the Treasury’s financial management after revealing that the Queen’s Household ran up a deficit in 2012-13.

In its report on the Sovereign Grant this week, the committee identified several areas where the Royal Household and Treasury “failed” in their financial management and planning.

“The Queen has not been served well by the Household and by the Treasury, which is responsible for effective scrutiny of the Household’s financial planning and management,” said committee chair Margaret Hodge.

“We believe that The Treasury has a duty to be actively involved in reviewing the Household’s financial planning and management – and it has failed to do so.”

The report looked into the administration of the first year of the new Sovereign Grant arrangement, which replaced the old civil list in April 2012.

By collecting a system of different payments with one grant that is overseen by the Treasury and vetted by the National Audit Office, the sovereign grant had strengthened accountability, according to the report. But the increased scrutiny made life somewhat more challenging for the Queen's finance director, Sir Alan Reid, the former KPMG partner who now has the title of Keeper of the Private Purse and treasurer to the Queen.

The grant was worth £31m in 2012-13 and pays for the Queen’s programme of official duties and covers staff costs, palace maintenance and travel costs. The grant was supplemented by £11.6m of income, but the gross income of £42.6m was exceeded by expenditures of £44.9 m.

This meant Sir Alan had to draw down £2.3m from its £3.3m reserve fund, leaving a “historically low” £1m balance, the MPs found.

Planning and managing budgets for the longer term should be top of the Household’s list of priorities, according to the PAC, which questioned Sir Alan extensively last October about his cost controls, spending priorities and handling of the reserves.

The Royal Household’s reserves stood at a high of £35m in 2001, but  under a 10-year freeze on the civil list this was intended to be spent by the end of 2010.

“The reserve was not really meant to be there,” the accountant told MPs.

“Longer term, we would like to build up a modest reserve, but as long as we have a property backlog, we do not anticipate building up a reserve of more than about 5% of the annual level of the grant,” he said.

This proved to be another area that drew criticism from the MPs.

In March 2012, around 40% of the royal estate was deemed below acceptable condition. That situation is likely to be worse, Hodge said, due to a growing maintenance backlog.

Her solution was for the Royal Household to generate more income and reduce costs to “do more with less” - a demand that will be familiar to many finance managers.

Sir Alan Reid had told the MPs the Royal Household had cut its net costs by 16% since 2007-8,  11% of which was done by increasing income and 5% by reducing expenditure.

But Hodge said it could do more to cut costs.

The PAC made three recommendations for the Household and Treasury to step up to the mark in its eyes in handling finances more efficiently:

  • It should ensure “sufficient commercial expertise”was in place to make the most of opportunities for both increasing income and reducing costs
  • It should speed up its property maintenance plan and produce an overall estimate of the cost of repairs needed to bring the estate back to target condition
  • It should rebuild sufficient reserves to cover unforeseen contingencies.

When questioned by the PAC, Reid said last year’s increased spending was partly due to the Queen’s diamond jubilee.

He defended the handling of accounts, pointing to savings that included three years of staff pay control and increased income generation by 54% in five years has allowed them to function.

Treasury officer of accounts Paula Diggle also answered some of the MPs’ criticisms, explaining that she and the Royal Household discussed the budget before the year started and reviewed progress against management accounts several times during the course of the year.

“The agreed changes to the budget have been switching allocations such as using savings on the travel budget to enable more spending on property maintenance,” she wrote to the committee.

“They are so modest because the relationship I operate with the household is one of no surprises, so that business may proceed efficiently. Among the areas we have also debated, often more than once, are the cost of the Royal Family’s visits programme, numbers of staff, plans for repairs and renovations, reserves policy and so on.”

Replies (78)

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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 10:54

Shocking

Or they could just suggest she lives in an appropriately sized home like the rest of us.

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By carnmores
29th Jan 2014 11:13

chatman has issues - breaking news...

i saw these numpties on the parliamentary channel they really need a kick up the bckside - they had no idea what building repairs would cost and had no budget doh

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By Andy Reeves
29th Jan 2014 11:25

Bedroom tax

Should we apply the same rules to the Royal Family as to any other benefit claimants.

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By hiu612
29th Jan 2014 11:30

Republicans

£31m grant to keep the monarchy, or become a republic and take on a president and become more like the US. . . Money well spent.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Dutchnick
29th Jan 2014 15:58

President Kinnock, now that would have been a winner! Hard to justify the Royals on democratic terms but they work and are popular and for a couple of quid a year they are pretty good value.

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Replying to mikesloper:
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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 16:05

More on the royals

Dutchnick wrote:
Hard to justify the Royals on democratic terms
Agreed.

Dutchnick wrote:
but they work
In what sense?

Dutchnick wrote:
for a couple of quid a year they are pretty good value.
It is not a couple of quid a year; it is millions. How could it be good value, when we could pay someone to do the same job for £60k pa?
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By hiu612
29th Jan 2014 11:30

Republicans

£31m grant to keep the monarchy, or become a republic and take on a president and become more like the US. . . Money well spent.

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By carnmores
29th Jan 2014 11:34

@Andy

no , and perhaps you would want to keep working well into your 90s like DoE.

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 11:39

Working? Really?

carnmores wrote:
no , and perhaps you would want to keep working well into your 90s like DoE.

"working"?

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Time for change
By Time for change
29th Jan 2014 11:42

The choice between

Her Majesty and the likes of Margaret Hodge?

There is no contest in my humble opinion. Why, oh why, is Madam Hodge, so high profile? She's an MP at the end of the day, no more and no less.

I have absolute admiration for the Royal Family, without which, we would be just another island.

AWEB- you could do with the old smell checker for the headline? But you're all tresure's aren't you?

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By Andy Reeves
29th Jan 2014 11:51

Working my [***]!


If that is what you call "working", then I would be happy to continue until my dying breath.

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Time for change
By Time for change
29th Jan 2014 11:54

One of the joys of living where we do.....

we're all entitled to our own opinions.

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Replying to Jane S-D:
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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 12:00

Equality?

Time for change wrote:
One of the joys of living where we do.....we're all entitled to our own opinions.

Although not all equally entitled to propagate them.
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Replying to Jane S-D:
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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 12:19

Right to an opinion

Time for change wrote:
we're all entitled to our own opinions.

English historian, G.M. Young, said that schools should teach: "a man has no more right to an opinion for which he cannot account than to a pint of beer for which he cannot pay"

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By Ian McTernan CTA
29th Jan 2014 12:18

Hodge sound bites

Another headline grabbing sound bite from spinmaster Hodges, attacking the Royal finances.

By the way, anyone who thinks the Royals have an easy life, try checking out how many engagements they are required to attend per annum, and how much income they generate for the country.  Opting out or retiring isn't really an option either...

On top of this, the Sovereign Estate generates a lot more money, but the Royals only receive (as from next year) 15% of the income (previously the figure was a set amount) with the rest being pocketed by the Govt.

Attacking the repairs backlog when there isn't the budget for them?  Then criticising the fact the repairs have not been done?

The royal household does need a shake up, as too many have been in position for too long, but what it really needs is a decent budget fit for the modern world.  They should draw up a full list of everything that needs doing or will need doing for the next 5 years and ask Hodges to approve the full £100m or more that will be required, and she can personally oversee the entire budget and run the repair operation, and be fully responsible for any over shooting of costs.

But like most of Labour, they are good at soundbites and criticism but terrible at actually running things, so they will continue to yap away while the real world gets things done.

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By k743snx
29th Jan 2014 13:35

Royal finances

Sounds to me like a case of the House of Pots calling the Queen Kettle black.

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By Michael C Feltham
29th Jan 2014 17:36

Hold Hard!

There is, inevitably, a significant conflation of argument herein...

HM The Queen's personal wealth is estimated at around $500,000,000.

http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/royal/queen-elizabeth...

Until quite recently, the Duchy of Lancaster enjoyed the absolute right to seize property when the owner dies intestate: which happens quite often in the UK.

Whilst I did much respect Her Majesty, I do not and cannot have any respect for the legion of leeches and hanger on'ers by which she is surrounded and draw their living from the Queen's Purse.

Does Her Majesty really need Balmoral, Sandringham, Buck House, Windsor Castle, St. James's Palace et al, to survive?

Britain is presently suffering the result of utter slavering socio-economic incompetence, from alleged, politicians since Churchill. And as a consequence, the whole fabric of the nation state is crumbling at an accelerating rate.

Do we really need parades of "chocolate box" soldiers?

From my perspective, a resounding no.

It is surely time to forget the heady days of empire and create a robust democracy suitable to forge forwards in the 21st siecle.

Sadly, and I speak as a robust monarchist of years gone by, any worthy respect one might have enjoyed for the sanctity and value of monarchy was destroyed and adulterated by a series of lightweights, from Diana, thru Sarah Ferguson and the rest who behaved and behave as if they are celebs.

The essence of Noblesse Obligé is forgotten: and the essential dignity which ought to be part of the ethic.

As for Mrs Hodge: a most interesting case!

A woman who trumpets indignation about tax avoidance and other supposed travesties, but who simultaneously personally benefits hugely from the inheritance of her late father's tax avoiding transnational steel company............

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businesslatestnews/9668396/Margaret-H...

 

 

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By LesDes
29th Jan 2014 14:17

Bedroom Tax

As technically all the Royal Family are on benefits should we consider applying the "bedroom tax to them she must have 50 or 60 bedrooms - that would help the Country!!

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By Adam Syddall
29th Jan 2014 14:30

God Save The Queen

Chatman,

Would you really want a here today gone tommorow politician as our head of state? The queen and her family are respected and admired throughout the world - which is more than can be said for some of our more recent Prime Ministers and world leaders. The fact you are quoting two journalists having a chin wag on a notoriously left-wing television channel somewhat gives your game away. 

The UK is the 8th biggest tourist destination in the world. Overseas visitors spend around £20 billion a year in this country and contribute around £6 billion a year to the exchequer. Foreign visitors tend to focus on London for some reason?......Combined with domestic tourism the industry is worth £127 billion a year.  

Just how much of this is attributable to the Royal Family is of course unquantifiable but I would suggest a £35 million grant to keep the royal family functioning is actually inadequate. The queen alone carries out 450 royal engagements a year in her late eighties.

Can I suggest you are a misguided ideologue. Mine's a bitter, thanks.

 

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Replying to ads1188:
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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 15:51

@Adam Syddall re claims about the royal family

Adam Syddall wrote:
Would you really want a here today gone tommorow [sic] politician as our head of state?

Is this a serious question? What is your point?

Adam Syddall wrote:
The queen and her family are respected and admired throughout the world
Have you any evidence to support this claim?

Adam Syddall wrote:
The fact you are quoting two journalists having a chin wag on a notoriously left-wing television channel somewhat gives your game away.

This is the BBC we are talking about - the state broadcaster. Notoriously left wing? Again, can you provide any evidence for this claim?

Adam Syddall wrote:
The UK is the 8th biggest tourist destination in the world. Overseas visitors spend around £20 billion a year in this country and contribute around £6 billion a year to the exchequer. Foreign visitors tend to focus on London for some reason?......Combined with domestic tourism the industry is worth £127 billion a year. 

What has all this got to do with the monarchy?

Adam Syddall wrote:
Just how much of this is attributable to the Royal Family is of course unquantifiable

My point exactly, so why are you obfuscating the relevant facts with it?

Adam Syddall wrote:
but I would suggest a £35 million grant to keep the royal family functioning is actually inadequate.
Yes, I know you would, but unless you can actually offer some evidence in support of your opinion, it is of no use to anyone.

Adam Syddall wrote:
Can I suggest you are a misguided ideologue.

Of course you can, but unless you have some sort of argument to back up your suggestion, who would you bother wasting your own and everybody else's time?

Can I suggest that you are completely unable to support your outrageous claims, and that if you were able to do so, you would have done? Really, did you not read my quote from G M Young?

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Replying to ads1188:
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By chatman
29th Jan 2014 19:56

Mine's a bitter?

Adam Syddall wrote:
Mine's a bitter, thanks.

I must admit, I have no idea what that is about.

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By ShirleyM
29th Jan 2014 17:32

The £35M does not include security

Security is paid on top of the £35M. I wonder what that costs, and what else we pay for? All the pageantry is extra to the £35M, and it's that which brings in the tourists, and also the historic side of Britain and it's architecture.

How many of you who go to Athens, or other places, go to see their monarchy. That's right .. no-one. How many of you go to London to see the Queen?

We don't need them, and while the Queen has been a good ambassador for Britain I'm afraid the next lot will be a worse option than any politician. We can get rid of politicians but we will be stuck with useless Royals forever.

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By carnmores
29th Jan 2014 21:26

talk about off topic!

that used to be a chocolate bar

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By listerramjet
29th Jan 2014 22:33

Shame on you Hodge

Personally I thought this was a disgusting and ill thought out report.  The best response I have seen is here

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jacobreesmogg/100257266/the-queen-didn...

Also puts paid to the falsehoods about what the Monarchy costs as set out in the comments here.  Having and expressing opinions is fine, but at least check your facts first!

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Replying to North East Accountant:
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By listerramjet
29th Jan 2014 23:31

hello chapman

we are never going to agree - but I would at least expect you to not take my comments out of context.

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By Andy Reeves
30th Jan 2014 11:50

Goodbye Queenie

Frankly, the argument as to whether or not the Royal Family is value for money (and my opinion is that it isn't) is irrelevant to the democratic issue. It is the 21st century, not the 15th, and having to treat some citizens (the Windsors) as better than others by virtue of their family lineage is abhorrent.

As regards the suggested "personal fortune" of the queen/family, just how do you think they got that in the first place? They stole/requisitioned/taxed it from others. It isn't hers/theirs, it is ours.

The UK does not need the Royal Family for tourism, as people come to see the architecture, not the people (who aren't on show at home anyway). The French managed to solve their monarchy problem quite well, yet visitors still flock to Versailles, etc.

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Time for change
By Time for change
30th Jan 2014 14:54

You really couldn't make it up,could you?

 

The French managed to solve their monarchy problem quite well, yet visitors still flock to Versailles, etc

And, then they elected President Hollande. Enough said, I think?

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Replying to L Haldane:
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By Michael C Feltham
30th Jan 2014 15:02

Plus ca Change.........

Time for change wrote:

 

The French managed to solve their monarchy problem quite well, yet visitors still flock to Versailles, etc

And, then they elected President Hollande. Enough said, I think?

Who is not ensconced in the Elyse for life: accompanied by a host of his children, children's children, cousins, second cousins and the rest.

 

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Time for change
By Time for change
30th Jan 2014 15:32

Whilst I completely respect the views of many "opponents"

in this thread, why do so many people

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/10206708/Confidence-in-British-monarchy-at-all-time-high-poll-shows.html

still have so much (66%) faith in the present arrangement?

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By chatman
30th Jan 2014 16:21

Why do so many people support the status quo?

@ Time for change - Because the establishment propaganda machine is so powerful.

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Replying to Wanderer:
Time for change
By Time for change
30th Jan 2014 16:51

Is this based on conjecture

chatman wrote:

@ Time for change - Because the establishment propaganda machine is so powerful.

or, hard and fast evidence (source)?

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Replying to Cloudcounter:
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By chatman
30th Jan 2014 18:04

The power of the propaganda machine

Time for change wrote:
Is this based on conjecture

or, hard and fast evidence (source)?

A bit of both. Of course there can be no way of quantifying how much people are influenced by propaganda, but the amount of resources poured into it by regimes from Stalin to Hitler to the UK Labour and Conservative parties and their paymasters would indicate that those producing it believe that it works. The government obviously felt propaganda was effective in manipulating public opinion in 1984 when the BBC edited footage to make a police charge against striking miners look like the miners charging the police. Otherwise why would they have bothered?

Opinion polls show large falls in public support for the welfare state when a government runs a campaign against social security benefits, and charities for the disabled have reported increased attacks on the disabled since sickness benefit was targeted.

The Sun headline "It's The Sun wot won it", after the 1992 general election shows what Rupert Murdoch, one of the most powerful media magnates in the world thinks of the propaganda power of the media.

Having dealt with the power of the establishment-owned media, let's look at their reporting of the royal family. How often do we hear the option of a republic discussed? How often do we hear how wonderful the royal family is and how often do we hear criticism of them? Even of Prince Andrew? Monarchist view such as those on this thread are often heard in the mainstream media, but how often do you hear views resembling mine or those of Michael C Feltham, Andy Reeves or ShirleyM?

That is what has led me to the conclusion that support for the royal family is engineered by the establishment. Why else would people support them? This thread shows there are no good reasons for doing so.

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By ShirleyM
30th Jan 2014 16:46

If a Queen or King was so necessary, or profitable ..

... then every country would have one.

I didn't see France decide that they were better off when they had a Monarch, or any other country that got rid of theirs. Why not?

Australia have it right ... they borrow ours, don't pay for them, and can get rid whenever they want.

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Replying to Slim Freddie:
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By mbdx7ja2
04th Feb 2014 13:36

@ Shirley

ShirleyM wrote:

... then every country would have one.

I didn't see France decide that they were better off when they had a Monarch, or any other country that got rid of theirs. Why not?

Australia have it right ... they borrow ours, don't pay for them, and can get rid whenever they want.

Your argument makes little sense - you could say the same about the NHS - if it really was the envy of the world, why does no other country copy it?  I don't think the lack of copying really constitutes an argument here as you can't just bring an institution with a history of over 1,000 years into existence overnight.

And regarding France - it took them over 100 years post-revolution for a genuine movement to reinstate the monarchy (which was not simply supported by the few nobility, but a wider popular movement) to go away and the Republic to be cemented.  Germany lost their royal family when they lost WW1, and most other European countries I thought still have a monarchy.

 

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Replying to Glennzy:
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By Michael C Feltham
04th Feb 2014 14:26

Aye! There's the rub!

mbdx7ja2]</p> <p>[quote=ShirleyM wrote:

  Germany lost their royal family when they lost WW1, and most other European countries I thought still have a monarchy.

One of my much treasured research books, is titled "The Secrets of the Gotha"; which tabulates the European monarchy and includes a super family tree.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Secrets-Gotha-Private-Families-Europe/dp/1566190...

A Kindle version is available: read it!

Which shows how ALL European "Royals" are interrelated.

It was and what remains is still a franchise.

Michael Palin's priceless comments in Holy Grail sums it all up rather well.

Which in itself, is rather frightening: that we must turn to hugely cynical farce for effective pragmatism and sanity!

"Dennis: Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power
 derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
  ARTHUR:  Be quiet!
  DENNIS:  Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
  ARTHUR:  Shut up!
  DENNIS:  I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!"

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By Michael C Feltham
30th Jan 2014 17:53

Added to Which..........

The Royal Family are not even British!

Obviously, being called summat like Battenburg Saxe-Coburg von Gotha wouldn't have played too well in 1914.....

 

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By ShirleyM
31st Jan 2014 08:01

@Chatman

 The government obviously felt propaganda was effective in manipulating public opinion in 1984 when the BBC edited footage to make a police charge against striking miners look like the miners charging the police. Otherwise why would they have bothered?

I'm so glad you mentioned that. The police were quite brutal, but it was all hushed up by parliament & the police and the blame laid on the miners.

Just for clarity, I have nothing against the Queen. I am opposed to all hereditary titles. It is the 21st century, and being a monarch, or a Lord, or any other hereditary title or position, should not be bestowed on any person merely because of something their great great grandfather did, or was!

 

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Replying to mike120636:
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By chatman
31st Jan 2014 09:27

Inherited wealth and the something-for-nothing-culture

ShirleyM wrote:
being a monarch, or a Lord, or any other hereditary title or position, should not be bestowed on any person merely because of something their great great grandfather did, or was!

Same goes for wealth. Why should someone be rich just because their parents were?

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Replying to mike120636:
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By chatman
31st Jan 2014 09:30

More than just hushed up

ShirleyM wrote:

The government obviously felt propaganda was effective in manipulating public opinion in 1984 when the BBC edited footage to make a police charge against striking miners look like the miners charging the police. Otherwise why would they have bothered?

I'm so glad you mentioned that. The police were quite brutal, but it was all hushed up by parliament & the police and the blame laid on the miners

"hushed up" is an understatement Shirley; there was an active government-driven black propaganda campaign. Remember all those unfounded allegations against Arthur Scargill? And you can't get much more dishonest than doctoring footage and distributing it on the government TV channel.

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By User deleted
31st Jan 2014 09:23

Do away with honours list ...

In this age where a great many honours are simply political bribes and elevation to the Lord's is simply a standard thank you for [***] up the economy, it is probably time to call it a day with any annual honours list

By all means have 'one off' awards for bravery etc. but the annual round of baksheesh should probably stop; after all the entire process has become so devalued as to make it worthless

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By ShirleyM
31st Jan 2014 09:53

Too true, Chatman

Scargill has been vindicated regarding the 'secret hit list'.

I've suspected all along (but had no proof) that Maggie manouvered Scargill into national strike action, but the idiot was too blind to see it. She wanted to turn the UK population against the miners, and she succeeded. I wouldn't be surprised if she deliberately made the secret hit list known to Scargill.

It would be fair justice if all the other government lies, cheating, and dishonest manipulation of the facts were to come out into the open, too.The police were pretty lawless in those days, with the cover ups of the police actions during the miners strike and Hillsboro. I wonder who made the decision to suppress the truth?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By chatman
31st Jan 2014 10:01

Lawless police

ShirleyM wrote:
The police were pretty lawless in those days

Not like these days, as Ian Tomlinson, Jean Charles de Menezes and Stephen Lawrence would tell you if they were still alive. I mean they would never spend taxpayers money to infiltrate a legitimate environmental campaigning group or dedicate officers to fitting up Stephen Lawrence's friends would they?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By chatman
04th Feb 2014 15:35

Police Lawlessness

ShirleyM wrote:
The police were pretty lawless in those days

More on modern-day police lawlessness http://www.monbiot.com/2014/02/03/bring-it-on/

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By [email protected]
05th Feb 2014 16:16

Treason

Michael C Feltham, Andy Reeves, ShirleyM and Chatman. You all seem to have the same views with regards to the Monarchy. The way I see it, some of the things you are saying would be regarded as treason. If you don't like, leave the country and move to a state such as France, Italy or Greece and see how better theirs lives and Government's are. You should be proud of your heritage. Have you not got parents and grandparents that fought in a war for the good of our country, serving the Monarchy. How many soldiers would be willing to serve an ever changing government????? And what on earth has the miners strike got to do with the Monarchy???

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By chatman
05th Feb 2014 17:11

Treason in the interests of the country.

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
Michael C Feltham, Andy Reeves, ShirleyM and Chatman. You all seem to have the same views with regards to the Monarchy.
There's a lot of us about. You just don't hear our views represented on the news.

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
The way I see it, some of the things you are saying would be regarded as treason.
So what?

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
If you don't like, leave the country and move to a state such as France, Italy or Greece and see how better theirs lives and Government's are.
Why should I leave my country? Why can't they go back to Germany? OK, I accept Prince Harry doesn't have German roots, but the others do.

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
You should be proud of your heritage.
Why? I think you should be proud of things you have achieved, not things you inherited.

 

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
Have you not got parents and grandparents that fought in a war for the good of our country, serving the Monarchy.
My granddad fought in WWII to fight fascism, not to fight for the royal family. He fought the country that your beloved Saxe-Coburg-Gothas come from.

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
How many soldiers would be willing to serve an ever changing government?????
Exactly the same number as do currently. Our government does change, although not very noticeably, I admit.

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
And what on earth has the miners strike got to do with the Monarchy???
The link was the establishment-owned propaganda machine. Have a read of the thread.

Now, are there any pro-monarchy arguments on this thread that have not been comprehensively refuted? I assume all contributors are now republicans then.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By k743snx
06th Feb 2014 14:01

Treason

"If you don't like, leave the country and move to a state such as France, Italy or Greece and see how better theirs lives and Government's are".

Agreed, but you're picking on the wrong countries - I had North Korea in mind.

While our parliamentary system coupled with a Monarchy isn't perfect (MP expense scandal)?, I fail to see how a republic would be more financially transparent.

 

 

 

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By chatman
06th Feb 2014 14:22

North Korean Monarchy

k743snx wrote:
"If you don't like, leave the country and move to a state such as France, Italy or Greece and see how better theirs lives and Government's are".

Agreed, but you're picking on the wrong countries - I had North Korea in mind.

North Korea is effectively a Monarchy, ruled by the Kim dynasty.

k743snx wrote:
While our parliamentary system coupled with a Monarchy isn't perfect (MP expense scandal)?, I fail to see how a republic would be more financially transparent.

It may or may not be, but no-one has advanced financial transparency as an argument have they?

 

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By ShirleyM
05th Feb 2014 18:38

I would like to say ...

... exactly what chatman said.  :)

Heritage ... includes slavery, fox hunting, serfs, sexual discrimination, racism, and lots of other things we have got rid of (or are trying to). Let's bring the UK into the 21st century by getting rid of the monarchy.

I think we would be doing them a favour. I'm sure none of them really like having their 'duties' mapped out before they are even born, and am sure they would like to choose their own direction.

EDIT: by the way, speaking up against the monarchy is NOT treason. We speak for our country, which we love, We are not requesting the Queen be put to death. We just don't want a monarch .... any monarch .... whoever they may be.

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By chatman
06th Feb 2014 08:37

Help them back to work

ShirleyM wrote:
I think we would be doing them a favour.

I agree.We should help them into work. Idleness is good for no-one, and may well explain why Philip, Charles and Andrew are such bitter old men.

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By [email protected]
06th Feb 2014 09:52

What you two have said:

chatman PM | Wed, 05/02/2014 - 17:11 | Permalink

Why should I leave my country? Why can't they go back to Germany? OK, I accept Prince Harry doesn't have German roots, but the others do.

ShirleyM PM | Wed, 05/02/2014 - 18:38 | Permalink

... exactly what chatman said.  :)

Heritage ... includes slavery, fox hunting, serfs, sexual discrimination, racism, and lots of other things we have got rid of (or are trying to). Let's bring the UK into the 21st century by getting rid of the monarchy.

 

I assume you are wanting to get rid of every person in the country whose forefathers come from a foreign land? Is that not racism? Because that is what you are implying!

You mention bringing the UK into the 21st century, I think it’s you both woke up and realised that we are here. This is the 21st century, this is how it is, get on with it. Without the Monarchy you would have far less tourism which is the largest trade in this country, without that unemployment would certainly increase. Tourism is worth £127 billion a year, most of that attributed to the Monarchy and it costs us £31 million. In comparison, France spend £90 million on their president. How many people travel the globe to visit him?? And France’s unemployment level is far greater than ours!!!

 

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