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CT41G is often the first notification of the company UTR we receive, the new online registration requires the UTR to register. Isn't this going to be a bit chicken and egg? Or is there some new way of notifying the UTR at the time of registering with CH?
Either way in my experience we rarely have all the information and the client always needs to confirm various dates or references, so completing an online version sounds like a nightmare.
Does moving to electronic notification now mean the late registration penalty will be invoked more often?
UTR
I agree with Chris. The CT41G is our notification of the UTR. It is always a pain when the client deals with the CT41G themselves as you then find you havn't got the UTR. So how is it going to be communicated? Will there be a letter to the registered office in place of the form?
There is a letter
HMRC are now sending a letter to clients headed "information for new companies" and containing the UTR and reminding the new company of the need to notify commencement of trade
I always form new companies with our office as the registered address to make sure we get this, and transfer it to the clients' premises later on, if necessary.
Online Registration
I just had a quick shufy round the form, no easy task. It looks to me as if it is designed for the client to complete, there is an area called "add a delegate" which appears to relate to allowing agents to access the form.
I think this has been very badly thought out. I know from my own ex HMIT experience that the Revenue think agents and clients have clear communcation channels and the agent knows everything and is given all the information as soon as it is available. 15 years in practice tells me the opposite.
Another problem ...
I submit that this problem (and similar ones in the past) has come about because whoever is deciding procedure at HMRC has never worked on 'this side of the desk'. Otherwise they would know that withdrawing CT41 without instructions or links or consultation will make things difficult.
Its good that we have accountingweb to vent our anger! I wonder... does anyone from HMRC Working Together read the posts?
But why are we surprised? Any accountant/tax adviser listening to the Budget automatically thought 'hold on'...when the 'granny tax' and 'pasty tax' was announced.
Along a similar vein - has anyone else noticed this....go onto direct gov at this link
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_188740
and look under 'What happens next'
... the text states that when a member of a deceased's family registers a death (this can now be done online) directgov automatically sends notification to HMRC. If that person was a client then you will find that that name is deleted from your list of clients and you have to reauthorise for the 'new' deceased client.
Don't use it
I haven't looked at the form yet, but if it's useless or poorly designed there is no compulsion to use it, surely? Just notify HMRC by letter with the basic information needed such as date of commencement and date of accounting periods.
CT41G
Yes, I was told to do it online after I phoned HMRC but found I needed the UTR number which had not been sent by HMRC. They now have to send a letter with the UTR number shown. This is efficiency for you!!
Spare CT41G template
If anyone requires a spare CT41G which you can fill out Adobe Acrobat, I can email you one ... I tend to be pretty [***] with regards hoarding forms.
.
Thanks to the earlier post referred to in this article I have used the new procedure and its really easy now I know where to do it.
You just take the UTR number from the letter the client gets.
Less info is gathered, eg directors details are not requested.
8/10 for the form
0/10 for actually letting anyone know how to do it!
Why fix something that aint broke?
Why on earth did HMRC think it would be a good idea to withdraw the CT41G?
Online v Paper
Why on earth did HMRC think it would be a good idea to withdraw the CT41G?
I understand the problems expressed above, but I much prefer filling in forms online than on paper, which I then have to post. I think moving things online is a good thing.
lunatics running the asylum
Why on earth did HMRC think it would be a good idea to withdraw the CT41G?I understand the problems expressed above, but I much prefer filling in forms online than on paper, which I then have to post. I think moving things online is a good thing.
Moving things online is fine - if the system can cope ... But HMRC systems are designed to be difficult!!! A good example is the online 64-8, still involves pieces of paper (auth codes) being posted, and no PAYE or VAT office seems to be to see the online authorisations - and insist we file a paper 64-8 anyway!?!!!?!??!
Agree with BigBad Wolf
Moving things online is fine - if the system can cope ... But HMRC systems are designed to be difficult!!! A good example is the online 64-8, still involves pieces of paper (auth codes) being posted, and no PAYE or VAT office seems to be to see the online authorisations - and insist we file a paper 64-8 anyway!?!!!?!??!
Yes, that is irritating. I claim to be the client as a matter of course when calling HMRC, even if I can see the client on the portal; saves a lot of hassle.
Online Authorisation
the online 64-8, still involves pieces of paper (auth codes) being posted
or not!
Why?
I suspect it reduces postage and unoess they are again printing them at the ther end saves staff costs too
So now what are we supposed to do ...
... in the case of a body which is subject to CT (such as a club) which is not a company registered at Companies House and which has not yet been issued with a UTR by HMRC, the latter being as yet unaware of its existence (and never will be informed by Coy House as would be the case with a Ltd Coy)?
As I understand the position, we cannot do it online, because there is no UTR, and we cannot do it by CT41G because, er, it no longer exists.
With kind regards
Clint Westwood
Director's information
They might as well not ask for the director's information - as they anyway invariably ignored, (for setting up personal self-assessment), the directorship recorded on the CT41G.
CT41G still exists
See the posting on the CIOT website, which seems to explain what is happening:
http://www.tax.org.uk/tax-policy/newsdesk/2012/Regs_tax_comp_online
you gotta love it
Just had a new client call about her new company's UTR. How does she get it? She has a new PAYE reference, but they can't tell her the UTR, she has tried to ring the CT district, but guess what, no answer. She says she has customers insisting they need it before they will pay (yes i know!).
So is the notification lost? Is there a delay in sending these letters out, lack of paper perhaps?
No UTR, so no 64-8 yet. such is life..
Missing UTR's
This 'new' system starts with a UTR being sent to client on formation. That is where things are going wrong - my client and I are still waiting 3 weeks after formation of company. Invariably when the letter is eventually issued client puts it to one side etc etc.
I think Cloudcounter has the best idea.